Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33

Thread: Literally what to do!

  1. #11

    Default Re: Literally what to do! - Getting people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veda View Post
    There have been many threads addressing this in various ways. Off hand I can't locate any, but, perhaps, others will be able to do so, and would provide some links.

    One important thing is to be prepared for a time when the person becomes disillusioned (or has an upset with Scientology even temporarily) and calls you on the phone or shows up at your door, seeking help.

    Let's see if anyone comes up with any links.
    I hope so, it's handling that situation in the right way if it does happen. I think pride will get in the way, that admission that you've been duped all along must be quite unbearable especially when they are so self assured. I bet it has aren't some people over the edge confronting the reality of that situation.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Literally what to do!

    Has anyone ever tried sending anonymous mail to put things under the mods of anyone they want to try and get out?

  3. #13

    Default Re: Literally what to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Whattodo View Post
    Has anyone ever tried sending anonymous mail to put things under the mods of anyone they want to try and get out?
    What exactly is it that you think doing that might accomplish? Do you imagine that the moderators of ESMB have some sort of magical OT super powers to get people out of Co$ ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
    email: warrior_mike2001@yahoo.com
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011

  4. #14

    Default Re: Literally what to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by phenomanon View Post
    Are you crazy??! You can't know who the Mods are. I've been posting here for evah and I don't know who the Mods are. And NOTHING gets deleted from this Board! We don't Delete! Who is this "we" who can delete here? I'd like to delete a few dozen posts.

    At the top banner, use the drop-down called Quick Links and select Site Leaders. Hmmm, it looks out of date.

    The easiest and most efficient way to alert Mods about a post, is to report it.

    Within this forum software, is a hidden section for Admins and Mods. They can discuss a situation there, and importantly, see the reported posts that go there. When Mods log-in, they will see a notification as we do with "Likes".

  5. #15
    Sponsor Veda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    13,097

    Default Re: Literally what to do! - Getting people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Whattodo View Post
    I hope so, it's handling that situation in the right way if it does happen. I think pride will get in the way, that admission that you've been duped all along must be quite unbearable especially when they are so self assured. I bet it has aren't some people over the edge confronting the reality of that situation.
    Sometimes it's more effective - and gentle - to allow the person to hold onto some parts of Scientology. It's not necessary to take it all away from him or her. Leave them a little something. The main thing is to extricate them from the organization and its influence. Once that's done, they can figure the rest out for themselves.

    Those little somethings can be found scattered about in what is called "Layer One" of this summation of the disguised and multi layered Scientology trap.


    Here's the original Scientological Onion as it appeared in the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?'



    This is excerpted from the chapter titled, 'Destructive Cult Defined, and the Gradients of Deception: the Layers of the Scientological Onion'. Omitted is a one page introduction which is also worth reading.


    Scientology could be described as a "layers of the onion" operation.

    The outermost layer of the "Scientological Onion" is not identifiable with Scientology at all, being composed of front groups that conceal their connection to -and control by - the Scientology organization. Front groups might be said to constitute Layer Zero: a place where the tentacles of Scientology can grope incognito.

    The first layer of the Scientological Onion is meant to be very visible...

    Layer One includes Scientology's pampered clique of celebrities, and various public relations ploys. It reverberates with noble sounding sentiments about creating a better world. Scientology seeks to equate itself, and its founder, with anything broadly viewed as desirable or good. A little further along, this layer would include introductory courses with the stated aim of "knowing oneself" and "being free."

    Here exist the potentially beneficial aspects of the many masked Scientology operation. The tragedy of Scientology is that the "positives" are used as "window dressing" and "bait on the hook," when they should have been the core and foundation. Thus the Scientology organization reeks of hypocrisy.

    Also, at this much publicized layer, L. Ron Hubbard is presented as an engineer, war hero, nuclear physicist, and the "greatest humanitarian of all time," and the author of "22 best sellers with more to come."

    The "first layer" is what Scientology wishes the outside world to know as Scientology. And it is essentially what new converts to the "movement" believe.

