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Thread: Tag end, of the catalyst for me & parts of a story

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Somersby, NSW, Australia

    Default *Tag end* of the catalyst for me, & parts of a story.

    If I ever wrote/write my story, the following would be at the tag end of it. Recently, some stuff has “shifted” for me, and for my hubby (who now has less concern re me maintaining my anonymity on this message board). ANZO has been so “sheltered” in so many respects. While there are many indicators that so much needs “rectifying” - on the surface for so many around these parts, it CAN seem that the “the Org” is more on track than not, in the pursuit of “Freedom”.

    Well, not so I would think, and some time ago realised. It is not always at is seems. Why are the vast majority of the OL’s of the past (opinion leaders), and those who “stood up” in the name of “freedom”, now so long gone and nowhere to be seen? For those of you who have asked, and for those of you who know me, the following is what went down just before I left. It’s not been so noble of me, to withhold it to date – as I know it may impinge on folks who know me/knew me, who are still sitting on the fence. The atrocities going on within the CofS, aren’t just “make believe”, and few and far between in some remote place like the USA. They happen here to, and soon you’ll be hearing more from others, who have copped it hard in our own back yard.

    We’ve all had our different experiences, but from my experience, any and all in ANZO who have tried to carry that Flag for “freedom”, who have fought for sanity within the ranks and who have refused to “give in” to the “mental compliance” required by the powers that be – have been persecuted to the point of submission, or have left. The following is part of the story as to why I left.

    The last straw (97/98):

    I had already been through 6 months of arbitrary ethics handlings, and six intensives of sec checking (at my expense), because I wasn’t complying and/or wouldn’t comply and change my “think”, in regard to whacko org management intervention on a dissem cycle I did, and because of where I was at on the “church” and its general operating basis. They found no “heinous crimes” during my sec check and had nothing on me, and supposedly exhausted all avenues in regard to “handling” me - but that’s another story (as a note, I was a “public” at this point, although prior in my Scn history, I held senior tech and admin posts in the org, as well as power fsm status in the field). I thought I was through and could finally “walk” without a “label” (slide out the back door so to speak).

    It was Jan 98 and I had just gotten back from a trip back to NZ for a family reunion/holiday, with my husband and boys. I had thought I was “done” at the org, prior to leaving on holiday, but I was called in “urgently”. If it were not for the fear of my kids having to choose between me and Scientology – down the track, I would have said “get fucked, I’m out!”, but at that time, this was of major concern to me. I gained so much from Scientology, and I didn’t want my kids to be denied the gains that I had made (easy to see in hindsight, that this was foolish – especially now, given that I know the actual scene). Mistakenly, I had decided to play this out, and wanted to slip away quietly without an SP declare.

    I went in as “ordered” and was confronted with a KR (knowledge report), from a Scientologist who we had a bit to do with, some years earlier. We’ll call this scn’ist Bob (I won’t name him, I care for his family and he was just a pawn in the game – if anything, I feel sorry for him).

    The KR from Bob, stated that I supposedly had an affair with Bob, some 6 years before. It gave some specifics like; we didn’t actually have sex, we just “heavy petted”; he licked me out several times, but I didn’t return the favour; we had a very sensual shower one time; this “affair” reportedly went on for 3 months, at a time when I was running the Class V org; that one of my selectees knew we were having this affair; and I can’t recall what else it said. Nor can I recall every detail or sequence of events – but some things stick in my mind – and that’s what I will tell you about.

    I went into shock! – Big time! I knew this guy was a huge “dub-in” case, as did most who knew him (he would make stuff up, then believe it, we reckoned). I was saddened, as I had affinity for the guy, his wife and family. I didn’t get where this had come from. My hubby had given him work, when he needed it. And I had done a marriage handling, on him and his wife (she was a doll). Things between Bob and I hadn’t been great, but nor had they been bad.

    I objected to the KR being given any credibility, let alone being acted on – for several reasons. At the time, I thought, these reasons would/should have been clear and unquestionable to anyone who had a brain, or to any scn’ist who new ethics tech:
    - It was written by a “psych case”, who had never finished a major course in Scn, and one who had no “stats” or “products” (while that may mean little to me, it would normally be highly relevant to an ethics officer)
    - It was referring to a time when I was ED of an org, and doing very well with that org. Highest Ever Paid Comps for years (the org’s main stat), just recently uncrossed cash/bills (“solvent”), and $250,000 of previously not confronted refund requests handled or paid out. Staff were winning and so were public. The “affair” was reportedly to have taken place at this time (another point that should have/would have been very relevant to an ethics officer)
    - Per “Second Dynamic Rules” policy letter, ethics orders, punishment or discipline for 2D activities should not be the business of orgs and not administered.
    - I could get evidence, that the report was bullshit, and I gave specific examples.

