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Thread: The end of scientology!

  1. #41

    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    I think as long as the cult has the official cloak of religion....DOJ won't touch it. (So that would have to get overthrown first, and I think it's not likely.) A few exceptions would include child abuse or murder. But things like hard labor in the SO or disconnection or predatory regging....what do they care? Government/law doesn't care that an adult daughter won't talk to her mother, e.g., that's just not an issue to them.
    I finally finished reading Going Clear this week and the author really emphasized child labour laws in California and at what age you can start work, operate certain machinery, etc. And as told by the author, there were dozens of SO kids in California operating machinery that they aren't old enough to use, and are working upwards of 70 hours a week (when law prohibits them from working more than 18 or so?) Can the DOJ not start there, citing child labour laws? Have a looksee around to see what children are working where and for how long...is that not a ball that could get rolled if the right people inquire about it?

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    Gold Meritorious Patron WildKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Rob View Post
    I finally finished reading Going Clear this week and the author really emphasized child labour laws in California and at what age you can start work, operate certain machinery, etc. And as told by the author, there were dozens of SO kids in California operating machinery that they aren't old enough to use, and are working upwards of 70 hours a week (when law prohibits them from working more than 18 or so?) Can the DOJ not start there, citing child labour laws? Have a looksee around to see what children are working where and for how long...is that not a ball that could get rolled if the right people inquire about it?
    I didn't think it was still being done (letting kids in the SO). Was that up to date info about the kids? If so, yeah, Child Labor Law enforcers should be interested.
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  4. #43
    Goldenrod SP ThetanExterior's Avatar
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    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Rob View Post
    I finally finished reading Going Clear this week and the author really emphasized child labour laws in California and at what age you can start work, operate certain machinery, etc. And as told by the author, there were dozens of SO kids in California operating machinery that they aren't old enough to use, and are working upwards of 70 hours a week (when law prohibits them from working more than 18 or so?) Can the DOJ not start there, citing child labour laws? Have a looksee around to see what children are working where and for how long...is that not a ball that could get rolled if the right people inquire about it?
    I don't know anything about US law but I thought the reason they get away with this is because these kids are not employees, they are religious volunteers, and therefore not subject to labour laws?

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  6. #44
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    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    I didn't think it was still being done (letting kids in the SO). Was that up to date info about the kids? If so, yeah, Child Labor Law enforcers should be interested.
    Good post (and Rob's too). I think if there's one thing above all which could incur the disgust of the man (and woman) in the street and persuade them to demand that some kind of action be taken against the CofS, it's the way it treats children. A lot of the other revelations could at least potentially be excused away as "well, it's what they chose, no business of ours to interfere" but children in Scn (and especially the SO) didn't choose to be there.
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  8. #45

    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Rob View Post
    Can the DOJ not start there, citing child labour laws? Have a looksee around to see what children are working where and for how long...is that not a ball that could get rolled if the right people inquire about it?
    No, they cannot. A search warrant is required and a book cannot swear one out. Otherwise, I could write a book and say that you are cooking up meth in your house and the local DA could get a search warrant and raid your house... A quick perusal of the U.S. Const. will shed more light on the subject.
    Last edited by PeterPier; 18th April 2017 at 02:49 PM. Reason: grammar

  9. #46
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    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by Whattodo View Post
    So how and when do people forsee the end of the scientology organisation?
    As a religion/cult, Scientology is already in the death bed. However, as commercial enterprise, CoS will survive. They already invested tons of money in real estate (Ideal Orgs and other buildings) A religious organization, even if it has tax exempt status. is allowed, after certain period of time, to sell its buildings. This happened in NYC where I live -- several Catholic schools sold their building after the school attendance went down. I am sure CoS will be doing the same.
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    Gold Meritorious Patron WildKat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterPier View Post
    No, they cannot. A search warrant is required and a book cannot swear one out. Otherwise, I could write a book and say that you are cooking up meth in your house and the local DA could get a search warrant and raid your house... I quick perusal of the U.S. Const. will shed more light on the subject.
    Was just thinking about this...there does have to be a complainant, someone to witness an abuse and swear out a complaint. The likely person to do this would be the parent or a relative. But if the parents Ok'd the kid going in, they are sort of incriminating themselves, to then complain later....You have to ask "what were you thinking, giving your kid over to a cult???" I recall decades ago whole families joining SO, so there was no one left to protect the kids. Again, I don't know if this still happens or not.

    I got the idea somewhere in the past that if a kid was 16, the parents could sign him over to the SO, but if under 16 they wouldn't take him in any event. I don't know what the "policy" is today.
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  11. #48

    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by WildKat View Post
    Was just thinking about this...there does have to be a complainant, someone to witness an abuse and swear out a complaint. The likely person to do this would be the parent or a relative.
    Not likely the parent. You have to be an EYEWITNESS to swear out a for a warrant. 2nd hand info from a person cannot be used.

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  13. #49
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    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterPier View Post
    Not likely the parent. You have to be an EYEWITNESS to swear out a for a warrant. 2nd hand info from a person cannot be used.
    I would think the kid would be the witness and the parent would file on behalf of that witness, as their guardian.
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  15. #50

    Default Re: The end of scientology!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThetanExterior View Post
    I don't know anything about US law but I thought the reason they get away with this is because these kids are not employees, they are religious volunteers, and therefore not subject to labour laws?
    You're right, they're not subject to business laws covering employees, but COS can still be held accountable for:

    Child endangerment (and labor and OSHA laws provide some good outlines for this)
    Child abuse
    Children not attending school (where they can be reported by teachers and counselors if they are habitually hungry or showing insufficient sleep)

    Added: For any part of COS that is deemed "for profit," the child labor laws would apply, whether they volunteer or not, according to a recent case against one of the Mormon church offshoots for using child labor in a "for profit" part of its church.

    There is also an area of law covering children working for non-profits called, "Negligent Entrustment" if, for example, a minor child is given supervision of a number of younger children and there is no adult supervision and an accident happens, or like you said, if the minor is given access to drive or use dangerous equipment and injures himself or others.

    http://buildersrisk.usassure.com/zibs/maintain.nsf/pages/C9992EC67152A4808525785B0061B7D4/$FILE/usassure_CRI_January%202011.pdf
    Last edited by JustSheila; 18th April 2017 at 08:06 PM.
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