Introduction to the Group

[MarkWI]

[...] He's been doing it for 10+ years. They just don't care, but he produces new SO members. What is really funny, is that his stat is new members, but members that STAY. Perhaps that is the problem. Selecting the wrong people, the gullible to join, and then abusing them. [...]

Who cares if the people they recruit, have been recruited with lies and harassment and they will not last? If they graduate from the EPF then the Sea Org already won free labour and the extortion hook of the freeloader bill.

Welcome Voldemorte!

[Kathy (ImOut)]

Welcome, Voldemorte. I say start where you want and we'll be happy to read. Especially if you're newly out, we'd (or at least I) enjoy what is recently happening. Did the Ship actually sail for the maiden voyage? Did the public get told about the asbestos? What are the number of public in the orgs?

[thetanic]

We later found out that this recruiter has a track record of this, and, here is the kicker. . . Everyone Knows. He's been doing it for 10+ years. They just don't care, but he produces new SO members. What is really funny, is that his stat is new members, but members that STAY. Perhaps that is the problem. Selecting the wrong people, the gullible to join, and then abusing them. Most children, let alone teenagers are not clear enough in their life goals to even decide who they are, let alone what they want to become. It is our job as parents to protect them and help them develop them. THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO JOIN, just based on this fact, and the church pressures and threatens parents.

I'm so not surprised, but I am disgusted.

[anonmom]

A big welcome to you, Voltemorte! All of your stories that you would like to tell are very welcome on this board.

The abuse that I saw to children in the SO and RPFers got to me the most. Finding out that they force you to get an abortion if you get pregnant even when married finally snapped me into the reality of this "church". I ran after only being in the SO for 1 year and that was over 20 years ago.

It sounds like you are doing great. I hope your wife is as well.

[Wisened One]

voldemorte.

Oh God, reading your story brought back memories of when the SO tried to recruit my then-12 yr old daughter...they were visiting our local mission here and she was on a learning course and very new to scn....

These two ladies showed her slick pictures of places like that new building in CW and of pretty gyms with new equipment in them and how 'cool' it would be, etc.etc...

By the time they brought hubby and I into the room, it was near midnight and they wouldn't let us go...we all just signed the stupid contracts, did their dance (their 'oaths' ya take) and then we BURNED ALL OUR CONTRACTS

and whenever they'd call:

'You have the wrong number' :D

LOL.

GLAD your son never joined and is safe and that you are out!

You keep typing now...ya hear?

[voldemorte]

Welcome, Voldemorte. I say start where you want and we'll be happy to read. Especially if you're newly out, we'd (or at least I) enjoy what is recently happening. Did the Ship actually sail for the maiden voyage? Did the public get told about the asbestos? What are the number of public in the orgs?

Hi again everyone, and thank you for your responses.

Regarding the ship, NOTHING is communicated about it inside. I didn't find out until I started searching and ran across it.

Regarding the orgs, it is actually pretty interesting. The Fort Harrison (temporarily the new building while they are renovating the FH) seems like a ghost town. I have been over there many times in the last few years, and it always struck me funny at how dead it seemed. It's like a ghost town. The AO on the other hand had been booming. Very crowded, but that also seems to have declined over the last few years. In 2001, the FH was PACKED, and then it seems like it's declined significantly.

On the local front, the basic book program did seem to get more people back in the course room, but that is now going down quickly. I think it is because the entire thing is based on a lie. The books are not "NEW" they are just modified continually, I think to maintain the copyrights, and have something new to sell. As well as the fact that they are still squirreling what LRH actually wrote. I still don't buy the justification that they were all wrong for so long. I think they are trying to make them more palatable to the population, as well as removing controversial stuff. (I just did a comparison of 08 vs. a version I just got from the 70's and it is a travesty what they did. They basically took out the entire auditor code section, paraphrased it to state that "it is covered elsewhere" and then continued with the next chapter).

I also see the desperation of the communication increasing dramatically. I get probably 20 e-mail promotions a day on various things, including wins they are communicating. What's funny is that they can't see that the wins that are being shared are not actually wins, but are uneducated viewpoints that either you don't want, or their win makes everything else wrong. To pharaphrase one, it basically said that "I am now superior to everyone, and if you don't appreciate this win, you have evil intentions" Crazy.

Otherwise, the one thing that I have noticed is that as new public aren't coming in, they are having to do all their fundraising from existing public, and that is continually getting smaller. I know for a fact that the org in has a historical public that reaches over 10,000 that has purchased major services, and yet, they can't get 200 people to an event or barely on course.

So, I think the decline is speeding up and people are beginning to see. I know personally of three other OT7s who are not continuing on the level, and I know of 5 personally who are in actuality criminal, but continuing. I chose not to be part of that group.

[thetanic]

On the local front, the basic book program did seem to get more people back in the course room, but that is now going down quickly. I think it is because the entire thing is based on a lie. The books are not "NEW" they are just modified continually, I think to maintain the copyrights, and have something new to sell. As well as the fact that they are still squirreling what LRH actually wrote. I still don't buy the justification that they were all wrong for so long. I think they are trying to make them more palatable to the population, as well as removing controversial stuff. (I just did a comparison of 08 vs. a version I just got from the 70's and it is a travesty what they did. They basically took out the entire auditor code section, paraphrased it to state that "it is covered elsewhere" and then continued with the next chapter).

I don't believe this would maintain the copyrights; that's probably an MU on copyright law. A derivative work of a work in the public domain is still in the public domain. To be copyrightable, a derivative work must be different enough from the original to be regarded as a new work or must contain a substantial amount of new material. Making minor changes or additions of little substance to a pre-existing work will not qualify the work as a new version for copyright purposes. The new material must be original and copyrightable in itself. Titles, short phrases, and format, for example, are not copyrightable.

Since the works are substantially similar, they aren't a new work.

It'd be interesting to see an Anonymous-annotated version of one of the older books whose copyright has expired published by someone other than Bridge. Perhaps one where the funding went to XenuTV.

I'm sorry they did that to 0-8 -- that was one of my favorites when I was in. I'm no longer surprised, though.

[Stan D'Teque]

Welcome, he-who-can't-be-named!! I'm in a similar sit right now so I get exactly what's happening with you. On the recruiting of kids, it's been happening on and off in my area for the last 15 years or so - seems to come in a wave of uniforms then go away again etc.. Guess they wait until a new batch of kids gets old enough and hit before the parents find the circus is back in town. As far as what to write, you're doing just fine as far as I can see so continue! Tell us all whatever you can - that's why we're all here.

[EastAnon]

So, I think the decline is speeding up and people are beginning to see. I know personally of three other OT7s who are not continuing on the level, and I know of 5 personally who are in actuality criminal, but continuing. I chose not to be part of that group.

Hi Voldemorte,

Welcome to the board. Looking forward to you speaking out.

One question regarding the crimes. Do you plan on reporting them to the authorities? What they tried with your son is certainly criminal, especially since the person continues doing it.

Not saying you have to do it. I can't look into what moves you. Just wondering....

[Mrs Pattycake]

Hi there Volde,

Perhaps we have drilled together - I was on the level since 1996 - did manage to finish it recently but I have been out for about half a year now. I never did to OTVIII as I just could not see what the hell you could spend 2 to 4 ints handling on the elig sec check after just finishing VII. I figured that the intention had to be to take away anything that was CI to command intention - to make you the perfect OT ambassador ( ronbot ) - I realised I just was not interested in that. Let me say you did not miss much not finishing and doing the EP check - which is just the biggest arbitrary cycle making you jump through hoop after hoop and paying through the nose for the privilege. Have you seen the Barnes video ?

I am so glad that you kept your integrity in about your son's recruitment cycle - I know how that could of flapped for you on the solo lines ! We don't have a kid old enough to qualify but plenty of our friends did and a lot of them had similar experiences - one couple were ordered to pay for their own sec checks to handle their CI. Several others had ethics handlings, another family got dead filed over it. There was a lot of heat and pressure on parents - this was about 8 years ago.My hubby wrote it up to RTC explaining that it was illegal to "employ" these under age kids without parents consent. Things settled for down a bit after that - but it did not last.

When I was last at Flag I was shocked at how many staff were off post selling Basics - I escaped being overly regged by being on the comp line up and thus was basically handled like royalty - with my solo D of P like my shadow fending off "enturbulation" - but even that was bizarre because it was such fake caring - I was only a stat.

Look forward to hearing your stories and seeing if we know one another.