    ...but alas, not so. My objections and data were negated/denied. And my question re "WTF relevance does this have anyway?" was continually ignored.

    I had to hang around for a while. I was sitting and stewing. Then Shane Brockdorff - an old flat mate of mine, co TTC member (we “trained” together), once Snr C/S ANZO, and Class 9 auditor, turned up to “audit” me. He used to be my friend, but this night, he was as cool as a cucumber toward me. This is a guy, who knew who I was, and what I was, and what I had done/”achieved” within the Scn ranks.

    “1st interview”

    I saw the CO OSA (Vicky Hannah), the RTC mission I/C, and the RTC mission MAA go into an auditing room. Then Shane took me into the auditing room next door, and began an “INAY” (I’m not auditing you)”session” of course. He had an ear piece in his ear, and I could see that the live “camera” in the room (intended for auditor training), was on. I got quite fearful at this point. I knew those dudes next door were about to witness what was gonna go down. I had had months of punishment and insanity from those two fascist type missionaries (fired directly from and run by DM), and my adrenalin started pumping. I took the cans, and Shane started questioning me for withholds – straight up! I couldn’t believe it. The comm cycle (conversation) went something like this:

    Me: WTF are you doing? You’re asking for my overts with Bob, and trying to pull withholds on me, without any standard sessioning, no sleep check, no food check, no metab, and no ruds?
    Shane: What did you do with Bob?
    Me: Excuse me!!!!!!!! WTF? What are you doing? What is this? That’s a listing question, and you aren’t even giving a fuck about a read on the question!
    Shane: I know you had an out 2D with Bob, What did you do?
    Me: I can’t believe this, what are you doing? We trained together? That’s not a confessional or sec check question. That’s a fucking listing question. You know as well as I do the meter reads on “yes”, so WTF are you doing, what tech are you applying with this random “steering” ?
    Shane: I want you to tell me about your out 2D with Bob. What did you do?
    Me: So you are willing to persist with this fiasco, and piss on all your training and the tech, cause you’d rather follow the orders of miscavige and his henchmen, than get toasted?

    At this point, Shane went “red”, and said we’d be taking a break. (he obviously was told to stop there, and went into the room, where the spectators were watching and controlling the “session”). I heard the yelling.
    Shane came back, put ear piece back in his ear, and continued. He was very surley with me. He proceeded with “your needle is dirty”. I responded with “well of course it’s fucking dirty – you are invalidating the fucking shit out of me! We did e-meter drills together REMEMBER!!! Why would it be fucking clean when you are being such a fascist c’nt!

    Shane just kept on, and I kept bucking and rejecting. So lucky I was trained, and didn’t put my “case” or myself in his “hands”. I knew what he was doing was SO DAMN off the wall, that I was gonna remain cause at all cost. I was scared though, and I was shaking uncontrollably at one point. I could fight, and I kept fighting, but inside I felt terrified and trapped. I was very confused and felt my world was caving in me. It took me all the strength I could muster to hang in there.

    I kept insisting to Shane that he wake the fuck up, and look at what he was doing, and get some balls for god’s sake and stand up to the nazi mongrels who were forcing him to do this, but the same line of questioning just went on and on. It took me everything to hold back the tears, but I did. I didn’t want to give the pricks who were watching, the gratification of seeing me “crack”/”fold”. I kept insisting that he get Bob in, that he get the two of us together, and that I would/could prove that Bob’s KR was full of dub-in (bullshit), on Bob’s part.

    Finally, the session and the battle, came to an end (I thought). Vicki Hannah (CO OSA) came in, and said that Bob was there, and that she was wanting to talk with Bob and I. I stayed in the room. In walked Bob, out walked Shane, then Vicki started to talk.

    Bob gave his story. I was furious! I wanted to fucking deck the bastard at that point. I was bursting with anger and frustration, my blood was boiling, but I had to sit and listen to his account of events. I kept staring at him. If looks could kill, yes – he would’ve been dead. I bit my tongue and copped it – til it was my turn.

