Here are some links related to "OT," and whether or not Scientology's "OT levels" - including those of the 1970/71 Grade Chart - produce the state of "Operating Thetan."
http://forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=1079
http://forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=99932&postcount=8
Processing
In running a session, the moment you cease to address the clients wants and start to run what you think is "the next step", ie a grade or an action directed by the c/s or ethics, you are implanting the person.
Scientology is an implant technology. Clear and simple.
It is as basic as that.
Ok but how does that work with C/Sing a case and the aspects of the meter where it reacts on whats unknown to the pc but can be handled and addressed.Originally Posted by DartSmohen
Taking up a read even if the pc says he is interested is suggestive as the auditor was first interested in it and so evaluative for the pc.
Isn't then a program an evaluation and so all C/Sing tech is an implant tech.
Also the Q and A issue of changing with the pc.
eg I want to address Mom, but 1/2 way in he wants to tackle Dad. Nope changed my mind again lets talk about fish and BTs.
I don't disagree but then how do you define an Auditors role?
Hope to hear..
I'm inclined to agree with you. By the tech itself it is evaluation to assume what someone needs.
Yes, a program drawn up by another for the purpose of the client acheiving aOk but how does that work with C/Sing a case and the aspects of the meter where it reacts on whats unknown to the pc but can be handled and addressed.
Taking up a read even if the pc says he is interested is suggestive as the auditor was first interested in it and so evaluative for the pc.
Isn't then a program an evaluation and so all C/Sing tech is an implant tech.
Also the Q and A issue of changing with the pc.
eg I want to address Mom, but 1/2 way in he wants to tackle Dad. Nope changed my mind again lets talk about fish and BTs.
I don't disagree but then how do you define an Auditors role?
Hope to hear..
stated goal (ie grade) is an evaluation and is implanting.
Also the reliance on a meter to "guide " you.
All these meters are vastly over-rated. The best and most reliable meter there is, is the client themselves.
OK,so you say the meter "reads" below the level of conciousness of the client and this gives the auditor an item to look at.
Well, that is pure and straight implanting.
The very fact that it is below the client's level of awareness prooves that it is not the NOW area they have their attention on. It may well come up soon after, but at that moment in time it is NOT where the client's attention is at.
The role of the auditor is to be there with the client and for the client.
The client brings something up. That is where his attention is at. ~There is some force, mass or charge present, or he would not have mentioned it. You can use your skills to work with the client in blowing that charge out
Having handled that to the point where the client is back at cause, you see what his attention is on now. That will be the next piece of charge in presence time. If there is nothing he has his attention on and is really blown away, then you end off and come back into session when the client has some area they have their attention on.
This is processing for the client.
It is not rocket science.
The vast number of people who experienced Scientology have constructed, for themselves, a "comfort zone". They have assumed that what was run on them was for their benefit. In fact many of them will say how much they gained from these actions. But, at the end of the day, what real benefits did they gain? Oh, some will say their lives changed for the better. I have no doubt they did. But for the majority the outcome was one of heavy expense, personal humiliation, broken families and marriages and a feeling that they had to start all over again.
No wonder there are many very pissed-off folks out there, ready to put the cult to the sword.
A study in California in the 1970's into many "ologies" and "isms" came up with a startling finding. The actual procedures were irrelevent. What gave the client the case gain was having someone there they could communicate with.
That is what an auditor is; someone who is there, unconditionally, for the client.
Yes. This is what I have been discovering for myself since being out. I was trying to see if there was any gain or rightness in what I had done in Scientology. I came up with just what you are saying. Yet the implanting was extremely heavy, and hard to get past.
After several decades of indoctrination in the cult I had come to know or believe that anything right about me was because of Scientology. I now know or believe that anything right about Scientology was because of me.
Thank you again Dart.
GT
Yes, a program drawn up by another for the purpose of the client acheiving a
stated goal (ie grade) is an evaluation and is implanting.