    It includes most of what is good in the subject: The dream of peace on Earth, the desire to help, practical wisdom, civilized communication, and some potentially beneficial counseling procedures. The word freedom is used a great deal at this layer, and a heart felt desire for greater personal freedom, and freedom for all Mankind, is not unusual to new recruits to Scientology.

    (Any inconsistencies or contradictions between the publicly stated aims of the movement, and actual practices or facts, become irrelevant as the individual becomes subject to the Dark Side of Scientology. And the deeper one descends into the "onion" the darker it gets.)

    Descending into the "onion" it is necessary to become a Scientologist. This means thinking like a Scientologist. This is the Second Layer where deception eases into "soft" forms of mind-manipulation. Love of Mankind is modified that the awareness that human beings are mere hapless "Wogs"... The desire to help becomes the desire to recruit. The ideal of practical wisdom, based on logic and science, is superseded by the belief in the unfathomable mystery of the "tech." Indeed one is expected to be in a state of awe regarding the "tech," much in the same manner that a peasant woman might regard piece of bone, said to have belonged to a Saint from centuries past.

    The publicly promoted "policy" of honesty is modified by an awareness that deception is OK, as long as it serves to achieve the desired Scientological end. And the ideals of civility and democracy become a joke - just something that "panty-waists" and wimps fixate on.

    One is slowly being "hatted" as a Scientologist.

    (At this point an - unlucky - new Scientologist may be subjected to heavy handed "hard sell" tactics by a sales person or "registrar." Life savings have been lost, inheritances gobbled up, and lines of credit drained, all in a single arduous evening of "hard sell." This is really a premature taste of Layer Four.)

    The Third Layer down is composed of never ending, expensive, highly advertised, but confidential "upper levels." These go on and on - and on. Scientology has been selling the promise of "Total Freedom" since before most of its current membership were born. It remains the ever elusive "dangling carrot."

    Well known individuals who become involved in Scientology - becoming "Scientology celebrities" - do not go deeper into the Scientological Onion than this.

    They are also spared the abuses that "less valuable" beings may suffer at the hands of Scientology sales people, "Sea Org" recruiters, or "ethics" officers...

    At the upper fringes of the next layer down is local "Org staff," and at the bottom of Layer Four can be found "Sea Org" personnel. This layer employs more pervasive and cruder forms of "persuasion" or "mind control." Here is the "slave labor" supplying Rehabilitation Project Force, the Pavlovian "5 Card System," and the grim but repressed awareness that one is mainly a "post" and a "stat," (i.e. statistic.)

    The Fifth layer down includes intimidation of the mass media, use of lawsuits purely for purposes of harassment, and applications of policies and programs, such as those discovered as a result of the FBI search warrants of July 1977. These materials were made available for public view by Federal court order in 1979 and consist of organized applications of the Fair game Law, and related confidential policies and "tech," designed to illegally gain access to private files, infiltrate, harass, lie about, "sue, trick, lie to, or destroy" anyone perceived as an enemy. At this layer also would be secret bank accounts and financial irregularities.

    Other aspects of this layer would include "blackmail," including threats to publicize personal information obtained during "religious confessionals" (auditing sessions); and the inducement of duress of various kinds - including frivolous lawsuits - to obtain promises of "silence," and to obtain "signed retractions" of earlier statements.

    Here also can be found the handful of individuals who constitute the "Scientology hierarchy": the board of directors of the Religious Technology Center, and its chairman David Miscavige or "DM."

    Layer Number Six appears to be the core of the Onion. It is a very temperamental and secret place.

    Here lie the secrets of L. Ron Hubbard: his bad health, bad habits, undistinguished military service, flunked physics and mathematics classes. Here can be found the actual motivations behind, and sources of, Dianetics and Scientology. Here can be found Mary Sue Hubbard, languishing in prison for crimes committed under her husband's direction, while her husband, in hiding, passes the time writing Science Fiction. Here are all the things you shouldn't know about the founder of the "Science of Knowing How to Know."


    _______


    One of the more effective (but not entirely honest) approaches - for those deeply IN - it to say, "tech is out on Orgs."

