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Thread: Can you just stop?

  1. #1

    Default Can you just stop?

    I've been on this board forever, as a lurker and later a member, and I've read all of your stories and you guys are just the best. And incredibly patient with my questions!

    One thing I've always wondered, and I've never been able to figure out in all the stuff I've read. If you're in the Hole and you decide "fuck this, I'll leave all of my stuff and be declared", can you just go? From the way I understand it, "routing out" is the official way to leave and takes months and $$ but you leave in good standing, "blowing" is escaping. But do you have to escape-escape if you're in the Hole? Can you physically be stopped from leaving the church and kept in a "prison" forever?

    I understand that lots of folks have been brainwashed and think that being sent to the RPF is for their own good (crazy), but for the folks that finally come to their senses and decide enough is enough, what is then stopping them?

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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Today, if 5 people an hour, all 12 minutes apart decided to 'just walk or run out or even drive out' I doubt that they would make it past the spiked fences or security guards without:

    1) being stopped and denied exit.
    2) if they slipped past security, then security would chase them and physically restrain them
    3) might get out but only if they are 'trusted' by an 'off policy' security whom is probably required by their job description to prevent all exits unless adequate approved proof is shown or otherwise provided.

    Short answer NO, extremely unlikely.

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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Rob View Post
    I've been on this board forever, as a lurker and later a member, and I've read all of your stories and you guys are just the best. And incredibly patient with my questions!

    One thing I've always wondered, and I've never been able to figure out in all the stuff I've read. If you're in the Hole and you decide "fuck this, I'll leave all of my stuff and be declared", can you just go? From the way I understand it, "routing out" is the official way to leave and takes months and $$ but you leave in good standing, "blowing" is escaping. But do you have to escape-escape if you're in the Hole? Can you physically be stopped from leaving the church and kept in a "prison" forever?

    I understand that lots of folks have been brainwashed and think that being sent to the RPF is for their own good (crazy), but for the folks that finally come to their senses and decide enough is enough, what is then stopping them?
    The only people in the hole are those at international base in Hemet controlled tightly by David Miscavige.

    There are different levels for people involved in scientology. Public can just leave, never answer phone calls or letters or answer the door.

    Staff members at the local Orgs are supposed to "route out" on good terms so that they can become now a paying public and without becoming declared SP or PTS.

    Sea Org members are another story.

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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Then, after you get out, there's at least 10 years of recovery. That's my opinion. Or however many years you were in, you would probably need half that amount to recover, and I don't believe you ever fully "recover." I think you can have a successful and beautiful, fulfilling, wonderful, enriching, happy, and better life -- and that will WAY outweigh the residual mind-fuck/tweak that was done to your mind, perhaps on a cellular level (anyone?), but I've been out a lot of years and I still do not answer my phone (or the door come to think of it) because sometimes the call does come from their call center, even after all this time.

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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Scientology is extreme idealism

    Sea org are the most extreme of scientologists

    The rpf add another layer of seriousness

    There's many examples of the mind games they play to recover people

    Videos on YouTube with former security doing blow drills

    They practice recovering people

    They use your closest family or friends to recover you

    Promises, begging, deals, implied threats and other danger if you don't return etc.

    Who was that one guy from the states he went to Africa and they chased him down and got him back

    There's orgs all over the world and they access flight records

    They're freaks

    Easy to join very hard to leave that's standard cult behaviors

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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Rob View Post
    I've been on this board forever, as a lurker and later a member, and I've read all of your stories and you guys are just the best. And incredibly patient with my questions!

    One thing I've always wondered, and I've never been able to figure out in all the stuff I've read. If you're in the Hole and you decide "fuck this, I'll leave all of my stuff and be declared", can you just go? From the way I understand it, "routing out" is the official way to leave and takes months and $$ but you leave in good standing, "blowing" is escaping. But do you have to escape-escape if you're in the Hole? Can you physically be stopped from leaving the church and kept in a "prison" forever?

    I understand that lots of folks have been brainwashed and think that being sent to the RPF is for their own good (crazy), but for the folks that finally come to their senses and decide enough is enough, what is then stopping them?
    Rob,

    "Can you just stop?"

    This is a straightforward simple question with an incredibly complex answer.

    The short answer your question is "theoretically Yes, but functionally No".

    I'll let others more qualified than I to "fill in the gory details" to the following:

    Almost always (save a few--very few--isolated instances in my experience)...

    If you're SO Crew the moment you formally announce your decision to leave you embark on a protracted, arduously long, exhausting and dehumanizing process wherein you are ostracized and prevented from private contact with everyone but your "Terminal" (MAA)--including spouse, children, relatives, friends and co-workers. You are then subjugated to hours--most often hundreds--of intense, calculating and debasing malicious interrogations, scolding and recrimination to whatever you say to your "Terminal" based upon your "Confidential Confessional Formulary" you previously offered up in GOOD FAITH. You may not speak to others of "The Group", you are under "Watch" constantly to ensure you do not "Blow", have no "Human Rights"--other than to defecate and urinate, eat what "food" is provided and sleep where, when and on what you are told to.

    All the above goes on for anywhere from a few months, to some months to many, many months.

    Depending upon your personal situation, your entire immediate family may be "Scns in Good Standing" and will not raise a finger to help you. If your immediate family are not Scns, your not allowed to communicate with them until your "Handling" is completed (unless you've "precipitated a 'Potential Shore Flap'" by telling them that you are "disaffected" and are going to leave ASAP) and you have signed the "Appropriate Documents" that, in effect (in your mind) "Muzzle" you from "disclosing 'Confidential Information'" under threat of financial and "Legal" penalty. Additionally, your "Confessional and Personal Information" is known by the "MAA" and is "brought to bear" with you regarding your "Aberrated" decision to leave and the "harm" your decision and leaving is bringing to "others" you love and care about.

