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Thread: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

  1. #11
    Goldenrod SP ThetanExterior's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    I like Arnie's website but I don't necessarily agree with everything he says.

    I think any talk about hypnotism regarding scientology is nonsense. I would use the term "mind control". The same techniques are used in cults throughout history.

    I've had real hypnotists try to hypnotise me twice and both failed yet I've also passed the Mensa IQ test. But I would admit I was mind-controlled by scientology.

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  3. #12
    Comfortably Numb strativarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    Quote Originally Posted by I told you I was trouble View Post
    To be fair, Arnie didn't mention it much here as far as I can recall ... another poster did though (who was apparently in contact with Arnie and loved his site where it probably is still mentioned).

    That other poster left ESMB with his IQ intact ... but I think his feelings may have been in tatters.

    Oh, I think I know who you're talking about, Moonshine? Bluebird? I can't quite remember his name for the moment. ;) To be fair, their definition of 'being hypnotised' wasn't the cliched 'piercing eyed man swinging a watch on a chain and telling you you're eyelids were getting heavy', no, it was a little more sophisticated than that. The jury's still out as far as I'm concerned.
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  5. #13
    Crusader RogerB's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    Actually, on the hypnosis thing . . . there are different definitions as to what exactly is it and how it affects folks.

    Two points: 1) it's a gradient thing: not a total is or isn't thing and 2) basically, it is the condition wherein one has had one's attention fixed on something beyond one's full control.

    Example: propaganda affects population control by hypnotically causing folks' attention to be fixed on the wrong things, targets, ideas or causes . . . err, and look hard on the various topics discussed here on ESMB and you'll see that fixidity of views that are effectively the result of a hypnosis effect relative to the subject of stuck/fixed think.

    Arnie delves into these nuances . . .

    R
    Life is supposed to be enjoyed, Mate!

    Don't show me the money . . . give me the TRUTH!
    Visit: http://knowledgism-practice-group.org

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  7. #14
    Suspended animation ... I told you I was trouble's Avatar
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    Smile Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerB View Post
    Actually, on the hypnosis thing . . . there are different definitions as to what exactly is it and how it affects folks.

    Two points: 1) it's a gradient thing: not a total is or isn't thing and 2) basically, it is the condition wherein one has had one's attention fixed on something beyond one's full control.

    Example: propaganda affects population control by hypnotically causing folks' attention to be fixed on the wrong things, targets, ideas or causes . . . err, and look hard on the various topics discussed here on ESMB and you'll see that fixidity of views that are effectively the result of a hypnosis effect relative to the subject of stuck/fixed think.

    Arnie delves into these nuances . . .

    R

    I agree basically with 1 and 2 above (it is gradual and ones attention is certainly fixed on something beyond ones full control) but if I had to compare scientology to anything it would be domestic violence (as someone else mentioned a few years ago).

    Once sucked in by a little love bombing the mind games begin, the threats and punishments are noticed and among other things appeasement and embarrassment can start to play it's part. The longer someone stays the worse it all gets until one day (if very lucky) a way is found to escape and run for the hills, never to return, though you will usually be chased down and attempts will be made to drag you back and of course there will be indies waiting on the sidelines trying to net a few escapees with a little ... indie love bombing.

    There is nothing sophisticated about violence and aggression (domestic or cult) though it can initially be subtle ... and it can happen to anyone, there are no "typical" victims. Things like wealth, age, education, ethnicity and gender are all irrelevant, anyone can be trapped and abused and we all know that.

    I can understand why someone would try and find reasons (or excuses) for why they were ensnared in an aggressive cult ... and perhaps for some it is especially difficult to swallow the idea that they were (effectively) a victim and maybe even a perpetrator of something so nasty but to keep repeating (over and over again) that they were hypnotised is probably not going to help no matter how nuanced ... it may even be hypnotic.



    For the record I have no problem at all with Arnie (and others) believing that they were hypnotised or fully mind controlled ... that is absolutely none of my business, I do recoil though when I see it being heavily promoted/sold to exes (as it was a few years ago) as "the reason" we were all sucked in with the added bonus of a dozen steak knives a high IQ being thrown in to soften the deal.

    Lol.

