A question

[Alanzo]

Could go either way. Remember that song by the Police, "Can't Stand Losing You," were he says "You'll be sorry when I'm dead and all this guilt will be on your head..." That would be a service fac.

But after some one has spent all their money and exhausted all lines of credit to get the OT and then gets declared because the they're have problems. I could see a how suicide could be done out of despiration and despair.

Or you've been diagnosed with inoperable cancer and you decide to go out on your own terms.

Or your family has been murdered, your land has been annexed, and your neighbors and countrymen are being raped and degraded every day, and no one has done anything about it for decades. So you strap on a bomb and walk through Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem.

Or a bus is about to hit a little girl, and you've figured that you've had a good life, and that little girl hasn't had any kind of a chance yet, so you step in front of the bus, taking her place for her.

There are many reasons to commit suicide, few of them "service facs".

I'll tell you whats a service fac - asserting "All suicides are service facs"

Double underline that one in red!

[Takin Time]

Loses its' effectiveness is that what you're saying?

Yup. You got it! Had he died without opening his mouth, I might have felt guilty for years. Instead, I was instantly pissed at him (I knew he'd done it to "make a statement"). Wouldn't even go to the hospital with him in the ambulance. "Want to go with him, Ma'am?" asks the cop. "No fuckin' way! I ain't going nowhere with THAT maniac!" [P.S. He didn't die from this attempt.]

Of course, knowing it was a ser fac doesn't lessen the "freak out" of going thru that sort of incident. It was a while before I could stand to hear the locals going squirrel hunting (gun shots) without crying.

And, of course, this was just one example of a ser fac suicide. I can certainly imagine other suicides that are NOT ser facs, like that one of the Norwegian girl in Nice, France recently.

I just wanted to tell ONE story where I know for an absolute fact that it was indeed to make someone (me) wrong, and was NOT a desperation suicide.

[grundy]

What is suicide?

In Scientology they say it is a service facsimile.

Someone trying to make themselves right and others wrong. It is a form of domination.

Anyone?

Well, I can see why this is said. It makes you the cause and not whomever or whatever might have wanted to control you. Basically, you end the argument and the other terminal cannot reply.

But, this is a fixed idea (a ser fac, if you will lol).

I think usually it's the result of a decision that you or someone else will be better without you there. It is not usually rational.

SOMETIMES it is a make-wrong of someone else.

[grundy]

My EX-husband attempted suicide when I told him we were going to have a divorce. Cops arrived before the ambulance, sauntered in, asked what had happened. My husband -- still conscious -- said "My wife of one year was going to divorce me, so I shot myself."

The cop said "Well, you made a mistake, didn't ya?" Husband said "Nope. And I'd do it again." --- All recorded in public records, police reports, and joked about by ambulance workers, the local police, and divorce attorneys for years.

Despondent? No fuckin' way.

Making me wrong? You betcha!

Did I get my divorce? You bet your sweet buns I did after that escapade!!!!!!!

The moral of the story is... if you're going to attempt suicide as a ser fac, you should make sure NOT TO MISS!

I like her....

[Leon]

A ServFac is not always a "make wrong" of others. One definition of it is "a method of withdrawing from a state of beingness to a state of not beingness" with (sometimes) the intention to persuade others to coax the individual back into a state of beingness.

This definition describes the act of suicide very well.

[Howard]

What is suicide?

In Scientology they say it is a service facsimile.

Someone trying to make themselves right and others wrong. It is a form of domination.

Anyone?

There are several distinct human motives, only one of which
is represented by this ser fac definition:

An extreme form of "You'll be sorry"

A rational response to acute and irremediable physical suffering

In emotional extremis, just reaching for the 'off switch'

Striking an effective blow against those who attack your
people

Placing the safety/survival of others before your own

Extreme ennui, boredom and impatience


My tuppenceworth

Howard

[Bea Kiddo]

Thank you all for your responses so far. Interesting takes.


What about:

Wanting to shut up ones mind?

[SchwimmelPuckel]

Hmm.. Considering a body a piece of disposable MEST one is better off without. Pining for the wast expanses of the universe, bobbing along as a free thetan resembling an atomic nucleus with no location or vawelength. And considering family a 'bad group' that stops you spiritual gains... Uhmm.. And even considering oneself stuck with thousands of unwanted ghosts of dead space aliens in that body.. And having ones 'Guru' decide to leave his body to better do research.

All that would shift reasons for suicide around I think?

Would the ser-fac work if the suicider intended to make a scientologist feel guilty? - The scientologist 'knows' that he didn't die. He just dramatized or something.. A hardcore scientologist would maybe be concerned with a possible PR flap for the cult. Resent that the banky basterd removed himself as an income source?

Could also be a form of disconnection. A scilon don't think he can die at all, but he can get very effectively away from scientology that way!

Thing is.. Believeing that one lives forever as a thetan and just 'picks up a new baby body' makes it less daunting to die. Like a computer game.. Press the spacebar to get a new life.

But since I won't know for sure before I actually die, I won't take any chances. Safe bet is that we only live this once. This very WOG'gy assumption makes life indispensable and unique. Yours and everybody elses..

[Alanzo]

Hmm.. Considering a body a piece of disposable MEST one is better off without. Pining for the wast expanses of the universe, bobbing along as a free thetan resembling an atomic nucleus with no location or vawelength. And considering family a 'bad group' that stops you spiritual gains... Uhmm.. And even considering oneself stuck with thousands of unwanted ghosts of dead space aliens in that body.. And having ones 'Guru' decide to leave his body to better do research.

All that would shift reasons for suicide around I think?

Would the ser-fac work if the suicider intended to make a scientologist feel guilty? - The scientologist 'knows' that he didn't die. He just dramatized or something.. A hardcore scientologist would maybe be concerned with a possible PR flap for the cult. Resent that the banky basterd removed himself as an income source?

Could also be a form of disconnection. A scilon don't think he can die at all, but he can get very effectively away from scientology that way!

Thing is.. Believeing that one lives forever as a thetan and just 'picks up a new baby body' makes it less daunting to die. Like a computer game.. Press the spacebar to get a new life.

But since I won't know for sure before I actually die, I won't take any chances. Safe bet is that we only live this once. This very WOG'gy assumption makes life indispensable and unique. Yours and everybody elses..

I like Schwimmy.

He's a Danish.

[Howard]

Thank you all for your responses so far. Interesting takes.


What about:

Wanting to shut up ones mind?

Hmm. Stilling any inner dialogue between top dog and under
dog seems to be Meditation 101.

Certainly worth doing to free up and broaden attention and
awareness. Far from exclusive to Hubbardism.

Howard