    So if you've got no spouse, children and/or immediate family on Staff or So Crew or in Scn then this "just stop" process--although intensely traumatic, psychologically painful and emotionally devastating--only leaves an ugly scar after the wounds scab over and eventually heal. However, if you left a spouse and children behind and your immediate family were Scns you live with wounds that never fully scab over, are easily opened and over time fester.

    Now, that's the EASY to "just stop" compared to the RPF. "The Hole" is below the RPF and, IIRC, when Rinder was temporarily let out of "The Hole" he "Blew" the first chance he had...leaving wife, children and immediate family behind.

    I've had my say and, like I said, I'll let others more qualified than I to "fill in the gory details".

    Face

    EDIT PS: Additionally, if it is found out that you discussed your decision to leave...or talked about wanting to leave...with anyone other than the MAA--including your spouse--prior to or after stating your desire to leave to the MAA and they did not "Report" you, then they are hauled into Ethics, Sec Checked and "Handled".
    Last edited by afaceinthecrowd; 18th April 2017 at 05:03 AM.
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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    ..

    There are some excellent answers already on this thread. Face tells it like it is!

    I'll add a minor but very colorful note about how Scientology administers justice according to it's inviolable scripture.

    AXIOM: Policies on the handling of disaffections & blows are inviolable and therefore must be adhered to 100%, without exception! Unless the person is connected to money, fame or celebrities.

    Example: If Connor Cruise (Tom Cruise's son) was in the SO and decided to blow, they would call off all the dogs, cancel the "BlowDrill" and probably call him a limo.

    Example: If a Sea Org member said horrific ("SP") things about Hubbard & Miscavige and demanded to be allowed to immediately blow--even threatening to sue or call the police (for kidnapping), nothing would happen to them if they were the child of mega-whale-donor Bob Duggan. Well, maybe I'm exaggerating and there would be a problem--the problem being whether to to award him the ETERNAL HUMANITARIAN FREEDOM MEDAL or construct a 5-foot tall ornate gold trophy that validates his selfless Sea Org service in helping Ron Clear the planet for 8 solid weeks before he blew.

    HELPFUL HINT: There are, in fact, NO exact policies on the stalking, imprisonment and terrorism of staff members who want to blow. The only policy is whatever they think they can get away with--without creating an even bigger PR flap. True-believing KSW Scientologists are depraved and manipulative opportunists who will say or do anything to get what they want--and do it with a pious grin.
    Last edited by HelluvaHoax!; 19th April 2017 at 12:12 AM.
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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Quote Originally Posted by HelluvaHoax! View Post
    ..

    There are some excellent answers already on this thread. Face tells it like it is!

    I'll add a minor but very colorful note about how Scientology administers justice according to it's inviolable scripture.

    AXIOM: Policies on the handling of disaffections & blows are inviolable and therefore must be adhered to 100%, without exception! Unless the person is connected to money, fame or celebrities.

    Example: If Connor Cruise (Tom Cruise's son) was in the SO and decided to blow, they would call off all the dogs, cancel the "BlowDrill" and probably call him a limo.

    Example: If a Sea Org member said horrific things and Hubbard & Miscavige and demanded to be allowed to immediately blow--even threatening to sue or call the police (for kidnapping), nothing would happen to them if they were the child of mega-whale-donor Bob Duggan. Well, maybe I'm exaggerating and there would be a problem--the problem being whether to to award him the ETERNAL HUMANITARIAN FREEDOM MEDAL or construct a 5-foot tall ornate gold trophy that validates his selfless Sea Org service in helping Ron Clear the planet for 8 solid weeks before he blew.

    HELPFUL HINT: There are, in fact, NO exact policies on the stalking, imprisonment and terrorism of staff members who want to blow. The only policy is whatever they think they can get away with--without creating an even bigger PR flap. Scientologists are depraved and manipulative opportunists who will say or do anything to get what they want and do it with a pious grin.


    (delete)
    Last edited by afaceinthecrowd; 18th April 2017 at 06:08 AM.
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  17. #9

    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Quote Originally Posted by afaceinthecrowd View Post
    Rob,

    "Can you just stop?"

    This is a straightforward simple question with an incredibly complex answer.
    Hey Face! Thanks for the response, I very much appreciate the information (always do!). Of course my question wasn't just "can you just stop" (like "stop altogether") - I know that they will do anything to recover you if you blow or threaten to leave, like withholding family members, blackmail, a freeloader's debt, etc. What I was trying to figure out if you could be physically restrained from leaving, and it appears you can. What the fuck are those guards being told anyway? "Restrain this person or they'll destroy Scientology?"

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    Default Re: Can you just stop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesome Rob View Post
    <snip>
    I understand that lots of folks have been brainwashed and think that being sent to the RPF is for their own good (crazy), but for the folks that finally come to their senses and decide enough is enough, what is then stopping them?

    1. where do they go without money to pay for it?

    2. how do they get a WOG job to pay living expenses?

    3. what are they going to put on a job application?


    Those are just 3 items I list in thinking about this for just a few seconds.
    The emphasis on finding and describing "knowledge structures" that are somewhere "inside" the individual encourages us to overlook the fact that human cognition is always situated in a complex sociocultural world and cannot be unaffected by it. - Edwin Hutchins
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Hutchins

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