    FFS.







    "I like pigs. Cats look down on you; dogs look up to you; but pigs treat you like an equal."

    Sir Winston Churchill.




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    Crusader RogerB's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    On the subject of "mind control" . . . which, in fact, is only the action capturing your attention and fixing it on something "outside of your control," I collided with this little 5 minute charmer last night. Wonderful real life, now today, in the news examples.

    ===================
    BrasscheckTV Report
    ===================


    Several years ago, Adam Curtis made
    a film about a new concept:


    "Social control by confusion"

    Creating the state of "Oh Dear-ism"


    It's starting to make a lot of sense.


    Video:


    http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/31075.html






    - Brasscheck TV
    Life is supposed to be enjoyed, Mate!

    Don't show me the money . . . give me the TRUTH!
    Visit: http://knowledgism-practice-group.org

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  11. #16
    Comfortably Numb strativarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    From my post four or five messages back...

    telling you you're eyelids
    you're eyelids????

    Too late to edit it now. AAAAAaaaaghhhhh!!!!!!!
    To err is human, to purr is feline - Alexander Pope

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  13. #17
    Rabble Rouser Gizmo's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    Quote Originally Posted by I told you I was trouble View Post
    As soon as anyone starts to heavily push the "we were all hypnotised in the cult" thing I start to twitch ... when they then add with great certainty that "only those with a high IQ can be hypnotised" ... credibility goes out the window (for me) because clearly that's BS.

    All the "science and definitions of the word" in the world will not convince me that I was hypnotised.

    I was fooled, conned, traumatised, young and daft, nave, scared stiff and many other things but hypnotised ... I was not.

    This article on Hypnotic susceptibility is interesting (to a point) because it mentions that those with PTSD have a high susceptibility to being hypnotised, unfortunately it also mentions that those who are fantasy prone and/or suffering from disassociated identity disorder have an even higher susceptibility to it so it may not go down too well with the people who would like us all to believe we were hypnotised ... due to being so intelligent.



    Hypnotic susceptibility ... Wiki.

    FWIW I don't buy any of this with regards to the cult ... I believe we each had our reasons for joining a cult and there is no need to try and group us all into a neat package.

    Bear in mind, there are some people who come to conclusions in their own mind they decide are not only true for them but true for every living person on earth.

    So, yes, to some, it makes sense that if they feel they were hypnotized by scientology then everyone that has ever been in scientology was hypnotized.

    Now, if the people like that get the Jesus thing going . . . . . . . . . . . OMG . . . . . they have to save your soul !
    Ain't life grand !

    Over the years, I've come to really believe there is here & now . . . . . . . only.

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    Diamond Invictus SP Type4_PTS's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/deprogramming/
    Quote Originally Posted by Knows View Post
    I ran across this little gem. Not only does Arnie Lerma show how Scientology - still using FAIR GAME to destroy critics - but he deconstructs the cults manipulation and mind control tactics.
    Arnie Lerma did help me understand how Scientology used mind control and hypnosis on me to get me to "go up the Bridge" to total confusion....disabling my skills and abilities so that I only refer to "Ron" and the $cientology Cult on how to BE.

    This is a great resource for lurkers wanting information on How Scientology Works and why you are having a hard time getting out of the CULT even though you may be out of the cult.

    https://arnielerma.wordpress.com/2015/10/09/demonization-for-profit/

    I'll preface my post by disclosing I don't feel I have enough understanding about Hypnosis to know whether I was every hypnotized in Scn or not, or whether CoS uses hypnotic techniques.

    Clearly though some experts DO believe Hubbard utilized hypnosis.

    In the link from Arnie Lerma in your post he gives a couple good examples of that. A hypnotist back in 1952 upon reading Book I Dianetics recognized many hypnotic techniques in the book where Hubbard changed the terms. (That is all detailed in the paper published in the Journal of Hypnotism back at that time which he linked to.)

