Engrams, The Reactive Mind and Clear

[Infinite]

Thanks for persisting, I know I'm not God's brightest little candle. I'm really just trying to get a handle on Body Thetans. The theory I'm working on is that all of Scientology is a "dangling carrot" system - first the communication course, then Engrams, then Clear, then its onto the Body Thetans.

No, I didn't read Paul's OP - but Quote For Excellence:

***CONFIDENTIAL*** ***CLEAR COGNITION***

I really don't know if this will mess up anyone's case if they are not "Clear", or what the state really means any more, if it even exists. However...

A couple of people have posted here recently saying the Clear Cog is realizing that "I mocked up my Reactive Mind." It isn't. It is realizing that "I am mocking up my Reactive Mind." It is completely different, completely. Completely.

"Mocking up" means doing it in present time, right now, continuously, repetitively, each instant as it goes by, bam, bam, bam, bam, Hubbard said 25 times a second in the famous 1963 Time Track HCOBs. It's not that one mocked it up once, like you had an accident ten years ago and made a picture of it (engram) at the time and you sort of carry that picture around with you ever after, having made it in the past. You are creating that picture in a new unit of time every instant POW POW POW POW POW, at least, you are when it is in restim to some extent.

Don't ask me the exact mechanics of this. It implies that Hubbard had it all right, and he didn't.

For some reason the difference between mocked it up in the past and mocking it up continuously in present time is hard for some people to grasp. I remember a Grad V guy I checked out on auditing the CCRD around 1993. He was "OT VIII." He had a cold, and look a real mess. After about an hour of trying to get him to see the difference - and I was a trained sup and knew about misunderstoods and earlier similar mis-u's and e/s subjects etc. - I finally "realized" that the reason he couldn't see it (and also why he was in such a mess case-wise) was because he wasn't personally Clear. Now I don't know at all, but I have had trouble with other people - who attested OT whatever in the CofS and were Class VI and so forth - not easily grasping the difference between having mocked it up PFFT! at some point in the past and mocking it up in present time now now now now now now now now now now now now now...

Get the idea? If not, I tried!

Paul

. . . okay, so once I've eliminated sufficient Engrams so as to be able to perceive that I am mocking up my reactive mind - (25 times a second - whew!!) - what is the "carrot" between Clear and OTIII?

[Panda Termint]

That'd be the promised "Freedom From Overwhelm" upon completing OT3, the Wall Of Fire carrot.
Most people in scientology have their attention firmly fixated on that.
Get yourself a copy of The Grade Chart, all the carrots are there in the Abilities Gained column.

PS: I happen to think you're bright!

[Mark A. Baker]

Thanks for persisting, I know I'm not God's brightest little candle. I'm really just trying to get a handle on Body Thetans. The theory I'm working on is that all of Scientology is a "dangling carrot" system - first the communication course, then Engrams, then Clear, then its onto the Body Thetans. ...

That's because, as regards the subject of scientology, you've got the emphasis backwards. BT's are a minor part of the tech of scientology. Although they do drive a major part of the Co$ income. They could actually be left out as a subject with little real impairment to the tech. The emphasis on "bt tech" within the church came in with the SO and other clear evidences of Hubbard's deteriorating condition.

This is not to say that there is not something to be had from dealing with the phenomena which appertain to "bts". In one fashion or another many spiritual traditions seem to recognize them. But it seems likely that most of what the Co$ pushes in that vein is faulty at best and potentially dangerous especially within the environment created by Co$ officials.


Mark A. Baker

[Infinite]

That's because, as regards the subject of scientology, you've got the emphasis backwards. BT's are a minor part of the tech of scientology. Although they do drive a major part of the Co$ income. They could actually be left out as a subject with little real impairment to the tech. The emphasis on "bt tech" within the church came in with the SO and other clear evidences of Hubbard's deteriorating condition.

