"brainwashing", "Hypnotism", myths, facts, and how it relates to Scientology

[uniquemand]

Imprinting is brainwashing. It's not a deflection. Sorry you see it that way. The Church uses the Purif as a method of breaking down imprints and leaving you in a state to receive new ones. You are made extremely vulnerable, your diet is controlled, and you are "on the purif" for an arbitrary period, until such time as the C/S ("Daddy") says you are done, which is a complete mystery to most people on the purif. I'm sure most people are quite relieved when their purif is complete.

[Veda]

You're quite right.

Responding to the issue of "Scientology and brainwashing?" with Tim Leary's "Eight Circuit Model of Consciousness," etc. would be deflection. Responding to that deflection is merely being briefly distracted, and it can be brought around to a discussion of the actual topic again, as you've just done. Thank you.

Incidentally, in the chapter, 'Souls Turned Inside Out', in the book 'Messiah or Madman?', there's a description of the "removing of old programs" and "inserting of new programs," as it might occur in Scientology. However, there's also a separate chapter titled, 'The Brainwashing Manual'. Both are relevant, IMO.

[Björkist]

You're quite right.

Responding to the issue of "Scientology and brainwashing?" with Tim Leary's "Eight Circuit Model of Consciousness," etc. would be deflection. Responding to that deflection is merely being briefly distracted, and it can be brought around to a discussion of the actual topic again, as you've just done. Thank you.

Incidentally, in the chapter, 'Souls Turned Inside Out', in the book 'Messiah or Madman?', there's a description of the "removing of old programs" and "inserting of new programs," as it might occur in Scientology. However, there's also a separate chapter titled, 'The Brainwashing Manual'. Both are relevant, IMO.

Responding to the issue of "Scientology and brainwashing?" with Tim Leary's "Eight Circuit Model of Consciousness," was to bring a concept into the discussion which others may not be familiar with and that may lead to understanding what is possibly (not concretely) going on with Scientology auditing (among many other processes which address similar things).

But a paranoid mind who sees nasty and sinister motives would easily miss the point and thus see and claim something else was being done.

Uniquemand,

De-imprinting should be done solo. As well as re-imprinting (should one see it as necessary).

Re-imprinting can be brainwashing (in the sinister term) if it is done both forcefully/against one's will and without one knowing/agreeing, etc. (i.e. Linda MacDonald at the hands of Dr. Ewen Cameron [restraint, massive doses of ECT, LSD and other things])

I don't consider the self-determined removal of old, other-determined and enforced ideas and the subsequent creating of one's own ideas and "world view" brainwashing.

[FreedBodyThetan]

The Church uses the Purif as a method of breaking down imprints and leaving you in a state to receive new ones. You are made extremely vulnerable, your diet is controlled, and you are "on the purif" for an arbitrary period, until such time as the C/S ("Daddy") says you are done, which is a complete mystery to most people on the purif. I'm sure most people are quite relieved when their purif is complete.

I am completely unfamiliar with this "until the C/S says you are done". Every case I've seen, not to mention my own, it's when the person knows he's done that he's done. When people don't realize that, there can be problems... people being on it for two months, for example, getting increasingly annoyed because they're well beyond the point where it's doing anything for them, was the only recurring problem I noticed, and that wasn't common.

As for diet being controlled... naw, just get some vegetables in you, and follow this plan of increasing dosages of various supplements. Other than that, you are most certainly not supposed to change your diet.

As for extremely vulnerable... wha? You're vulnerable... because you have to exercise for 20-30 minutes? For taking some supplements? For agreeing to spend hours lounging around in a sauna, taking frequent showers, and drinking water? Oh, the agony! Mommy, make the bad man stop making me relax in the sauna!

[crm1978]

It all depends on how you define your words something Hubbard was good at .Change the meaning of words and you can reframe concepts to mean something new .Brainwashing or Hypnosis is something those evil psychs do not what Scientology does thus LRH distracted you from what is in fact going on and created an external enemy all at the same time .My definition of hypnoses is focusing the mind in a way that lowers awareness and makes that mind open to external influence without the person being aware of that influence.Brainwashing would be changing a current belief system into a new system that is "better" according to the person doing the washing .It works best if the person is not aware that it has been done .Punishment and abuse is one way as in RPF Hubbard prefered the sneaky less forcefull way .One can make a good case that that is exactly and wholly what the Bridge To Total freedom is

[crm1978]

Hypnoses or brain washing is not all ways an all or nothing process mild forms of it go on all the time in advertising public relations etc I have read that Hubbard was a skilled hypnotist before he started Cof S it is logical that he would use that to his advantage .He also was a very clever writer who was very good at creating a wonderfull and appealing vision that has taken in a lot of well meaning people .Sadly that vision is an illusion that many people don'nt see "As Is" until too late .Hubbard also had a good grasp of how to keep people in by social isolation from "wogs" and by hope for the gains that are on the grade chart but which never really happen .

[Smilla]

This isn't strictly speaking brainwashing, but it's related.

"Milieu control involves the control of communication within a group environment, that also may (or may not) result in a significant degree of isolation from surrounding society. When non-group members, or outsiders, are considered or potentially labeled as less valuable without basis for stated group-supported and group-reinforced prejudice, group members may have a tendency to then consider themselves as intellectually superior, which can limit alternate points of view, thus becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy in which group members automatically begin to devalue others and the intellect of others that are separate from their group, without logical rationale for doing so."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milieu_control

[GreyLensman]

Not necessarily. I think that Bob Penny made some good points in his essay on this subject. Please read this.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman/Xenu/scs.html



I agree with this.



I don't know about that BUT I think that this is usually a case of being young and naive.
The rest of the post is far to academic in terminology to be real and down-to-earth.

Bob Penny's take on TRs - I never had that imposed success story - that I would realize I should now serve the group - nor was it ever asked for. If anything further participation slightly negated the gains I actually had from TR's. It was the first failure to consult my own gut feeling that "there be dragons."

There is much in Scientology that is coercive and intentionally misleading. There are also gems of workability there likely by accident and there because a huge number of people of good will helped start this thing that became Scientology. Some of that original intention persists despite the true evil intended by source and Miscavige.

Much of the destructive cult structure surrounds and buries the workable parts.

[Ogsonofgroo]

Giving this old thread some thread-love with a gentle bump, especially considering all the newbies of late.
The spectrum of folks this can be of benefit to is huge, from ins, outs, curious, freshly left, reporters, critics, the disaffected/disinfected fence-sitters, and more, I especially liked this 'Cole's Notes' version of the fine WWP thread by Consensus (kudos man, it was even worth a re-read) ~ http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com...do-bad-things/

The points explained are timelessly poignant

[themadhair]

Something that I find fascinating is in how some Scientology definitions are almost as if they were designed to exploit the principles illustrated in the psychological experiences.

For example, the Scientology definition of the ‘Objective environment’, as taken from the Advanced Procedures and Axioms 2007 version editor’s glossary, reads “The objective environment is what everyone agrees is there.” Other definitions in Scientology, most notably that of ‘reality’ being ‘agreement’, fall into the same category, but the definition I have given here is even more clear cut to see. If you had to try and invent a definition based on the Asch principle it would be difficult to better this one.

Other examples are 8C and learning how to be controlled, which ties in with the principle explored in the Milgram experiment.