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Thread: ANZO Sea Org Abortions

  1. #61

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    Well, convincing people to 'voluntarily' cut off their balls may not be a hugely effective PR move, but, compared to what Scientology convinces people to do to themselves and others....

    Well, it's small potatos

    Zinj

  2. #62
    Silver Meritorious Patron Ladybird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinjifar View Post
    Well, convincing people to 'voluntarily' cut off their balls may not be a hugely effective PR move, but, compared to what Scientology convinces people to do to themselves and others....

    Well, it's small potatos

    Zinj
    No, they don't literally cut off guys balls, they just snip the vas deferans.

    I think you know that and if not google is your friend.


  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zinjifar View Post
    Well, convincing people to 'voluntarily' cut off their balls may not be a hugely effective PR move, but, compared to what Scientology convinces people to do to themselves and others....

    Well, it's small potatos

    Zinj


    What if they had them sign a waiver......

    "I ______________ agree to have my nuts tied together so as to keep myself from procreating for the "good" of Scientology"


    Would that make it all good?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ladybird View Post
    No, they don't literally cut off guys balls, they just snip the vas deferans.

    I think you know that and if not google is your friend.



    (COVERS EYES)

  5. #65
    Patron with Honors Happy Aberree's Avatar
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    Default 80s at AOSH ANZO

    Quote Originally Posted by Feral View Post

    I recall that when Shane Brockoff was on his GAT training at flag his wife had a baby back in Aus, I was at flag at the time and recall he could not get leave to go back and see her.

    The next I knew they were divorced and she had to go C/S in a cl V org as a single parent with two kids. I do not know how she pulled it all together working for staff pay, she must have had to 'wog job' as well, it must be hell on earth for her. I did hear she and their eldest were very bitter that their father had no interest in them.

    I guess the SO invested too much money in GATTing Brockdoff to allow him the luxury of raising his kids and looking after his wife.

    I am sure Julie would have been pressured to abort the kid, failing that they obviously had more luck convincing the brave father that he needed to divorce her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stan D'Teque View Post
    Feral you are totally on the money - it was common knowledge in CLO that there were attempts to "handle" Julie at the time - once that failed, Shane was "handled" - one "handler" who I got the info off left the SO within a few years.
    I've just picked up this thread and I was on crew at the AOSH ANZO in the late 80s when Julie first got pregnant. I have always liked Julie and the 'handling' she went through was horrible.

    At the time, I asked why all the execs were yelling at Julie (first phase lasted for about a day and a half in the Captain's office) and my senior told me that she was pregnant. It didn't click with me until just recently (when I started reading about forced abortions in the SO) that Julie was being coerced to have one. Otherwise they would have just given her a standard 'face-rip' and sent her to the lower org.

    If anyone had told me that abortions were forced on girls in the SO, when I was on crew, I wouldn't have believed them.

    HAB
    Happy Aberree

    The Bridge To Total Flee-dom

    The beliefs of men are not decided by priests

  6. #66

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    ( I typed up this post in a word doc and before I posted I decided to do a search of the board first. I found this thread. This thread gave me info I was looking for but I am going to post my message anyway. This thread makes me so ticked off, how could any organization do such things!)

    I am going to start this thread with this statement, the more I read this board the more pissed off I get.

    Why is that? There are many different reasons for this but currently the reason is SO members having abortions. I mean, how can this be? Actually, I know the answer to that due to similar experience I went through when I was a course supervisor.

    I was the course supervisor for the Org (we didn't have Day and FDN, there was just one Org). I supervised EVERYONE. My the course schedule was 9am to 10:30pm – there were lunch and dinner breaks, but I supervised all the public and all the staff. I went to the Ethics Officer, yea we had one, and told her “look this isn't fair! I can't create a 2D with anyone as they are all my students and it would violate the supervisor's code. Dumb me as this outcome isn't good; however, I just wanted to be honest ethical about it. I eventually got her to allow me to date someone.

    The woman ended up getting pregnant. Someone was rushed to replace me for awhile and I was put on mest work and sec checked till the cows came home. Boy, was that fun! NOT! The women soon became very, very critical of Scientology (oh, she was a staff member!). I mean very critical.

    After all the mest work, tons of sec checks and doing lower conditions on the 1 through 3rd dynamics, it was time to confront and handle this situation with that woman and her being pregnant. My Ethics officer ended up being both the Snr C/S and the ED. Yep, I had both of them. Just a note, a few years later the ED ended up being declared.

    By this time, the child was born but guess what? The child ended up being twins. Yep, twin girls! I was ready to route off staff and take care of my responsibility in this matter. Plus, I really wanted to be a dad. Someone else had been trained as a supervisor and take care of that. Okay, you won't let me route off, I will just go to a foundation schedule while I take a wog job so I can handle my responsibility on this situation I created. No go.

    I was made to method 9 w/c HCO PL “Ethics, Justice and the Dynamics”, HCO PL “The Basics of Ethics” and then made to do a bunch of Repair of Past Ethics Conditions. I have to say here that I was never, up to this point, in trouble over a 2d situation. Ever. I had previously had 1 long term girlfriend and I was like 21-22 when this went down. So having a messy 2d was just not something I was use to having.

    After all the conditions, the RPEC and oh, did I mention “Conditions and Exchange by Dynamics”? I had to do that too, It was decided the only solution was for me to give up my rights as a dad. Man, I didn't want to do that. That was the only solution I could come up with after all the “ethics actions” done on me. Hell, it had to have been 100 hours of Sec Checks and lord knows how many hours of mest work.

    After leaving staff, me signing my rights away always, always and still does burns a hole in my heart. I just can't stand it sometimes. Much too late now as the girls are about 19 and are going to college. Yea, I have my way of finding out what is up with them.

    If I ever meet them how the F---- do I explain this to them? Makes me so freaking mad and sad.

    But now back to why I started this thread:

    I gave up my rights as a parent, I do not thing if I were a woman and I got pregnant that I would have agreed to an abortion. I say that but heck I don't know. I also don't want anyone here to think I think any less of them or making them wrong or anything as at this point I am pointing to the Church as the cause.

    I see what happened to me, how could this happen to create an abortion. I am having such a hard time reconciling that in my head. Heck, with everything LRH said in Dianetics about abortion and how bad it is and how it shouldn't be done, how could this be allowed to happen? How?

    I think it may have been done the same way as it was done with me but with a HELL OF LOT MORE PRESSURE as it is the Sea Org.

    Did the SO Org pay for it? I guess that is what I want to know. The whole thing just pisses me off so much, the coercion, the tactics, etc.. and it all just going totally against what LRH himself says. But if an SO Org actually paid for one of these things!

    I know I ranted a little bit, I know this is a sensitive subject and I hope, oh I hope, no one takes this post the wrong way. To me, having an abortion goes against everything LRH says on the second dynamic

    This has just been on my mind for several days and I would like to gather more information about HOW the SO actually accomplishes this with its members. Do you get RPF'd after the abortion? Do you have to do lower conditions for getting pregnant? Sec Checks? Stuff like that but really WHO pays for it?

  7. #67
    Rogue male Feral's Avatar
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    Hey Poker Player,

    I get it. I'm very saddened by this.

    I don't know what I would've done in your shoes, or how I would've coped when I found out later that it was all for a giant con. I see why you are getting pissed off.
    Kevin Bloody Mackey


    The Story of my Bridge to OT VII

    "I'm not angry anymore, as more and more people rediscover their true selves through Scientology, together we WILL achieve a world without war, crime, and insanity." Rex Fowler, OTVII, before shooting his ex-partner three times in the head and then himself.

  8. #68
    Gold Meritorious Patron Kookaburra's Avatar
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    Poker Player, your story is horrific and deserves to be publicised broadly. I know what you mean when you say the more you read this board the more pissed off you get. Me too, and I've been reading for a few years now. I've gotton to the point where I've concluded that that rotton little cult is the embodiment of evil on this planet and needs to be totally decimated. It is staggering the amount of abuses they have perpetrated and still manage to hide it from those inside. But not for much longer.

    To answer your questions on how abortions are coerced, from what I have been told and observed, the women are berated for being off purpose, for having 'other fish to fry', and assigned lower conditions. Of course they can't get out of lowers unless they come to the 'correct' conclusion. Over the years there has come to be an enormous amount of peer pressure as those who refused abortions were sent to Class V orgs, or later offloaded, leaving those who had abortions themselves as the 'peers'. So it seems that a group agreement developed.

    At first a couple refusing an abortion were sent to a Cl V org together. Unfortunately the SO would get the last little bit of production possible out of them, so would wait till about a week before the baby was born to send them out, and with no money and no medical. Yep, the Sea Org looks after their own allright.

    Later on it became standard practice to separate the spouses if an abortion was refused, the husband would be worked over to divorce his wife and she'd be turfed out alone and pregnant. The deadbeat fathers would be kept and no child support would be paid.

    If a woman got the abortion, she would not go to RPF, she'd go back on post. Immediately. No matter how sick she was. After all, it was her fault she got pregnant. Oh, and the woman would have to pay for the abortion out of that juicy SO salary of $30.00 a week.

    After awhile, there were so many abortions that it became the norm, and murdering your own children for the good of the group became the new moral code of the group. Sick, eh?

    I knew from the moment I heard of the first co-erced abortion that Scientology was doomed. Forced abortions will be its undoing. A group that has sunk that far into depravity will not survive. The decency of mankind will rise up and crush it. And the sooner the better.

    S'cuze the rant, but this subject really pisses me off.
    http://www.exseaorg.com

    "L Ron Hubbard proves that one sure-fire way to "smash your name into history"... is to crash and burn spectacularly." quote by Freeminds.

  9. #69
    Gold Meritorious Patron Tiger Lily's Avatar
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    Poker Player,

    I'm so sorry for what you went through and are going through with this. It's making me angry just to read it; anyone who's ever had a child could see how cold and inhuman it is to do what they did. Yes, people need to hear your story. Thank you for posting it.

    I hope that you do get to meet them and let them know how much you wanted them. It would be a hard thing to explain, but just the fact of knowing that you love them would be worth a lot.

    It continues to amaze me how the "tech" about the dynamics is ignored in the COS. I could easily go on a rant of my own here. This is a very touchy subject. If anyone says there's not evil in the COS, they haven't heard these stories.

    Thanks for sharing PP,
    -TL

  10. #70
    Crusader Wisened One's Avatar
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    PP: Hubby and I were also Full, fulltime Org Staff, working from 8 am till 11pm or 12.

    Your story is heartbreaking, PP!
    The night I escaped Staff:
    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost....2&postcount=33

    I get really tired of hearing about how the lower bridge has value. The lower bridge has the sole purpose of getting the PC to reach for more bridge. The fact that many people improved their circumstances as a result of a good intentioned auditor being interested and caring about his PC is not worth the long term and intended result of Scientology technology. GT

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