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Thread: Disconnection Cancelled

  1. #61
    Patron Fabian Marcabian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalomaniac View Post


    Fabian, Paul, now I'm wondering about fair use. I thought it was fair, but, ... ? I guess I'll wait until somebody tells me to take it down -- then I'll just edit it, maybe.


    I thought it was fair use, too. The quotes you used were very relevant to your letter and oddly enough were those things that I took on board as my stable datums in Scientology. Probably why I'm a critic now, too! The chronic violations of, that is.

    It's real easy to fix up the readability, BTW. Just copy paste it into a word processing program such as Word and it does it all for you. Then link to that.

    From what you have said so far, I think you are going to be a very interesting and provocative contributor on this board.
    All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

  2. #62
    Silver Meritorious Patron Megalomaniac's Avatar
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    Default Chinese School Cancelled / Disconnection Cancelled

    Thanks Panda. Well, it's cancelled for me. And the only reason disconnection happens is 'cause you agree to it. I guess that was another point. What are they going to do: sue you for harrassment because you sent a box of chocolates? "I can't make case gain because my son keeps saying he loves me. Help!"

    ------

    That's funny, I tried to do Chinese School at work one time. No way. It was a Chinese guy that wouldn't go for it, too.

    Well, I'm hoping Once Bitten will lead us. But, yeah, no org board.

  3. #63
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    Welcome Megalomaniac!

    I too had a problem with your thread title, and being a bit gun shy of late, I wasn't willing to be sucked in yet again.

    Well done on putting it all out there! :D

    Cheers,
    Carmel

  4. #64
    Silver Meritorious Patron Megalomaniac's Avatar
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    Default problem with thread title

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceedia View Post
    Welcome Megalomaniac!

    I too had a problem with your thread title, and being a bit gun shy of late, I wasn't willing to be sucked in yet again.

    Well done on putting it all out there! :D

    Cheers,
    Carmel
    You guys have been so supportive!

    I was a bit uneasy with the title myself. But I want to make it be true.

    Look out, another Mega post coming up ...

  5. #65
    Silver Meritorious Patron Megalomaniac's Avatar
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    Default Petition to Take Responsibility

    After a fitful few hours of sleep, the alarm woke me this morning. For some reason the first sounds out of it were a Mexican song. "El Diablo, la verdad es", then the rapid-fire accordian: do-do-do do-do-do do-do-do do-do-dooooo-do.

    I pressed snooze. But the radio was telling me "the Devil, the truth is". True enough. Half the time, I'm worried about catching hell from OSA, for speaking the truth. Half the time, I'm thinking that they are twice as worried about me, or maybe 10x.

    Anyways, The night before, I hit upon an idea as insane as writing the open letter to Scientologists. The idea is to start a petition. Here it is, very unfinished, but I wanted to hear your feedback.


    PETITION TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY
    FOR THE CRIMES AND WRONGDOINGS
    OF SCIENTOLOGY

    Whereas, Scientology groups, Scientology Missions, Scientology Churches, Church of Scientology International, Religious Technology Center, Church of Spiritual Technology, and directly affiliated groups such as ABLE and Narconon ("Organizations") have survived only through the contributions of service and money donations of Scientologists, Church staff and executives, and others ("Supporters");

    Whereas, numerous reports have been made of crimes and wrongdoings committed by staff and executives of the Organizations, and/or employees or contractors acting at the direct command of staff and executives of the Organizations ("Perpetrators")

    Brief list of crimes & wrongdoings
    - imprisonment resulting in untimely death: Lisa McPherson, Uwe Stuckenbrock
    - Coerced Abortions
    - Splitting up families (Disconnection policy)
    - Censoring communication (SO staff)
    - slave labor? (RPF)

    Whereas, the Supporters, though perhaps ignorant of the crimes and wrongdoings, nevertheless directly or indirectly contributed to them.

    Whereas, the Supporters, had they [had their heads out of their, um, out of the sand] were often subject to more than ample reports of such wrongdoings and crimes, but they chose to ignore or disbelieve the reports, and not effectively stop the crimes and wrongdoings.