    Sites such as this may be useful in such drastic cases.

    http://www.friendsoflrh.org/
    Visit the Ex Scientologist Message Board web site for selected content from ESMB and more: http://exscn.net/

  6. Thanks guanoloco, Ogsonofgroo says "thank you" for this post
  7. #16
    Silver Meritorious Patron cleared cannibal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    1,092

    Default Re: Literally what to do! - Getting people out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veda View Post
    Sometimes it's more effective - and gentle - to allow the person to hold onto some parts of Scientology. It's not necessary to take it all away from him or her. Leave them a little something. The main thing is to extricate them from the organization and its influence. Once that's done, they can figure the rest out for themselves.

    Those little somethings can be found scattered about in what is called "Layer One" of this summation of the disguised and multi layered Scientology trap.


    Here's the original Scientological Onion as it appeared in the book, 'L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman?'



    This is excerpted from the chapter titled, 'Destructive Cult Defined, and the Gradients of Deception: the Layers of the Scientological Onion'. Omitted is a one page introduction which is also worth reading.
    Scientology could be described as a "layers of the onion" operation.

    The outermost layer of the "Scientological Onion" is not identifiable with Scientology at all, being composed of front groups that conceal their connection to -and control by - the Scientology organization. Front groups might be said to constitute Layer Zero: a place where the tentacles of Scientology can grope incognito.

    The first layer of the Scientological Onion is meant to be very visible...

    Layer One includes Scientology's pampered clique of celebrities, and various public relations ploys. It reverberates with noble sounding sentiments about creating a better world. Scientology seeks to equate itself, and its founder, with anything broadly viewed as desirable or good. A little further along, this layer would include introductory courses with the stated aim of "knowing oneself" and "being free."

    Here exist the potentially beneficial aspects of the many masked Scientology operation. The tragedy of Scientology is that the "positives" are used as "window dressing" and "bait on the hook," when they should have been the core and foundation. Thus the Scientology organization reeks of hypocrisy.

    Also, at this much publicized layer, L. Ron Hubbard is presented as an engineer, war hero, nuclear physicist, and the "greatest humanitarian of all time," and the author of "22 best sellers with more to come."

    The "first layer" is what Scientology wishes the outside world to know as Scientology. And it is essentially what new converts to the "movement" believe.

    It includes most of what is good in the subject: The dream of peace on Earth, the desire to help, practical wisdom, civilized communication, and some potentially beneficial counseling procedures. The word freedom is used a great deal at this layer, and a heart felt desire for greater personal freedom, and freedom for all Mankind, is not unusual to new recruits to Scientology.

    (Any inconsistencies or contradictions between the publicly stated aims of the movement, and actual practices or facts, become irrelevant as the individual becomes subject to the Dark Side of Scientology. And the deeper one descends into the "onion" the darker it gets.)

    Descending into the "onion" it is necessary to become a Scientologist. This means thinking like a Scientologist. This is the Second Layer where deception eases into "soft" forms of mind-manipulation. Love of Mankind is modified that the awareness that human beings are mere hapless "Wogs"... The desire to help becomes the desire to recruit. The ideal of practical wisdom, based on logic and science, is superseded by the belief in the unfathomable mystery of the "tech." Indeed one is expected to be in a state of awe regarding the "tech," much in the same manner that a peasant woman might regard piece of bone, said to have belonged to a Saint from centuries past.

    The publicly promoted "policy" of honesty is modified by an awareness that deception is OK, as long as it serves to achieve the desired Scientological end. And the ideals of civility and democracy become a joke - just something that "panty-waists" and wimps fixate on.

    One is slowly being "hatted" as a Scientologist.

    (At this point an - unlucky - new Scientologist may be subjected to heavy handed "hard sell" tactics by a sales person or "registrar." Life savings have been lost, inheritances gobbled up, and lines of credit drained, all in a single arduous evening of "hard sell." This is really a premature taste of Layer Four.)

