Church of scientology, future OT levels teach telepathy and remote viewing?

[GoNuclear]

This thing about telepathy and remote viewing.

How do these abilities do anything at all to better the lives of people, reduce human suffering or increase compassion/love on this sorry little planet?

The ONLY thing these abilities would do is enable existing scumbags to cheat and better beat others in some "game of life". It would give them an edge - it would increase their odds in "winning".

Personally, I do not at all grasp HOW or WHY such abilities matter.

The answer to that one is easy. 1) more money 2) other chicks, mainly younger ones.

Pete

[Smilla]

So true. Occult abilities, psychic powers, and what are called Siddhis in eastern traditions, while possibly occurring naturally for some along some path of spiritual development, are NOT to be viewed as a primary or as a major goal.

Interestingly, Hubbard took the exact opposite view in Scientology, and made ADVANCED ABILITIES the total top-level key aim and goal for any participant. Hubbard codified and institutionalized what for many other spiritual practices had traditionally long been considered something to AVOID.

There is an idea that "with freedom comes responsibility", and that with power one must first attain a HIGH moral and ethical sense (NOT in Scientology terms). Hubbard's view and the view of Scientology is to give OT powers to any piece of shit human being who will pay the admission fee. Of course, there seem to be built in safeguards. Unless and until any person advances to a point of REAL and legitimate selflessness and compassion/tolerance, he or she will NEVER actually be able to develop any such abilities. Not on any permanent or stable level.

The notion that amazing advanced abilities can or will be bestowed upon weak, flawed, insecure ego-driven morons (Hubbard, and many Scientologists) is absurd. There is a reason that Alchemy and other spiritual practices involve long preliminary steps of "purification", where a being "burns out" all remnants of the personal and ego-related issues. THAT never happens in Scientology, and actually, involvement with Scientology often leads to the development of an even more solid version of an ego (the "Scientologist").

Until a person addresses the attachments and identifications of the personal, and jettisons them, he or she will NEVER attain to such abilities. Or, so I have been told and led to believe.

Scientology can NEVER succeed as it is setup. While possibly some of the advanced processes from the Creation of Human Ability might be useful to a "cleansed soul", they will have little or no effect on the type of person who makes it to the top of Scientology. These advanced abilities will remain largely subjective, fictional and quite delusional.

See, for all of Hubbard's talk and all of Scientology's pretentious concern for "ethics", they never actually deal with it in a way that addresses what needs to be addressed - the reasons why any person remains separate from all others, and why he or she fails to naturally and easily exhibit complete tolerance, compassion and understanding for ALL others.

So true.

I came to the conclusion a few years ago, that to be an ordinary, common-or-garden variety human, with an open mind and an open heart, is a great thing to be or to aspire to be. That in itself is a wonderful thing. There's no need for magic tricks, really.

[Smilla]

The answer to that one is easy. 1) more money 2) other chicks, mainly younger ones.

Pete

Well I'm sure that if that's what you want you'll be able to get it

[Mark A. Baker]

... The notion that amazing advanced abilities can or will be bestowed upon weak, flawed, insecure ego-driven morons (Hubbard, and many Scientologists) is absurd. There is a reason that Alchemy and other spiritual practices involve long preliminary steps of "purification", where a being "burns out" all remnants of the personal and ego-related issues. THAT never happens in Scientology, and actually, involvement with Scientology often leads to the development of an even more solid version of an ego (the "Scientologist"). ...

I'm largely in agreement with you on this with the caveat that grades level processing CAN be quite useful in assisting the process of spiritual 'purification', as can other processing actions such as the HRD & Dianetics. Unfortunately the church follows a schema in which the bridge format itself encourages getting through the individual levels in order to get onto the Next Big Thing.

That emphasis on acquisition & achievement undermines the potential for genuine spiritual gains to be made.


Mark A. Baker

[RBMM]

This thing about telepathy and remote viewing. How do these abilities do anything at all to better the lives of people, reduce human suffering or increase compassion/love on this sorry little planet?

Below is only my personal opinion.

I have some insight on remote viewing, being a trained remote viewer myself based on the original military methods developed by the CIA. I am also trying to get a private team established specifically using RV for humanitarian purposes. But first...

All the known OT levels do not really impress me at all. Not one single bit really. And although non-released level (if they exist at all) are tempting, it's more just curiosity on my part. I have to be honest though... the OT levels I have seen are amateurish in comparison to all the vast data that exists around the world. Perhaps to non-experienced or non-worldly people they might seem profound. More so decades ago. But 'secret' teachings do not at all require a long pre-training work-your-way-up process. Those are simply gimmicks to make the teachings seem more profound. And as everybody knows, based on Miscavige's behavior, access to sacred knowledge or such does not by default reflect that the keepers of knowledge are enlightened people. Even the real military knows the value in soldiers having a good nights sleep, hearty meals, and relaxation time. Yet the Sea Org, claiming to hold higher wisdom and knowledge, will burn people out without proper sleep and meals, many of which are children.

