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Thread: Doubt -- Gathering facts for actual evaluation

  1. #1
    Patron sheetmedal's Avatar
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    Jul 2008
    CA, USA

    Default Doubt -- Gathering facts for actual evaluation

    This is a general listing of things I've noted down and confirmed for myself through the last 4-5 weeks of looking. A lot of this stuff is really easy to confirm. This is a very rudimentary list -- i.e., I haven't gone into great detail, as it is mainly for my own reference. I am trying to put together a solid package of info to show others close to me, once I announce that I want out.

    Tech constantly being changed.

    Contrary to statistics boasted at Scientology events, actual expansion is either nil or negative.

    No real improvements made by those who've done lots of Bridge. There are those who've done lots of processing who are not able. There are those who were able already and have done lots of processing and are still able. There are those who were able already and did training and processing and now are still able.

    Not being allowed to have any other opinion or look at the real activities / statistics.

    Not being allowed to see or hear any other opinion. Being told it is a high crime to do so.

    Confidential materials. The materials are kinda silly. People coming out and saying what the confidential materials are and the church and OTs denying it even though there is solid evidence contrary to their denials.

    Org's publics donating millions to purchase and renovation "ideal orgs" instead of the orgs just becoming successful and paying for better facilities.

    Several corroborated reports of physical/mental abuse at the Int level.

    Missing senior execs. Seriously - where the heck are they?

    Senior execs that have left the SO/Scientology -- Ronnie Miscaviage, Mike Rinder, et al.

    New OT VIIs and OT VIIIs that have left Scientology.

    Class VI OTs that have left Scientology.

    A celebrity - Jason Beghe - that did tons of training and processing and was referred to by COB as "poster child" for Scn - left Scientology.

    I'd like others thoughts on this, and perhaps links to where the best sources of verifiable info are. Or just general comments -- whatever!


  2. #2
    Crusader Wisened One's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Wichita, Kansas, Toto!:)


    Add to that, Jenna.. COB's own NEICE leaves AND speaks out about it publicly on TV!
    The night I escaped Staff:

    I get really tired of hearing about how the lower bridge has value. The lower bridge has the sole purpose of getting the PC to reach for more bridge. The fact that many people improved their circumstances as a result of a good intentioned auditor being interested and caring about his PC is not worth the long term and intended result of Scientology technology. GT

  3. #3
    Gold Meritorious Patron gomorrhan's Avatar
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    Sep 2007
    virtual reality


    Wow, and you don't even mention the scores of reports of people who were disconnected from as SPs, even though they were making case gain and upstat, on this very site.

    Or the complete failure of the Sea Org to maintain confidentiality of the OT Levels (so the rubes wouldn't find out it was bullshit before they were "prepped")
    going somewhere?

    Scientologists: do you think you can confront the truth? <==== duplicate that

    Kevin G. Brady
    44 Phillips Street, Apartment 2L
    Wickford, RI 02852
    (401) 626-6776

    "I'm Kevin Brady, and I approved this message" - Kevin Brady

  4. #4
    Patron sheetmedal's Avatar
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    Jul 2008
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    See -- I was hoping to get some additions to the list. Keep adding!

    Another one is people being declared SP who don't have any of the characteristics of an SP as defined extensively by LRH. I know this for a fact -- several people whom I've known personally have been declared SP. My personal observation is that they don't have any of those characteristics, nor does their SP declare cite those characteristics.

  5. #5
    Gold Meritorious Patron Axiom142's Avatar
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    May 2008
    Sussex, England

    Default Where it came from.


    What about a good hard look at the ‘Source’ of it all?

    I don’t suppose any rational person would expect Hubbard to be a perfect human being. But, when you find out about his 3 failed marriages (and denying one wife completely), numerous affairs, lies about his personal exploits, dabblings in black magick and drug use, he doesn’t seem very credible as the source of the solution to life, the universe and everything.

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Siddhartha Gautama

    “He is tall, sort of dark, and sort of handsome. Well not ugly anyway.” - Terril Park on Axiom142

    Some of my videos:

  6. #6
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Mar 2007
    North-East England


    Add in something about the LIES told by official CofS spokesholes. I don't even need to get specific about it--find pretty much any public statement about anything controversial and see how truthful it is.


  7. #7
    Crusader Div6's Avatar
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    Apr 2007
    No Va, Md, DC


    Ashlee Shaner
    Lisa McPherson
    Moxon's daughter
    Freewinds Asbestos
    Keith Henson
    LRH's Death (vistaril per the toxicology report)
    Extravagance at Int level for 1 exec
    "Gang Bang" Sec Checks
    Suspension of Auditors Code
    Re-definition of FN
    Confusion over Clear\invalidating the State of Clear
    "Deception is the ethics of war." - John Singleton Mosby

  8. #8
    ab intra silentio vera paradox's Avatar
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    Jun 2008
    Right here. Where else!?


    Services priced outside the range of most able people. An implicit redefinition of the word able to mean only $-making ability, particularly those elite at the top upper percentile of economic earnings. Personal income is used as the primary (only?) statistic for measuring personal ability. This is comparable to the stat push days when Gross Income was assigned to the org's Executive Director/Commanding Officer as their and the org's primary statistic.

    The stated purpose of $cn is to make the able more able. Yet the majority of the able remain "wasted" because it is impossible to reasonably, intelligently budget $cn services into their lives without crippling their ability to actually make a living and violating the ages-old principle in economics of spending less than is earned. "Doing" $cn services is unrealistically disproportionate and distracting with respect to the sum total of family economic dynamics.

    The only definitions for ability in the tech dictionary are (there is none for "able"):

    Quote Originally Posted by $cn Tech Dict.
    ABILITY, to observe, to make decisions, to act. (SH Spec 131, 6204C03)

    ABILITY GAIN, the pc’s recognition that pc can now do things he could not do before. (HCOB 28 Feb 59)

    ABILITY RELEASE, expanded Grade IV release. (CG&AC 75) See GRADE IV

    ABILITY TO THINK, the capability of the mind to perceive, pose and resolve specific and general problems. (DASF, p. 90)
    The "church's" use of personal income as the primary statistic for measuring personal ability is an incorrect statistic for measuring the VFP of ability. Operating off such a statistic makes the goal of personal ability "to acquire more money."

    Personal opinion: even the idea of rigidly statisticizing personal production, let alone putting it into daily practice, as a means of "steering" one's way through life and living is anathema to me.
    It ain't what they call you, it's what you answer to.”
    You can fool some of the people some of the time -- and that's enough to make a decent living.”
    If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.”

    -- W.C. Fields

  9. #9
    Silver Meritorious Patron
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    Sep 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Dulloldfart View Post
    Add in something about the LIES told by official CofS spokesholes. I don't even need to get specific about it--find pretty much any public statement about anything controversial and see how truthful it is.

    If I recall correctly, part and parcel of scientology doctrine has to do with the concepts/principles of both gradients and the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. Thus, to cut to the chase scene, quoting someone on the internet (perhaps Zinj): Lying is a Scientology Sacrament. Under the guise then of performing that distinctly scientology religious ceremony called: providing an acceptable truth to the public/world, it all makes perfect sense. Lol.

    My essential point being "OFFICIAL CofS SPOKESPERSONS" are being faithful loyal and true to SCIENTOLOGY DOCTRINE Paul, not to Church Politics.


    P.S. Good luck in your continued endeavors Sheetmedal. I am inspired by you.


  10. #10
    Patron with Honors riptide's Avatar
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    Feb 2008


    Hmmm. Interesting. I was just getting ready to compile my own list and make it into an official statement.I agree with the above comments in addition, my own:

    The general PR stat of the Church has seen to have declined sharply.
    The number of OT's who have died in the last 5 years of cancer.
    Number of OT's who have left.
    # of new members on this board.
    # of negative stories on the net.
    # times a Scientologist cannot engage in an open conversation but instead "knee jerks" a canned retort from the data bank of his/her indoctrination.
    # of new starts in Div 6 in any org.
    # of Clears being produced.

    I could go on but I have to go work on my tan.

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