    The Third Layer down is composed of never ending, expensive, highly advertised, but confidential "upper levels." These go on and on - and on. Scientology has been selling the promise of "Total Freedom" since before most of its current membership were born. It remains the ever elusive "dangling carrot."

    Well known individuals who become involved in Scientology - becoming "Scientology celebrities" - do not go deeper into the Scientological Onion than this.

    They are also spared the abuses that "less valuable" beings may suffer at the hands of Scientology sales people, "Sea Org" recruiters, or "ethics" officers...

    At the upper fringes of the next layer down is local "Org staff," and at the bottom of Layer Four can be found "Sea Org" personnel. This layer employs more pervasive and cruder forms of "persuasion" or "mind control." Here is the "slave labor" supplying Rehabilitation Project Force, the Pavlovian "5 Card System," and the grim but repressed awareness that one is mainly a "post" and a "stat," (i.e. statistic.)

    The Fifth layer down includes intimidation of the mass media, use of lawsuits purely for purposes of harassment, and applications of policies and programs, such as those discovered as a result of the FBI search warrants of July 1977. These materials were made available for public view by Federal court order in 1979 and consist of organized applications of the Fair game Law, and related confidential policies and "tech," designed to illegally gain access to private files, infiltrate, harass, lie about, "sue, trick, lie to, or destroy" anyone perceived as an enemy. At this layer also would be secret bank accounts and financial irregularities.

    Other aspects of this layer would include "blackmail," including threats to publicize personal information obtained during "religious confessionals" (auditing sessions); and the inducement of duress of various kinds - including frivolous lawsuits - to obtain promises of "silence," and to obtain "signed retractions" of earlier statements.

    Here also can be found the handful of individuals who constitute the "Scientology hierarchy": the board of directors of the Religious Technology Center, and its chairman David Miscavige or "DM."

    Layer Number Six appears to be the core of the Onion. It is a very temperamental and secret place.

    Here lie the secrets of L. Ron Hubbard: his bad health, bad habits, undistinguished military service, flunked physics and mathematics classes. Here can be found the actual motivations behind, and sources of, Dianetics and Scientology. Here can be found Mary Sue Hubbard, languishing in prison for crimes committed under her husband's direction, while her husband, in hiding, passes the time writing Science Fiction. Here are all the things you shouldn't know about the founder of the "Science of Knowing How to Know."


    _______


    One of the more effective (but not entirely honest) approaches - for those deeply IN - it to say, "tech is out on Orgs."

    Sites such as this may be useful in such drastic cases.

    http://www.friendsoflrh.org/
    I still struggle with sorting the good from the bad. I don't think you should throw out or disavow everything from Scn. In actuality most everything of value is probably plagiarized from some other place , many are valid ideas. This leads to a cognitive dissonance situation for me and many others. I still have comms with Scn and I now can recognize when they find a point of agreement and this feeling of cognitive dissonance and get through it on most occasions.

    I feel there is very little one can do to get someone to leave unless they are willing to look.


    Ethercat's through the door interviews might be of interest to you if you haven't already looked. Goes through many people's reasons for joining and leaving. A few on there are even still in I think, been a while since I read them.
    http://alley.ethercat.com/door/index.html

    I found this on my news feed today. I guess Google must be tracking my interests. Was going to make a thread of it but seems applicable here. Apologies if it has already been posted I am unable to closely follow the board right now.
    http://www.newsweek.com/handmaids-ta...ing-tom-594180

    You might be interested in the Rick Ross vid.

    It's better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you are not.

  8. #17
    Patron with Honors
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    102

    Default Re: Literally what to do!

    Personally, while I can appreciate all the advice on the other thread that this thread is linked to in the beginning of this one, and all the advice on this one too, (wow, did that make any sense?) I wouldn't wait to pounce on someone when they have a big upset with the Church, but gently agree that you used to feel the same way, or do feel that same way without getting into a "natter" fest. What's golden is when they are disillusioned with the "tech" itself. That is when you need to be a safety net because that could be a big deal for them. The floor could be dropping from underneath them for all you know. Kid gloves. It could be a perfect time to tell them you live happily in the world without Scientology and you are okay, but do not suggest that they should. Always let them have their own realization and make their own decision.