Sure, sometimes some pre-understanding is needed when it comes to learning 'spiritual based' technologies, and practice does take time. But as it stands now, I can literally train a 15 year old to learn how to remote view using the exact same military developed method; the teenager does not need ANY prior training or experience and can literally go from being a video game geek to a trained remote viewer in just a few months. The actual skill of course increases as practice continues.

Secret teachings and secret knowledge is in abundance out there, and frankly goes way beyond anything that LRH knew or researched in my opinion. This is simply due to the sheer volume of knowledge existing in our world, but is usually unavailable to the average person. All of you know this, so my words are simply reminders.

During the 50s, 60s, 70s... there was often a perception that rare knowledge only exists in rare books or manuscripts, but most often it usually revolved around trendy but non-common teachings like from Alister Crowley. Alister was only a famous occultist, out of many thousands around the world. But that knowledge base is simply a sliver or slice as to the depth or volume of knowledge that is out there in every country of the world.

In the 70s someone in America might get their hands on a rare book of rituals and thus think they acquired access to the highest level of info, meanwhile forgetting that there are sacred books in the Vatican vaults that will blow that rare paperback book out of the water. Hubbard did acquire a lot of info in his research, but there is absolutely no way he acquired the top info, nor reached anywhere near that. This is actually a common ego quirk when it comes to the spiritual community. More so if they acquire any sort of fame or following. In fact, leading people in the new-age community are actually some of the most stubborn minded people out there; claiming to be open minded, but actually pushing away any info that might disprove their reign of insight.

When I was 29 years old I stepped into a private Islamic library in Cairo and was literally floored at the type of rare Arabic manuscripts in there. But in no way did I feel it was the end all and be all of sacred knowledge. It was just a private collection, and those exists all over the world in abundance. I have also had the rare chance to see untouched tombs in Egypt that only a handful of people have ever seen. This again has zero to do with me reaching some sort of spiritual level, but rather the reality that native desert Bedouins in Egypt are aware of undiscovered tombs simply because they explored their own backyards. They keep it to themselves as they secretly steal items and sell them on the blackmarket. LRH never saw those tombs. But I have. Yet LRH supposedly is more divine than me? Likewise, I have never been in the Ethiopian church which claims to hold the Ark of the Covenant. But many Ethiopians have, including the family of the church caretakers, or tourists who may have bribed their way in. Are those tourists more divine than me or LRH? It's just all relative to ones location and access. One might stumble across more rare info if they sort of live in that mindset and have research interests in those fields, but that has nothing to do with graduating, so to speak, to a higher spiritual level. The Roman Catholic Pope certainly believes in God and that God created the universe, but that does not at all assume there is a God. The truth is NOBODY knows 100% if there is a God or not. Not even the Pope.

In fact, with all the advances over the decades in terms of discovery, archaeology, scientific development, alternative science, etc... LRH is really left in the dust in terms of comparing his material to all that is out there. A bunch of Freemasons in their private Masonic lodge might feel that their collection of books and manuscripts and rituals are the end-all and be-all of knowledge, yet in Japan there might be a university holding some ancient Japanese manuscripts which no westerner knows about. The Queen of England may have been crowned on her sacred and ancient Coronation Stone. But I know of a metropolitan family in Cairo who has a piece of the Mecca Stone in their attic, which was passed down for generations. Ancient relics are not limited to people who hold high positions. It even appears the Queen's lineage is also not the true lineage of the British Monarchy, when in fact the real Monarch (Mike Hastings) is a fork-lift driver from Australia (who just died last week by the way). His lineage appears to be more valid than the Queens, yet the Queen is deemed as the 'sacred' one while the true King enjoyed Kraft dinner and watching TV and hanging out with his kids. But shaking his hand... nobody will think he is anybody important simply because he isn't recognized by 'authorities' to be the true King of England. And this lineage discovery was discovered only fairly recently. Imagine all the more amazing discoveries we will learn about over the decades ahead.

Point is, Hubbard doesn't even come close to knowing, holding, or having the top or highest knowledge out there. Nobody does. At the time, some of his info was rare but it was only a tiny slice of what is out there, and his data was limited to the reach of his research. Nothing more, nothing less. Considering the billions of stars, galaxies, solar systems, and planets out there.... even if Xenu was real, that alone is a grain of sand in comparison to what is out there. There is probably an alien culture somewhere in the universe who might giggle at our space technology, calling us amateurs. Royal Raymond Rife was curing cancer back in the 1940s, yet ask any health professional at any top medical organization and they will say there is no cure for cancer. OT 10, OT 11, OT 500... minimal in comparison to the vast truth and volume of knowledge out there.

LRH had a great advantage without the internet, combined with his money and/or contacts. He could acquire info the average person usually doesn't. And it appears he made up the rest. But a teenager in 2012 has access to 10,000x more rare information and data just by going online via a $25/month internet connection and a laptop. So OT whatever... sure there might be useful knowledge in there but it's simply so minimal in comparison. And it's a tad arrogant to punk oneself off as holding the highest and mightiest knowledge. And frankly, the high price tag for his knowledge is simply fraudulent. It's actually a joke to me. 1,000 years ago a man might be able to say "I have piece of rock that came from outer space" and it might be deemed as extremely rare and he might be able to acquire a bag of gold if he sold it. Fast forward to 2012 and you can buy such rocks on eBay for $50.

If you want to learn remote viewing - true military remote viewing (not some new-agey meditation distorted version), I can point the way. Former military staffed remote viewers are in abundance out there and teach the process, without the insults of CoS control freaks. Regarding usages of RV.... that really depends on the practitioner. Once you learn RV you don't suddenly gain a higher wisdom or anything like that. It depends on what you target and what you chose to use the skill for. And actually, you have to be very precise on the objective. So for example a trained remote viewer will not know of the next terrorist attack unless they are specifically seeking out that information. The skill can be used for corporate espionage, finding gold, predicting the stock market, locating missing people, solving problems, looking at the dark side of the moon, finding your lost car keys, looking into David Miscavige's locked bank vault, finding out anything from the past, etc. Truly only limited by your imagination. This is quite powerful in terms of its potential. But without a doubt does NOT require any spiritual training or build up at all. Being trained as a chef certainly helps with regards the quality of the food dish being prepared. But anybody can buy a book of fancy restaurant recipes and create the same meal. Quality might be different, and the home cook might not have access to the best quality ingredients. But the knowledge and recipe formula is not divine or rare.

Often people assume 'if remote viewing is real how come missing kids aren't find en mass or how come remote viewers aren't winning the lottery day in and day out'. The answer is quite simple and can be described in the form of a question: How come people buy gym memberships but never end up going to the gym? RV can be time consuming. And just because one gains a skill does not mean they apply that skill daily. I know how to play chess, and I am pretty decent at it. But the last time I played must have been 10 years ago, although I have chess software right here on my computer. Remote viewing can really help with regards to humanitarian goals, but it really depends on the viewer as to how or if they want to apply their skills. It's similar to the fact that any human can learn CPR and life-saving skills, but most never chose to get trained on it. Even if trained on how to do resuscitation, they are usually not out there walking the streets looking for people who cannot breath. Or a more common example with regards to Scientology... thousands have been trained in supposed ethics and compassion and humanitarianism to such a high degree, but they didn't take charge 20 years ago and stop David Miscavige from destroying lives. Valid reasons perhaps, but still nobody kicked the crap out of him. Likewise with remote viewers and their skills. Not everybody follows through. Likewise with all people who have ears and can hear, yet those with active listening skills are quite rare.

Although I haven't seen OT 11 or whatever one it is, I would be suspect if it contained the accurate scientifically developed process of remote viewing as developed by SRI via CIA funding. So far, LRH appears to have a fondness to modify things according to his liking. Also, with the dislike towards psychiatry and psychology, I am not sure where it fits in with his teachings because remote viewing is really a psychological process. If not, I can guarantee though it is not a spiritual process at all. Just another human sense, per se, that is not dormant but in fact is alive and vibrant as much as our other senses are. I doubt LRH knew that remote viewing would be dismantled as a top secret military project and would be released to the public in the 90s.

Hubbard has some great concepts. But I personally feel no more than 2 years is need to learn those things. Perpetual high-cost training, with minimal emphasis on application, is sort of humorous in my opinion. And his unique or profound information is valid, but simply is minimal in comparison to the knowledge that is out there. So no ex-Scientology members are missing out on anything. And by the mere fact of stepping away from that controlled environment immediately increases the ability to acquire more information and data beyond what LRH claimed to have. Look at all the ex-org members speaking up against humanitarian crimes by the church. They are not a part of the church, yet they are displaying more wisdom, more ethics, more insight, more compassion, more caring than those within the church. And the efforts of ex-members are doing more to help the world than members themselves, in my opinion.

Once again, nothing I am saying is anything unique to me. Just common sense reminders.

