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Thread: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

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    Default Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Lawmakers on Tuesday voted 24-4 to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham to establish a law enforcement department.

    The church says it needs its own police officers to keep its school as well as its more than 4,000 person congregation safe.

    Critics of the bill argue that a police department that reports to church officials could be used to cover up crimes.
    This is a very bad idea. Can you imagine Scientology using this as a precedent to ask that their security forces in Clearwater and LA be made into full police forces?

    I would also think that allowing a church to have government approval to form a police force with arrest powers would likely be deemed unconstitutional.
    Last edited by Enthetan; 12th April 2017 at 02:54 PM. Reason: typo
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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Wow, that sounds dangerous, indeed.

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    Patron with Honors tesseract's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Umm seriously, what the hell? What about separation of religion and state and so on and so forth?

    Unconstitutional much indeed??
    It sounds like something so absurd and dangerous that it is bound to get overthrown / ruled out by a higher authority shortly but I don't know where/how/who.
    Whatever you can say about this church in particular, doesn't that ruling indeed open the door widely for all sorts of devious cults and churches to grossly abuse it, a collective assumption which will inevitably lead others to protest and cry, unconstitutional?
    Curious and curiouser.
    I wonder how that will go down.
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    Gold Meritorious Sponsor HelluvaHoax!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthetan View Post
    Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.



    This is a very bad idea. Can you imagine Scientology using this as a precedent to ask that their security forces in Clearwater and LA be made into full police forces?

    I would also think that allowing a church to have government approval to form a police force with arrest powers would likely be deemed unconstitutional.

    Yes, an insane idea!

    Yet, there is ample precedent for cults who had their own cops or paramilitary forces. The first two that come to mind are the "Sturmabteilung" of Hitler's political party, aka the "brownshirts" or "storm troopers" that thuggishly beat/killed those who disagreed or even doubted the infallibility of Der Fuhrer.

    Another more recent example is the Nation of Islam's "FOI" (Fruit of Islam); the huge, glowering thugs that stare down everyone who is within eyesight of their infallible leader Farrakhan. It wasn't long ago that Farrakhan despatched them to commit murder of a previous NOI leader so that he could steal the reins and cash.

    How about Hubbard's "Guardian Office" or Miscavige's "OSA" thugs? They were likewise despatched to commit heinous human rights atrocities against anyone who Scientology's infallible sociopathic guru didn't care for. What are they, if not an internal "police force" that detained, arrested, imprisoned and/or kidnapped persons who the COS deemed to have committed "crimes".

    In my experience within Scientology, I can rather easily conclude that Hubbard/Miscavige certainly had HOPED to springboard their GO thugs into an elite terror police, in the tradition of Hitler's fanatical thugs. It is very fortunate, then, that Hubbard's "admin tech" never worked even one bit or he would have taken Rhodesia (and/or other countries) and built a truly formidable police force to carry out his nefarious acts of terrorism against innocent individuals. Think that's far-fetched? Think again. It's only Hubbard's/Miscavige's stunning incompetence that prevented them from doing so. If in doubt, simply remember how within their small sphere of absolute control ("the Apollo" or "Gold Base") staff were imprisoned in chain lockers, thrown overboard, forced to wade in a toxic feces-infested lake to "clean it out", physically assaulted & beaten, kidnapped, terrorized and much worse.

    Whew, didn't know that I would be ranting! LOL.


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    Diamond Invictus SP Type4_PTS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enthetan View Post
    The Alabama House has a similar bill it will be voting on.

    Hopefully they'll have more sense than the Senators!

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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    Yes, an insane idea!

    Yet, there is ample precedent for cults who had their own cops or paramilitary forces. The first two that come to mind are the "Sturmabteilung" of Hitler's political party, aka the "brownshirts" or "storm troopers" that thuggishly beat/killed those who disagreed or even doubted the infallibility of Der Fuhrer.

    Another more recent example is the Nation of Islam's "FOI" (Fruit of Islam); the huge, glowering thugs that stare down everyone who is within eyesight of their infallible leader Farrakhan. It wasn't long ago that Farrakhan despatched them to commit murder of a previous NOI leader so that he could steal the reins and cash.