    Whereas, though the Perpetrators are at first glance, not deserving of any mercy, and such crimes and wrongdoings are at first glance heartless and evil, the truth is not so simple: often said Perpetrators were acting based on a supreme trust in LRH and strictly following policies; such trust was reinforced by Supporters giving real wins; such trust was reinforced by Supporters thanking the Management for doing what they do; such trust was perhaps also reinforced by Supporters giving exaggerated wins -- thus the deceit was two-way; and when said Perpetrators violated policy to commit such crimes and wrongdoings, the practice of violating policy was reinforced by Supporters allowing it;

    Whereas, we Supporters and former Supporters therefore acknowledge some small, perhaps very small, responsibility for said crimes and wrongdoings; and we wish to be able to make up the damage for that as much as possible;

    Whereas, when we consider that had we been in the shoes of the Perpetrators, with the same training, with the same stress, we wonder how much differently would we have acted;

    Whereas, perhaps we ought to feel fortunate that the Perpetrators exhibited whatever restraint they did, for surely, it could have been far worse if certain other people had filled their shoes, as we can recall far more destruction committed in far less time by other historical figures in similar situations;

    Whereas our first priority is to stop the occurrence of such wrongdoings and crimes, and our second priority is justice, to somehow bring justice by having those responsible make up the damage as much as possible, and we bear no ill will toward the Perpetrators;

    Whereas, a man with no hope of a future, is a frightened and dangerous man;

    Whereas, we are all better off with the truth coming out, and with the Perpetrators coming out and coming clean, than with some of the Perpetrators hiding themselves and hiding information;

    Whereas, coming clean, coming out with the truth, is a courageous act, and worthy of some reward, even for a scum villain; and when done voluntarily and fully, is even cause for some small forgiveness and hope of recovery of the Perpetrator;

    Whereas, if there is some reward for coming clean, coming out with the truth, more Perpetrators will do so;

    Whereas, the sooner the suppressive policies are cancelled and freedom is restored, the better;

    Whereas, any Supporter who does not believe any of the crimes or wrongdoings are factual and that the Organizations are blameless, will therefore have no reason to not be willing to agree to make up some portion of the damage, as it would be zero in his mind;

    THEREFORE,

    We, the undersigned Supporters and former Supporters, hereby humbly beg to all the Governments and Courts of Earth to make the following bargain:

    If the Perpetrators come clean, speak the truth, cooperate fully with all Government investigations into said crimes and wrongdoings, and fully disclose all such crimes and wrongdoings, and

    If the Organizations cancel the policy of disconnection, cancel all forms of coercion, cancel all forms of forced interference in communication, cancel all forms of imprisonment, in word and in deed, and

    If the Organizations pledge to proceed, if they continue to exist at all, in the more humble role of assistants or freely trading partners with man, and not man's master, and

    [ ... What's on your wish list? ]

    Then, we, the undersigned, pledge to do our share to make up the damage of said crimes and wrongdoings, each share to be calculated based on the Supporter's knowledge of said wrongdoings, support of the Organizations, and whatever other pertinent factors the lawfully presiding Court deems appropriate; each share to consist of community service and/or monetary contributions to the victims; each share to be no more than a given maximum of time and money, each Supporter prescribing his or her own maximum (below);

    Then, furthermore, the sentence of the Perpetrators is to be reduced by an amount decided by the presiding Court, said reduction based on the contributions of the Supporters; said reduction of penalty or sentence to be calculated so that Perpetrators have an incentive to cooperate, yet still provide justice to the victims;

    Furthermore, it is not our intention at all to beg for leniancy. On the contrary, we ask for full justice. We are simply asking that some properly calculated portion of the penalty be transferred to us from the legally culpable Perpetrators.

    We understand that though there is room for much error and unfairness in this bargain, that there is the likelihood of far more error, loss of life, and injustice in the proposition that we Supporters wash our hands of it and hide while the small minority take the fall.