    I have made comments to my Scientology friends that I still use Scientology in my life and that it is part of my "tool box." I do not mean it and it is a small white lie, but it seems to open a door that there are other things in the world that are of assistance in life other than Scientology. It is not the ONE thing that will save the universe. Or whatever. They ALREADY KNOW the tech has flaws and that it is not foolproof. If they've been in a while, they have experienced it, witnessed it or know about it. You really do not NEED to plant too many seeds. You need to let them feel like they can come to you when they are ready. And BE THERE for them when they are. This seemed to work on at least one friend, but I really can't take responsibility for her leaving. Who knows what else made her come to her decision. But luckily, she is out, her sister is out too. The parents are still in. Another friend of mine is out and his parents are still in, but he was able to reconnect to one biological parent (and brother) who were considered "enemies" when his parents divorced. He was just 14. See how they break up families? Once he contacted that parent, his leaving was set in stone. He was instantly embraced and felt safe and loved.

    All I'm saying is do it gently, lead by example, don't push, and make sure they know you are a safe person to talk to. You want to basically represent the freedom they do not have.

  9. Likes Whattodo, TheOriginalBigBlue liked this post
  10. #18
    Gold Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,091

    Default Re: Literally what to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOriginalBigBlue View Post
    snip...

    Scientology has perfected the art of rewriting history. One of the things I get a kick out of Scio watching is the extent to which the past is censored. So many people who knew the history are out and banned. Issues are canceled and shredded and their distribution is increasingly restricted within the organization. In the Sea Org we were mostly clueless outside of our own immediate area so the public are at the complete whim of the party line. Even internal correspondence routings are often to cryptic acronym titles - not to the people who hold them so if the people disappear only a few in the know may know. They seem very paranoid of propping anyone up who seems to represent the Church with any authority or credibility because to the extent they do that the damage control will be more difficult when they defect so we get voice overs on promo films or walk-ons instead of a consistent spokesperson.
    Ha ha Yes, just compare the course rooms of the 60's and 70's. They actually have people in them. But how many of those people are now out, declared or even EXposing the scam. So what do they do?
    They present more and more of their promo of buildings and course rooms with NO people in them. Sure there are photos of crowds... it is I suppose not hard to remove one or two or a few more people from a photo of a crowd.
    Before ya know it they will hand out Guy Fawkes masks to all who will be photographed at any scientology activity.

  11. Thanks TheOriginalBigBlue says "thank you" for this post
    Likes Jump, TheOriginalBigBlue, Whattodo liked this post
  12. #19
    Gold Meritorious Patron
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    4,091

    Default Re: Literally what to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Whattodo View Post
    Has anyone ever tried sending anonymous mail to put things under the mods of anyone they want to try and get out?
    Did you mean to type NOSE rather than mods?

  13. #20

    Default Re: Literally what to do!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSneakster View Post
    What exactly is it that you think doing that might accomplish? Do you imagine that the moderators of ESMB have some sort of magical OT super powers to get people out of Co$ ?

    Michael A. Hobson
    Independent Scientologist
    email: warrior_mike2001@yahoo.com
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/mhobson2011
    My new phone has this daft auto correct function that works differently to other phones. I meant under their noses not mods

  14. Likes dchoiceisalwaysrs liked this post
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. FULL expose on Scientology Inc - literally blowing the lid off everything
    By Karen#1 in forum Miscellaneous Reports from Newspapers, Blogs, and TV
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 9th November 2014, 07:21 PM
  2. $cientology literally dead in Nashville
    By A.K. Myers in forum General Scientology Discussion
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 9th May 2014, 09:44 PM
  3. I am a Genius. (literally)
    By me myself & i in forum General Scientology Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 29th March 2010, 01:23 AM
  4. Getting shot while on post - literally
    By therealme in forum Staff "War Stories"
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 14th August 2009, 12:01 AM
  5. Warning: OSA Volunteers are Literally Expendable
    By Smitty in forum Office of Special Affairs
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 1st December 2008, 08:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •