Broken promises

[Voltaire's Child]

That was a really good analogy to make the points that you were making.
You said a lot.

I wouldn't worry about how strong it sounds. This is an exes board. People who don't see it the same way you do have plenty of posts to read that support their perspective.

Hi,

Yeah, I think most people here feel the way I do. It's just that sometimes when I write something like that, someone comes in and says something about how can I say those things and still have (some) interest in (elements of) Scn.

Well, I can. I think CofS betrays everyone and has done for years. I also think LRH did that, too, when he was alive. One of the most interesting reads on that, IMO, was Dianetics in Limbo showing that even very early on, he was not being responsible and was greedy and unreliable.

This doesn't stop me from having interest in certain concepts but I'm so very very very very long long long past treating Hubbard as source, with or without the capital s. He screwed a lot of people over.

[Voltaire's Child]

Nice one.

Thanks.

This was how the conversation got started- I was saying to J the other day that I think that this is why critics of Scn are so angry and why this subject seems to fascinate the public (I mean public as in media, general population, not people taking services in CofS.) so much. People get caught up in it because of the promises and the sheer outrageousness of the broken promises that were broken in such a very cultic way. Really, CofS is quite blatant about it.

[Voltaire's Child]

Well gee, If you're say things like that, I'm going to have to say that i audit about 10-20 hours a week on somebody(ies), and have for decades, and furthermore, I couldn't agree with you more. I've done enough S&Ds to know that LRH was the SP! There doesn't need to be any more elaboration.

It's a shame, really. If he would have just stuck to creating processes, lecturing on theta, etc. I'll tell you what a big "ARC Break" I have with the guy- (and I wasn't ever in the SO, either. But this doesn't stop me from having opinions about it.)- and that's his creation of the SO. Some lady came to the Bellevue Mission years ago and said she'd worked with LRH and was there when he decided to create the SO. First he thought of a million year contract- but no, that wasn't dedicated enough. So then it had to be billion year one. And she was all enthused and people in the audience with the exception of the Wonder Husband and me were like "yeah!!".

But no, this billiion year contract stuff is crap. Yes, I know how they got most people interested. Dedication, a desire to change the world. Dn and Scn are methods that can effect positive change. As far as a world crusade goes? I have doubts because one cannot postulate for other people as to what they should believe and what they should do and have. Proselytization pisses people off. It's restimulative, it's annoying, it's even invalidative. (for other readers, please forgive the spate of Scnese. I'm using some ordinary verbiage too but wanted to say something to Carmelo about this stuff.)

The policies and some of the HCOBs and the FOs pertaining to staff work, contracts, etc, are so very wrong headed. He actually says he doesn't want to pay staff a good wage. That would be fine if it was really volunteer, no contracts, no penalties and no founders or COBs with Swiss bank accounts. But that's not the case, is it? What staff have is slavery. Hubbard set that up. Not DM, DM came in to the picture much later.

[CarmeloOrchards]

It's a shame, really. If he would have just stuck to creating processes, lecturing on theta, etc. I'll tell you what a big "ARC Break" I have with the guy- (and I wasn't ever in the SO, either. But this doesn't stop me from having opinions about it.)- and that's his creation of the SO. Some lady came to the Bellevue Mission years ago and said she'd worked with LRH and was there when he decided to create the SO. First he thought of a million year contract- but no, that wasn't dedicated enough. So then it had to be billion year one. And she was all enthused and people in the audience with the exception of the Wonder Husband and me were like "yeah!!".

But no, this billiion year contract stuff is crap. Yes, I know how they got most people interested. Dedication, a desire to change the world. Dn and Scn are methods that can effect positive change. As far as a world crusade goes? I have doubts because one cannot postulate for other people as to what they should believe and what they should do and have. Proselytization pisses people off. It's restimulative, it's annoying, it's even invalidative. (for other readers, please forgive the spate of Scnese. I'm using some ordinary verbiage too but wanted to say something to Carmelo about this stuff.)

The policies and some of the HCOBs and the FOs pertaining to staff work, contracts, etc, are so very wrong headed. He actually says he doesn't want to pay staff a good wage. That would be fine if it was really volunteer, no contracts, no penalties and no founders or COBs with Swiss bank accounts. But that's not the case, is it? What staff have is slavery. Hubbard set that up. Not DM, DM came in to the picture much later.

I have two friends (although I question my own self, as a friend to them), who I got into Scientology over three decades ago, who have been in the SO for over thirty-five years. It totally breaks my heart. Charlie Rush wrote me last year thanking me for getting him into Scientology, and handling his upsets. I wanted to barf. Laurie Noonan Douglas (as in Michael) Engelhart broke up with me, and soon thereafter, joined the SO. She's still there and with a kid committed to the same insanity. I feel so guilty about these two very nice people.

On the other side, my youngest daughter was a SO member in her last lifetime. She founded an org, and was a class Vll. She's going to Stanford now, and wants nothing to do with cults.

[Terril park]

Well gee, If you're say things like that, I'm going to have to say that i audit about 10-20 hours a week on somebody(ies), and have for decades, and furthermore, I couldn't agree with you more. I've done enough S&Ds to know that LRH was the SP! There doesn't need to be any more elaboration.

Hmmm. There is much data on the net to show LRH had feet of clay.

SP? Data on that also.

Yet he created the tech you use, or at least was the principal organiser.

How does this old mantra go? Don't do as I do, do as I say.

And then only if on much inspection you make it your own.

And then re-inspect.

[Terril park]

They sure don't!

IMO the biggest broken promise is the Creed. It should be something that would be at the base of all the doctrines within the "church", and something that should be prevalent amongst its crew, staff and public. Talk about extremes - the CofS employs the exact opposite of its own creed. So much for inalienable rights! What a joke!

Exactly. Reverse First Policy, Senior policy, and service PL

The Creed must overide all policy as it per definition fundamental belief.

[Zinjifar]

The relevant saying is:

'Consider the Source'

Zinj

[byte301]

I have said on this board more then once that I didn't come away with anything of value from $cientology. I've thought about that a lot lately reading posts on here and on other boards.

I have to say I've changed my mind about that. I found, and still find, ethics to be of great value. In fact my biggest wins had to do with ethics. I don't mean applying formulas or any of that. Just realizing that I AM responsible for my own condition and I am a happier being when I'm ethical. Those two cognitions were worth all the crap I went through while I was in. Those cogs may make me sound like a simpleton to a lot of people but I was so much younger then...I'm older then that now.

I don't credit LRH for that btw. He, I don't believe, had an ethical bone in his body. I think he just paraphrased what a lot of other people have said about ethics for centuries. If I'd studied philosophy I probably would have arrived at the same conclusion.

So I did find something in $cientology I want to keep. I may find more...you never know.

[Voltaire's Child]

:D

[byte301]

:D

LOL I didn't say I was gay Fluffy! Although that would probably be more acceptable to some around here.