    Finally it was my turn for a response. I wanted to yell and scream and cry, but knew that I had to contain myself, if I wanted to make a point. The following is pretty roughly the conversation that went down, between Bob and myself, with Vicki there arbitrating. It may sound crude and/or rude, but the dialogue between us, shows that Bob was bullshitting. Please see it, in that light. It went something like this:
    (Note: I was confronting him, looking at him while he either had his head down or was looking out the window into the dark)

    Me: So, you say, we had an affair for 3 months, but never actually fucked?
    Bob: That’s right!
    Me: Why didn’t we fuck Bob? If we were so passionately in love with each other, and had the opportunity, why would we not? We were adults for chrissake, not bloody teenyboppers?
    Bob: I don’t know, we didn’t need to.
    Me: Oh come on! Why would we not fuck if we were so passionately in love?
    Bob: That’s the point, we were in love, and we didn’t need to. (I gave up on that one!)
    Me: So per your KR, you licked me out on several occasions, but I never sucked YOU off?
    Bob: That’s right
    Me: Did I ever offer, or was I just happy for a one way flow?
    Bob: You offered but I refused!
    Me: Excuse me???
    Bob: I just wanted to satisfy you, wasn’t in it for myself
    Me: You mean to say, that here was a woman who you were passionately in love with, wanting to suck you off, and you were refusing the offer?
    Bob: Yep!
    Me: Well that’d be a fucking first, especially in this bloody country! You’d be a rare one BOYO!!!
    Bob: I am a rare one, and I pride myself on it. (bloody lovely! Gave up on that one too)
    I had all sorts of comments at that point, and Vicki pulled me up on my obscenities, and put me back on track.
    Me: What about the shower? (a whole crew of us were having a weekend away. Bob and I went there two hours earlier (with my kids) than the rest of the four families, because we were the ones who were free to get there and get everything working and warmed up in the daylight, before the rest of the crew arrived there in the dark. At this big old empty mansion in the Blue Mountains, the water was nearly frozen in the pipes, and it was cold and damp when we got there. We spent about an hour and a half, making it warm and welcoming for those who were to arrive shortly after).
    Me: So you say we had a romantic shower when we got to there, before the others arrived?
    Bob: Yep
    Me: What about the fact that the water was all but freezing at the time, and that it took til the next morning to get hot water through the pipes? A romantic cold shower in the blue mountains in August – are you fucking kidding me?
    Bob: Didn’t matter, we were in love.
    Me: Come on! In that freezing water, your cock would have shrivelled up and disappeared – How romantic would that be? What did we do in the fucking shower?
    Bob: We just loved each other, we didn’t notice the cold.
    I turned to Vicki – “Don’t you see how absurd this is? He’s in a fucking dream world! Can’t you SEEEEE that? Vicki said to me “Do you have any other questions for Bob?”. I said “yes”.
    Me: So, if we were having a shower when we first got there, where were my kids?
    Bob: They were in bed asleep.
    Me: Well there ya go! The others got there for dinner a couple of hours after us, and my kids were still up and played with the others when they arrived. Didn’t go to bed for two hours later.

    I turned to Vicki – “Obviously this “story”/”fantasy, doesn’t wash. I would hardly leave my 3,4 and 6 year olds to their own devices in a strange environment, running around high balconies, stairs, ponds, pools and the like with no supervision, would I? He says they were in bed. Come on!!! – like I could say to my extremely active young men “come on boys, mummy’s just going to go and have some slap and tickle in the shower with Bob (and before Daddy gets here), so I just need you to have a little sleep for a while, OK?. Yeah right!!! I was furious and I was getting more than slightly sarcastic with the lack of any sane response from Vicki on the matter. What more did I have to say?

    Vicki: We’ll leave it there then.
    Me: So do ya get it now? Will ya drop it now?
    Vicki: Thanks Bob.... then she looked at me.....I’ll be back soon.

    STUPID me, felt relieved...of course I had proved that this guy was living in a fantasy land.....but not so apparently........the interrogation continued.

    Shane: So what did you do with Bob?
    ME: WTF??? Isn’t that cleared? It’s more than apparent that Bob is bullshitting/in a fantasy land, and you are still persisting with this crap line?
    Shane: Tell me about the sex between you and Bob?
    Me: WTF? C’mon Shane, ya can’t tell me that some guy is gonna turn away getting sucked off by a woman he is “passionately in love with”, or have a cold shower in the blue mountains in August. Surely you see the outpoints/ the discrepancies – he’s dubbing in for god’s sake – nothing happened
    with him and me. It’s more than apparent that he’s bullshitting. Wake up. Don’t do this. How will you sleep tonight? Tell those fuckers next door to get fucked. This is INSANNNE!!!

    Argued for some time, and then...