Also the reliance on a meter to "guide " you.
All these meters are vastly over-rated. The best and most reliable meter there is, is the client themselves.
OK,so you say the meter "reads" below the level of conciousness of the client and this gives the auditor an item to look at.
Well, that is pure and straight implanting.
The very fact that it is below the client's level of awareness prooves that it is not the NOW area they have their attention on. It may well come up soon after, but at that moment in time it is NOT where the client's attention is at.
The role of the auditor is to be there with the client and for the client.
The client brings something up. That is where his attention is at. ~There is some force, mass or charge present, or he would not have mentioned it. You can use your skills to work with the client in blowing that charge out
Having handled that to the point where the client is back at cause, you see what his attention is on now. That will be the next piece of charge in presence time. If there is nothing he has his attention on and is really blown away, then you end off and come back into session when the client has some area they have their attention on.
This is processing for the client.
It is not rocket science.
The vast number of people who experienced Scientology have constructed, for themselves, a "comfort zone". They have assumed that what was run on them was for their benefit. In fact many of them will say how much they gained from these actions. But, at the end of the day, what real benefits did they gain? Oh, some will say their lives changed for the better. I have no doubt they did. But for the majority the outcome was one of heavy expense, personal humiliation, broken families and marriages and a feeling that they had to start all over again.
No wonder there are many very pissed-off folks out there, ready to put the cult to the sword.
A study in California in the 1970's into many "ologies" and "isms" came up with a startling finding. The actual procedures were irrelevent. What gave the client the case gain was having someone there they could communicate with.
That is what an auditor is; someone who is there, unconditionally, for the client.
Quite so, old chap, quite so.
That is how the main Paul's Robot stuff works, of course.
Paul
It does, good analogy.
The rowing events at the recent Olympics bring this to mind.
The Scn cult boat has developed several leaks,it has a psychotic, screaming and abusive cox, ranting and bullying the rowers, who, in turn, are busy shouting at each other, writing reports about the poor rowing, sec-checking each other, trying to stop others from trying to dive overboard and swim to the shore and generally abusing the one poor sod who has lost his oar and is splashing his hand in the water,
On the shore are the fanatical team cheerleaders who are instructing their captive public when to clap, give all their money for watching this performance and generally trying to ignore the growing crowds of ex-supporters and anons who stand back, waving, smiling, offering cake and encouraging the cult crowd to get into com.
Now we have the boats from the others. They are pretty well relaxed, they are in comm with each other, they have a good idea what is expected of them, their cox's have a plan and have, at least, told their rowers what they will be doing.
The funny thing is that between the Freezone crews there is actually no contest. No one is trying to outdo the other, they are all there to enjoy the event.
The cult boat, however, has threatened dire consequences if they do not win. Their cox will not take any blame but will punish the rowers.
Sound familiar?Also, the Scn boat is leaking after not having had any pre-race checks after the person who thought this was necessary and tried to bring it to the cox's attention was accused of "spreading entheta."
"You're either a stranger or a prisoner. That's the choice."
- Michael Ventura
And one of the rowers brought 200lbs of books to sell.
You know what, guys?
I was always told that OT VIII is only the FIRST, real, 'positive gain' OT Level, so very few (if any) are gonna have/demonstrate 'ot powers' etc..
'Course I'm convinced now that that's only a ploy....I mean, didn't lrh do all the way to ot 15? And if not, why didn't he? Can ya do all the way to 15 'in a body'? And why hasn't anyone else, yet? (I mean in the INT levels, if they are 'so powerful', so that they can then operate in life from the 'highest point'....then release it?
These are questions I had while still in!
Ya know?
The night I escaped Staff:
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost....2&postcount=33
I get really tired of hearing about how the lower bridge has value. The lower bridge has the sole purpose of getting the PC to reach for more bridge. The fact that many people improved their circumstances as a result of a good intentioned auditor being interested and caring about his PC is not worth the long term and intended result of Scientology technology. GT
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