Au contraire. What drives people to persist with the tech - and remain within the cult - is that making progress up the Bridge is mankind's only hope if we are to be freed from this prison planet. I suggest, a deconstruction of why Earth is a prison planet would reveal that the premise is false and, in fact, the reverse is true: it is Scientology which is the prison. After all, if you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one.

As to whether my approach is arse-about-face, again, I disagree. When proving a theory, one starts with the end phenomena and then documents the steps, with proof, that lead to it. Scientolgy, again, is the reverse because it presents steps along the way in such a manner as to twist perception so as to manufacture "certainty". The PC goes from one delusion to another until they reach the "master" delusion, at which stage, the reason why and means to free mankind are "revealed".

This is not to say that there is not something to be had from dealing with the phenomena which appertain to "bts". In one fashion or another many spiritual traditions seem to recognize them. But it seems likely that most of what the Co$ pushes in that vein is faulty at best and potentially dangerous especially within the environment created by Co$ officials.

ORLY? And which of these "many spiritual traditions" involve alien life forms brought to Earth by an Evil Intergalactic Overlord in DC8s?

I'm not buying the idea that puddling about in the OT material is "dangerous". I suspect its a myth perpetuated by those seeking to maintain a mystique and general air of the "guru" about them. I have no doubt that it is the L Ron Hubbard tech as delivered in the Church environment which drives some people potty, but out here in the wild such warnings are little more than attempts to scare the children.

[Mark A. Baker]

Au contraire. What drives people to persist with the tech - and remain within the cult - is that making progress up the Bridge is mankind's only hope if we are to be freed from this prison planet.

Not mine or that of several others whom I know I can assure you. Unless you are speaking of your own experience ... (which frankly I doubt or you wouldn't be asking so many ill-informed questions) .

ORLY? And which of these "many spiritual traditions" involve alien life forms brought to Earth by an Evil Intergalactic Overlord in DC8s? ...

Nothing in my comment suggests any such thing. You clearly have an inability to separate your own obsessions from the comments of others.


Mark A. Baker

[Infinite]

Not mine or that of several others whom I know I can assure you. Unless you are speaking of your own experience ... (which frankly I doubt or you wouldn't be asking so many ill-informed questions) .

Nothing in my comment suggests any such thing. You clearly have an inability to separate your own obsessions from the comments of others.

Scientology 101: When confronted with undeniable facts and/or irrefutable logic, apply ad homs.

[Mark A. Baker]

Scientology 101: When confronted with undeniable facts and/or irrefutable logic, apply ad homs.

If you can't respond intelligently to another's remarks you shouldn't be terribly surprised when your own remarks are discounted as not germane.


Mark A. Baker

[Infinite]

If you can't respond intelligently to another's remarks you shouldn't be terribly surprised when your own remarks are discounted as not germane

[Infinite]

Now where was I - ah yes - the "dangling carrot" that leads from Affinity to Engrams to Clear - to Overwhelm - to Body Thetans. I'm still not sure I have an adequate handle on these Body Thetans.

HCOB 29 Jan 1980 The OT Drug Run Down states, inter alia:

Earlier drug cultures on the track were much worse than this drug culture. In some cultures the psychiatrist, priest and medico were all one and the same person and frequently used drugs. Some implanters used drugs, either as part of the implant incident or to keep a population enslaved thereafter. When BTs and clusters who have whole track drug incidents are restimulated by a this lifetime drug incident, there is a multiple restim, and if severe enough can form a new cluster composed of the BTs and clusters thrown into restimulation by the drug.

Couple of questions. What is a "cluster" - is it a group of two more BTs somehow joined together and, of so, what is the agent of cohesion?

As more of an aside, I note the above extract seems to indicate that a person taking drugs (medicinal or recreational) is actually making the whole Body Thetan issue worse. Would this be part of the reason why Scientology rejects medicine as innocuous as even aspirin (statin)?

[AlphOhm]

Opps, sorry--misread thread title as "Reactive Ingrams"...