    Shane: Have you ever had physical contact with Bob?
    I’d had enough, thought “OK, will tell ‘m what he wants” Christ, I just wanted out – and all my reasoning wasn’t getting me there.
    Stupid me: Yeah, while dancing one night.

    One night, I put on a Pirates and Wenches party for my staff and public who we had come to know and love. It was at my home, we had put nets up all over the place and mocked it up as a ship. And yes, all the girls came as wenches, and the boys came as pirates. We had about 200 people there. Just like all the girls, I was dressed up as a “wench” – had some cleavage showing – oh my god! We all had a great night. During the evening I had danced with Bob, and just about every other bloke there. And yes, we all had fun with each other. The usual female/male attentions (that come so naturally and feel so good) were running high. But as usual, we all knew where the line was and didn’t cross it. I certainly didn’t even get near that line with Bob, let alone cross it. I danced with him to some slow supertramp track, and yes our hips were touching at one point and yes my tits were obviously touching his chest (whoopdy bloody do!!!). Big deal – aren’t they always when a man and woman have a slow dance?

    You’d think that I had seduced him and taken him to the bedroom and fucked his brains out – given the questioning from Shane, the accusations and the amount of time spent on one bloody absolutely NOTHING dance! “weren’t you being sluttish and provocative showing your cleavage?” “wouldn’t having your hips touching, been turning him on?” Weren’t you getting turned on with your breasts against his chest?” etc, etc, etc, for about an hour and a half. I argued “no overt there baby!” he argued “how could that not be an overt?” I argued “not per my moral code”. It went on and on.

    Finally, Shane said – we’ll leave it there. He was escorting me out, and told me to go and wait in a certain area. I said “no examiner hey?” (I knew there wouldn’t be). I said he should maybe give himself an instruct on “Illegal Auditing” HCOB (tech bulletin).

    Vicki saw me. It was now say 3.30am (I had been in the org on this cycle for seven and a half hours). She said that I should go home and get some rest – lovely! Had to be up at 6.30am next morning to get kids to school, and me to work. I went home. Quite numb, and very “lossy”, very drained and spaced.

    That was the first “interview”. Pushing the submit button on this will help me get the confront up, to tell you about the second - the following night. And for those of you, who can’t understand why I would subject myself to that, I can only say at this point, if ya haven’t “been there”, ya wouldn’t understand, but I can try and explain at a later point.
    Last edited by Carmel; 10th March 2010 at 12:49 PM. Reason: No edit - Tried to edit title, but didn't work.

  2. #2
    Genuine Meatball SchwimmelPuckel's Avatar
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    Jul 2007


    So.. What was it that made Bob such an 'asset' at this time? - Did he inherit? - Were they recruiting him?

    Outrageous as this story is.. I'm not surprized at all.

    During my first sessions at Copenhagen org.. That was Book and Bottle, touching walls.. Someone, maybe the EO, was watching the sessions through the keyhole in the door. (This was before there was videocams). They were suspicious of my female auditor it would seem... I learned this years later from a woman who was there, and became my friend.

    Ask not what Scientology can do for you, ask what the F#*¤CK is going on!

  3. #3
    Patron Supra's Avatar
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    Aug 2008
    Central Coast Australia

    Default Unbelievable

    FAR F######G OUT. Isn't it good to know that someday OSA will read this.

    And I've had some run-ins with Shane too, but nothing like that.

  4. #4
    Patron with Honors Mrs Pattycake's Avatar
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    Jul 2008


    OMG !!! ... RTC - but those are the "good folk" that are there to keep the tech pure and standard and make sure that the results are gotten from correct application - No ???

    So their stated intention and actions don't match what are they really doing ??? Really ???

    Seriously, I'm glad you were so well trained that you spotted what they were up to straight away and was able to hold your ground - I can only imagine that your story is going to get worse - since they didn't succeed in turning you into a blubbering mess with that ... I'll keep posted.
    What Is Scientology ? Find Out For Yourself ...

    and ... Yes - Something Can Be Done About It !

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Somersby, NSW, Australia


    Quote Originally Posted by SchwimmelPuckel View Post
    So.. What was it that made Bob such an 'asset' at this time? - Did he inherit? - Were they recruiting him?
    Not all, none of those things.