    In the other example, Arnie linked to Chapter 18 of the Anderson Report (from the very thorough 1965 Australian investigation of Scientology). They listened to expert testimony in relation to hypnosis and hypnotic techniques. Clearly they came to the conclusion that hypnosis IS a part of Scientology. Here's a link to Chapter 18 of that report:
    http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist1.htm

    In Arnie's Facebook group on "Scientology Deprogramming" a member of the group, Steve K.D. Eichel, a Psychology Professor (at University of Delaware) and the President of ICSA (International Cultic Studies Association) posted this:

    The online catalog announcement of my APA address next week.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	20616408_10210140541257781_1307646854_o.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	46.1 KB 
ID:	13712
    He will be addressing the APA (American Psychological Association) in a couple days at their 125th Annual Convention on the use of Hypnosis in Cults!

    On Arnie's blog there are also some additional posts on hypnosis as well over here:
    https://arnielerma.wordpress.com/category/hypnosis/

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  17. #19
    Suspended animation ... I told you I was trouble's Avatar
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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics



    If every scientologist followed the same cult trajectory I may be less likely to laugh at the idea that we were all hypnotised ... but they don't. About the only thing every scientologist has in common is the initial love bombing they receive closely followed by disrespect and a degree of introversion and stress and I doubt any of that is hypnotic.

    I also don't understand what part of scientology is meant to be hypnotic but assume auditing and perhaps the TR's would be at the top of the list ... but if that's true what was used to hypnotise the many, many staff who are (or once were) pulled off the street and failed to do a single step on the bridge, often for years ... yet apparently remain 'hypnotised'?



    I'm not saying hubbard wouldn't have tried to incorporate it into his cunning plan (I realise he studied hypnotism).

    I believe it was fear and anxiety (some real but most completely irrational) that kept me on the cult hook for as long as it did because that's what was used to trap me in the first place (shortly after the love bombing, lol) and it was constantly (but often subtly) reinforced to keep me there and that has always been a huge part of the culture of scientology, used very deliberately to entrap.




    "I like pigs. Cats look down on you; dogs look up to you; but pigs treat you like an equal."

    Sir Winston Churchill.




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    Default Re: $cientology: Photo Shopping to produce LIES and Hate Websites against critics

    Quote Originally Posted by I told you I was trouble View Post


    If every scientologist followed the same cult trajectory I may be less likely to laugh at the idea that we were all hypnotised ... but they don't. About the only thing every scientologist has in common is the initial love bombing they receive closely followed by disrespect and a degree of introversion and stress and I doubt any of that is hypnotic.

    I also don't understand what part of scientology is meant to be hypnotic but assume auditing and perhaps the TR's would be at the top of the list ... but if that's true what was used to hypnotise the many, many staff who are (or once were) pulled off the street and failed to do a single step on the bridge, often for years ... yet apparently remain 'hypnotised'?



    I'm not saying hubbard wouldn't have tried to incorporate it into his cunning plan (I realise he studied hypnotism).

    I believe it was fear and anxiety (some real but most completely irrational) that kept me on the cult hook for as long as it did because that's what was used to trap me in the first place (shortly after the love bombing, lol) and it was constantly (but often subtly) reinforced to keep me there and that has always been a huge part of the culture of scientology, used very deliberately to entrap.

    I agree, I've never bought into the argument that everything in $cientology is hypnosis or hypnotic inducing. I bang my head on my keyboard when someone uses that blanket generality. Cults and $cientology in particular use a variety of manipulative methodologies honed over time playing on people's beliefs and emotions keeping them inside a cult bubble.


    WW2 Treatment Documentary

    Someone started a thread posting this video a few years ago (I don't recall who) so I apologize for not giving credit where credit is due. This video is shot at a U.S. Army WW2 Veteran's Hospital depicting mental health treatments of soldiers being treated with psycho-hypnosis-therapy and heavy duty hypnotic drugs, also known as abreaction therapy which is now discredited. This is weapons grade military quick fix band aid psychology not meant for the general public, emptying out the V.A. hospitals getting soldiers back into the civilian population by any means necessary.

    Since Elcon spent time at a V.A. hospital, I think this is were Elcon got the idea and basis for his "auditing" mind-fuck tehk. This isn't stuff to play around with keeping mind a sociopath was getting into $cio's heads using and abusing his followers. The vid is almost an hour long, IMO well worth watching.
    Last edited by Free Being Me; 3rd August 2017 at 02:56 AM.

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