    We understand that this bargain will be messy as some of the Supporters are also victims, but it will be far more messy and secretive with less justice, were we to maintain the anger and hostility we first felt when learning of our betrayed trust.

    And we know that some Supporters will choose to not sign this petition. We do not feel any hostility toward them, as we do not know enough to judge their situation. We have signed as if we were signing it alone, based only on our own knowledge. And we know that this is not the only petition possible -- this is just the hastily constructed ideas of one person. Other petitions may be made by other groups of Supporters based on their ideas and this is, of course, entirely acceptable.

    We do not easily forgive -- we will only forgive the Perpetrators when, and to the degree that, the victims and/or their families and close friends forgive the Perpetrators. We hope that a bit of compassion from each of us will more swiftly bring freedom to those who feel trapped, expose more truth, and bring more people to a fuller justice than a hostile narrow-minded hunt for the most obvious and easily caught targets, or the driving of those already fearful and desperate into a dragged-out drama ending in a terrifying last stand in which no one wins.

    This petition is a statement of purpose, and we may cancel it and replace it with a substantially similar petition and bargain, so as to gain more agreement, but with equal willingness to contribute.

    We will act in good faith, if the Perpetrators, victims, courts of justice, and police also act in good faith.


    1. Mac Stevens max money contribution: $10,000 max community service: 500 hours contact information: stevensm@earthlink.net
    2.
    3.
    4.
    ...
    (revised and re-worded so as to be inoffensive to the maximum number of Scientologists and ex-Scientologists)

    Is anyone still with me? I'll summarize the idea and make some comments.

    We give the crooks a break, give them some glimmer of hope that they can again walk free, knowing the damage has been made up as fairly as humanly possible. We take responsibility for our role in the mess.

    We far more rapidly achieve the goals of, say, letting the RPF go home for Christmas, and that sort of thing, the goal of getting OSA to quit harrassing -- all that kind of stuff. We relax. OSA relaxes. *I* relax. Anonymous takes off their masks. ChaoticPsychotic gets to visit her mom. We chill out. We communicate more. We get a lot more people out of hiding. A lot more information sees the light of day. A lot more friendships are restored.

    In other words, we start eliminating the FEAR from the situation.

    When I look at David Miscavige, at the bullying from OSA, at, well, all these destructive policies, I see fear. I think these guys are just shivering, or covertly shivering, looking for some way out. Not just you and I. Everyone right on up to the top. But some of them (speculation here) probably have too many crimes to even consider doing anything but try to hide the evidence. They have no hope. They are goners. So this maintains the suppression and the fear.

    Now, I'm guessing that you're guessing, that I really do work for OSA. I don't. But, I am looking out for myself. And I know that many of you are still anonymous, out of, I'm guessing, fear of OSA. This seems like something that might work for everyone, if we do it smart. Don't let anyone off the hook. Just a bit of help and compassion.

    These guys are just people. The big bully thugs. The screaming executives. They're just people. How many of them got into this with the goal of suppressing people? They probably want more than anything to join the human race and just be able to talk.

    sorry, I'm getting sappy.

  6. #66
    Silver Meritorious Patron Megalomaniac's Avatar
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    Default revision to make acceptable

    When I say revise to make acceptable, I don't mean to water down the important parts. I mean to use words that are not offensive. I mean to say things like such-and-such abuse was reported by XYZ and 50 other people, rather than such-and-such abuse really happened (without the source). Scientologists still in would agree that the abuse was reported much more readily than they would agree that the abuse in fact occurred.

    Maybe that doesn't matter, too, because there could be different versions that ended up with equivalent agreements.