    How about Hubbard's "Guardian Office" or Miscavige's "OSA" thugs? They were likewise despatched to commit heinous human rights atrocities against anyone who Scientology's infallible sociopathic guru didn't care for. What are they, if not an internal "police force" that detained, arrested, imprisoned and/or kidnapped persons who the COS deemed to have committed "crimes".

    In my experience within Scientology, I can rather easily conclude that Hubbard/Miscavige certainly had HOPED to springboard their GO thugs into an elite terror police, in the tradition of Hitler's fanatical thugs. It is very fortunate, then, that Hubbard's "admin tech" never worked even one bit or he would have taken Rhodesia (and/or other countries) and built a truly formidable police force to carry out his nefarious acts of terrorism against innocent individuals. Think that's far-fetched? Think again. It's only Hubbard's/Miscavige's stunning incompetence that prevented them from doing so. If in doubt, simply remember how within their small sphere of absolute control ("the Apollo" or "Gold Base") staff were imprisoned in chain lockers, thrown overboard, forced to wade in a toxic feces-infested lake to "clean it out", physically assaulted & beaten, kidnapped, terrorized and much worse.

    Whew, didn't know that I would be ranting! LOL.


    Good rant

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    Gold Meritorious Patron TheOriginalBigBlue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    My first thought was, this sounds like the Iranian Morality Police. What's good for the goose...

    But just to be provocative, whats to keep a wealthy Saudi or Scientology from buying or incorporating their own little town in some backwoods and creating their own police force? We think of police as being an official government agency as opposed to a private security force so how is it possible to create a police agency without minimally being an incorporated city?

    Apparently precedent has already been established with colleges.

    Of course, if the police do something to give cause for a lawsuit the city gets sued. If it's your own police agency then I assume you get sued so there would be a down side.

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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    I believe there are innumerable private police departments in the US: virtually all public universities, many hospitals, etc.

    I attended a major University of State Name school and there was a campus police department. All it means is that the local campus police are deputized, which means they can arrest you if you break the law on campus grounds.

    Doesn't mean they can make up laws to arrest you (though if you are breaking a university policy and refuse to leave grounds, they can arrest you for trespassing). Doesn't mean they can haul you off to a private jail or take you to a private court system. All they can do is detain you until the police arrive. They're glorified rent-a-cops.

    I'm not an expert in this area, but my understanding is that having a police department has pros/cons. Your officers have to be deputizable, so they have to be employable as police officers, which is a much higher standard than some public parking lot security guard, and obviously they cost more. You need to certified and audited, meet minimum standards, etc. And you take on more liability naturally. On the other hand, you can enforce the law more quickly, you can make arrests, and your officers can be armed (though whether or not you want to do that is a different consideration).

    I know of several large public health systems that have a private police force on their campus.

    From my experience it's a scale thing - if you have a lot of people and a large campus of buildings that requires constant security presence, it starts to make sense.

    This sounds to me like it's more like public safety than the Republican Guards. And regardless, there are already plenty of private police departments that are under effective church control: most large private religious universities and some large religious-affiliated health care campuses.

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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalBigBlue View Post
    My first thought was, this sounds like the Iranian Morality Police. What's good for the goose...

    But just to be provocative, whats to keep a wealthy Saudi or Scientology from buying or incorporating their own little town in some backwoods and creating their own police force? We think of police as being an official government agency as opposed to a private security force so how is it possible to create a police agency without minimally being an incorporated city?

    Apparently precedent has already been established with colleges.

    Of course, if the police do something to give cause for a lawsuit the city gets sued. If it's your own police agency then I assume you get sued so there would be a down side.


    I was thinking that, too.

    And it seems like anyone can hire cops on their off time for any event, etc.

    I always found that weird. Seems like a conflict of interest to me.
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    Default Re: Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lulu Belle View Post
    And it seems like anyone can hire cops on their off time for any event, etc.

    I always found that weird. Seems like a conflict of interest to me.


    Out of curiosity, I've asked someone who should know and apparently here such a thing is prohibited. Surprise, surprise.
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