    I rang "Bob's" wife the next day. I was trying to fugure out where all this was coming from. She apologized for her husband's behaviour. She said that she and Bob, were in the process of splitting. She said that she knew the whole thing was BS - just another one of Bob's fantasies. She thanked me profusely for all the help I had given them in the past, said how good their relationship was after the "marraige handling" I did for them, and was so sorry for the crap I was now going through at Bob's doing. She said that some years ago, he'd told a mutual mate, about what he would have liked to have happened. In recent times, with me in "trouble", the mate told his wife, who was good friends with the mother of an arch enemy of mine in OSA.

    She said that the mate's wife and the mother of the OSA crew member, were at their place for two whole days, hounding Bob to write the KR. She said that he didn't want to, and that he refused to, but then finally gave in and did as they requested, after a couple of days.

    Obviously, certain people wanted a "head on a pike", and wanted something on me. This is all they could get. And it worked - it sullied my reputation within the class V orgs, and within the AO, and some of the field. And, it got rid of me. About three later, it came out that Bob had been "lying" about the whole affair, but by then of course it was too late. People already "knew" that I had a "gross" out 2D sit, which was the cause of me "leaving", and sitting out in the field "motivating". My supposed "out 2D" was publicised widely - of course the fact that this was based on fabrication, and in actual fact just used in an effort to make me pull my head in, was never publicised or broadly issued.

  6. #6
    Patron with Honors
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    Aug 2008

    Default OMG

    Unbelievable!!! ......well after everything I've read here lately I guess it's not. Well done on sharing this with us Ceedia... (I'm interested in Part 2)
    Cheers, Jakadak

  7. #7
    Gold Meritorious Patron EP - Ethics Particle's Avatar
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    Jul 2008

    Smile Applause Applause - and an offer....

    [...text deleted... And for those of you, who can’t understand why I would subject myself to that, I can only say at this point, if ya haven’t “been there”, ya wouldn’t understand, but I can try and explain at a later point.[/QUOTE]

    But, dear Ceedia, there are many, myself included, who were "there" and who do understand all too well! Impossible to adequately express appreciation for your beautifully presented story. with more to follow...

    Now! Did I MISS the GENDER change? :D

    Ol EP LIKE very much this new DATA! An offer, dear girl: If "hubby" go "ex-hubby" or sumphin - maybe I come help you with those boys of yours, and if any others should come along in due course...Well that would be an added bonus and a world of fun, wouldn't it?

    Hawks VERY powerful animal totem! Be careful now...

    Roy, the EP's EP

  8. #8
    Madam ESMB Emma's Avatar
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    Jan 2007


    Roy, you can't run off with every single girl on ESMB!

    It's not practical.

    Ceedia, I know both Shane & Vicky very well. I know what a heavy handed asshole Shane can be. I don't envy you being in that situation. Kudos to you for holding your space.

  9. #9
    Gold Meritorious Patron EP - Ethics Particle's Avatar
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    Jul 2008

    Talking Clarifyin' "sit" Emma Darlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Emma View Post
    Roy, you can't run off with every single girl on ESMB!

    It's not practical.

    Ceedia, I know both Shane & Vicky very well. I know what a heavy handed asshole Shane can be. I don't envy you being in that situation. Kudos to you for holding your space.
    Emma, Sweetie! There PLENTY EP's to go round!

    Love ya madly,


  10. #10
    Patron with Honors
    Join Date
    Jun 2008


    Hi Ceedia,

    Wow, what an amazing story and how disgraceful of scientology to treat anyone like that. I just can’t imagine how awful it felt.

    Firstly, even to be accused of a “crime” is intensely distressing, and I know this as it has happened twice in my life, one recent and one many years ago. Both times were as a result of someone’s overactive imagination, with a sprinkling of emotional manipulation thrown into the mix. The recent one was instigated by 2 scientologists,and appears to be borne out of my recent departure from scientology. But when they were challenged to provide specifics and back up the accusations they just backpedalled out of it. But it was distressing and time-consuming nevertheless.

    I also want to make a wider point, which is that your experience is indicative of scientology “justice” in general. What about the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. What about your right to have representation? Scientology has no regard for the standards of justice laid down over centuries, standards which are there to protect the innocent.

    You were able to stand up to this onslaught remarkably well and you did demonstrate the falsity of the accusation with logical argument, even though they still stupidly persisted with it for several years. However, imagine someone less capable than yourself, what protection would they have from this situation? Many people would have just given false confessions under this stress, as is well known in criminal law. Again this is something which is protected against in most democratic countries. But scientology pays no regard at all to the concept of protection of the innocent – honestly, what kind of justice is “heads on pikes”!

    Ceedia, well done on getting this story out, it can't have been easy. And I really look forward to hearing what happened next.


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