  7. #67
    Crusader Pixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wisened One View Post
    ... er... you ok WO?
    "Who looks outside dreams; who looks inside, awakes" C.G. Jung
    "Anonymous are the angels of our time". Me

  8. #68
    Squirrel Extraordinaire Dulloldfart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabian Marcabian View Post
    I thought it was fair use, too. The quotes you used were very relevant to your letter and oddly enough were those things that I took on board as my stable datums in Scientology. Probably why I'm a critic now, too! The chronic violations of, that is.
    I think all those quotes at the bottom of the letter exceed the boundaries of fair use. But it is not always cut and dried, and is the province of judges and court cases to make a decision. The general law on fair use is discussed in this Wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

    Personally I don't really care what happens with Mac and his website if he wants to quote great chunks of LRH stuff. It's his affair. But I do care about ESMB, and I consider quoting all those pieces in full could be considered a violation of the law, thus exposing Emma and this board to risk. Remember OSA uses the law to harass, and winning a lawsuit is often no more than a nice bonus.

    Paul
    PaulsRobot Iconic now available for use at www.PaulsRobot2.com. With Auto-Report. Video here. Introductory post here. Debug post here. Dipoles post here.

  9. #69
    Genuine Meatball SchwimmelPuckel's Avatar
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    Well, yes DOF.. But we should not be afraid to quote the old bastard (Hubbard) or the cults policies. Ie: We should quote as needed, right up until we get a Kobrinogram.

    I think the law requires the cult to notify about a fair use violation. And that if the offending text is then removed or amended, then they have no complaint. I might be wrong..

    Heh.. I note that the fair use laws forces us to quote only snippets. And that the scilons then qritisize us for quoting out of context!

    Anyhow.. What comes to mind for me is the condition formulas. Those formulas are a direct threath to me personally (and every other disaffected scilon), to steal my property, cheat and/or defraud me, harras me and ultimatly 'utterly destroy' me.. The wording of the latter threath is obvious. Means kill me.. Only Hubbard prepared for plausible deniability. And there's a lot of other cult policy reiterating the threaths and describing methods.

    That's a large group of organized religious zealots threathening me!

    I'm not in any way willing to let them deny me to document their intents. They might force me.. With the fair use laws.

    Another good example is the video from an IAS event where DM incites hate and violence towards the 'evil psychs' with graphic handgrenades for emphasis (Video removed from YouTube!). Or when he rejoices over 'Shooting down SP's like ducks in a pond'.. And we have all those scilons cheering..

    This stuff was not intended for the public, and the cult did get the videos removed from the internet. But, by damn, the public needs to know about this!

    Ask not what Scientology can do for you, ask what the F#*¤CK is going on!

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SchwimmelPuckel View Post
    Well, yes DOF.. But we should not be afraid to quote the old bastard (Hubbard) or the cults policies. Ie: We should quote as needed, right up until we get a Kobrinogram.

    I think the law requires the cult to notify about a fair use violation. And that if the offending text is then removed or amended, then they have no complaint. I might be wrong..

    Heh.. I note that the fair use laws forces us to quote only snippets. And that the scilons then qritisize us for quoting out of context!

    Anyhow.. What comes to mind for me is the condition formulas. Those formulas are a direct threath to me personally (and every other disaffected scilon), to steal my property, cheat and/or defraud me, harras me and ultimatly 'utterly destroy' me.. The wording of the latter threath is obvious. Means kill me.. Only Hubbard prepared for plausible deniability. And there's a lot of other cult policy reiterating the threaths and describing methods.

    That's a large group of organized religious zealots threathening me!

    I'm not in any way willing to let them deny me to document their intents. They might force me.. With the fair use laws.

    Another good example is the video from an IAS event where DM incites hate and violence towards the 'evil psychs' with graphic handgrenades for emphasis (Video removed from YouTube!). Or when he rejoices over 'Shooting down SP's like ducks in a pond'.. And we have all those scilons cheering..

    This stuff was not intended for the public, and the cult did get the videos removed from the internet. But, by damn, the public needs to know about this!
    Agreed Schwimmy, but one can make a point by summarizing and giving reference to, without putting ESMB in jeopardy. It's a bitch, but we'll do more good by taking heed of advices in regard to all this. The CofS would take any opportunity to shut ESMB down - it would be foolish of us to give them the opportunity, don't you agree?

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