If one wants to learn true remote viewing, without spending 20 years and $200,000, this $150 dvd course from a former military intelligence officer, who was involved in the CIA remote viewing program, might help:



If you are female and want to learn for free, send me a PM and I will point the way to a new female-only org.

[guanoloco]

So true.

I came to the conclusion a few years ago, that to be an ordinary, common-or-garden variety human, with an open mind and an open heart, is a great thing to be or to aspire to be. That in itself is a wonderful thing. There's no need for magic tricks, really.

Wasn't it Buddha that said, "It is rare to be born human."?

[guanoloco]

This thing about telepathy and remote viewing.

How do these abilities do anything at all to better the lives of people, reduce human suffering or increase compassion/love on this sorry little planet?

The ONLY thing these abilities would do is enable existing scumbags to cheat and better beat others in some "game of life". It would give them an edge - it would increase their odds in "winning".

Personally, I do not at all grasp HOW or WHY such abilities matter.

But then, I am no longer a sucker Scientologist.

People who need "extra abilities" to live a decent life as a human being MUST be "insecure" on some level. I realized, quite a long time ago now, that the trick is to be a decent, compassionate human being just as you are - you don't need anything else. You don't need to be able to pass one car through another or change MEST by the power of mind.

These advanced abilities and the desire for them indicate a flawed soul. It has always been that way in the occult world, in eastern practices, and it is that way NOW in Scientology. The desire for advanced abilities is a misplaced goal. It is a flawed aim. It is a misguided wish. The desire for such things takes one OFF and AWAY from any valid spiritual path. The ONLY way that such abilities "work" is when clothed within a system of love, compassion and toelerance, which is surely NOT any version of Scientology.

This is why the trap of Scientology works.

You can only get scammed by an appeal to your greed.

This is the appeal to your greed.

We all fell for it and we all had it coming.

The something for nothing - immortality for MEST money, incredible abilities to skip over the death amnesia and come back swinging right off the bat, the ability to be exterior and to "know" and to have one's postulates stick - cause and all that.

So what happens when everyone is OT? I guess the game is neutralized all over again!

There's a great line in the Disney Pixar film, the Incredibles, where the bad guy states that when he's done being a super hero he'll sell his gadgets to the world and that when everyone is a super hero no one will be a super hero.

[RBMM]

My official last post.

In reference to my long babbling about remote viewing, I made mention of Mike Hastings the probable true King of England (who died a week or so ago). For those interested, here is a 48 min documentary about him and his family. I present it with the following 4 reminders:

1) L Ron Hubbard and followers can never claim to have ownership over the top spiritual knowledge on the planet. The truth is, there is much more out there, including unknown factors and missing facts, such as demonstrated in this video.

2) Keep discernment when it comes to higher authority, and who claims to have it. It might be an illusion. The Queen of England may have literally stolen her authority, so to speak. If you are a scientology supporter, I urge you to reconsider that David Miscavige may also not be the true monarch of the church of scientology.

3) The profound is usually found in the ordinary. For example, backyard or garage inventors are usually deemed as invalid even though Troy Hurtubise created a machine that can see through walls or John Hutchison and his incredible anti-gravity discoveries done in his apartment lab. This caring family in Australia are just ordinary folks, yet in the historical scheme of things, they are actually the heirs of a royal bloodline. Profound, within the ordinary.

4) Consider the gentle and simple personality of this family, versus the current royal monarchy which maintains a long historical laundry list of horrors, crimes, and domination over the public which includes a fraudulent reign of power. Thus this video serves as a reminder of the importance of and the validity of each and every one of us, including each single slave child within the church of scientology. If given the opportunity, a single average person literally does have the capacity to create great change. Or, one never knows which individual out there will be that change maker. I guarantee that at least 50 children being held captive in the church of scientology are humans destined for greatest, yet that greatest has now been thwarted.

[DagwoodGum]

OT 8: Addresses the failure of the thetan to maintain his pan determined Viewpoint and remain unaffected by unpleasant experiences. (Pan: All. Pan determinism: Ability to control or be both sides of a game.)
OT 9: Deals with the Universe of Others. Telepathy.
OT 10: Adresses the subject of Postulates.
OT 11: Deals with Remote Viewing.
OT 12: Understanding about the Physical Universe, matter, energy, space, and time.
OT 13: Knowledge.
OT 14: Ability.
OT 15: Freedom.


I found these on a Freezone site.

And each of these "levels" you should be able to buy in a book explaining it so you can run it on yourself and friends for $29.95 just like you'll find all day long at Amazon.com. Lots of little books available on telepathy, astral projection etc. and the Scilon versions are just weirder based upon the demented mind of a sci-fi writer and probably more effective if not the very source works that Hubbard's writers lifted the ideas from.