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Thread: Scientology: Why doesn't it work?

  1. #71
    Patron Meritorious Once bitten's Avatar
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    I'd just like to say that I'm really sick of Martini's posts and I think he needs to start his own website. This site is for exes.

    It makes me want to puke. I came here to GET AWAY FROM SCIENTOLOGY not read about the crap, lies and rubbish that Martini writes about in every thread.

    GET YOUR OWN WEBSITE MARTINI
    Genny (formally Gray) - Snr Cl IV C/S
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    My Crime? Having a baby while on staff without CSW

  2. #72
    Gold Meritorious Patron KnightVision's Avatar
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    Quite a few years ago, OT VIII was released. It was heralded as the "first true OT level". While David Miscavige, himself, has been unable to attain this level, many other Scientologists have. Some of them are still in Scientology and are still working to support Scientology.

    But where are the results of these "true OTs" who are supporting Scientology? These OTs are supposed to be far beyond anything that has ever existed on this planet. These OTs are supposed to be incredibly effective. Around such OTs, things "just go right". Yes?

    No.
    Now that I know what it could not do for me... I'm enjoying discovering what can.

    crimes with CofS thread

  3. #73
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    re "The Tech works".

    It is not like a pill or a course of medecine that you pay for and take and then it "works" and fixes what it is supposed to fix. Scio tech is not at all like that. Not in any way.

    Let's say it is like a bicycle. A bicycle really does "work" as I'm sure everyone here knows from personal experience. You buy a bike and pay for it. Nothing happens until YOU get on the bike and pedal and push and ride it proprly and sensibly. Only then does it "work". But on it's own the bike does nothing - as mine has been doing nothing in the garage for the last two years or so.

    A shovel also works. So does Scientology.

    Is it objectively testable? I really don't know. The benefits offered and expected are all personal subjective benefits, and there are so many variables in it all that it defies objective quantification. So I think the answer is no. xcept by maybe finding a successful Org and counting heads. However the successfulness of the Org could not be measured by Gross Income or Paid Comps but by some more friendly measurement.

    Does auditing increase intelligence? AH! Now here we have something I find fascinating, because I reckon the answer is YES. Only thing is how do we define intelligence and how do we measure it? Certainly not by IQ tests.

    Here is my definition of intelligence - I think I have posted this somewhere once before. Successful auditing will increase this in a person very effectively. (You must indulge me here - words and their definitions have been a hobby of mine for many years. I'm a repressed philologist.)

    INTELLIGENCE, The willingness to pervade, duplicate, participate and contribute towards any given area. It is the being's willingness to know, to reach, to understand, and to have. Stupidity is the unwillingness to do any of the above.

    INTELLIGENCE GAIN, The result of an increased ability to reach, duplicate and participate in any given area. It is a Havingness increase. Intelligence is a confronting ability.

    HAVINGNESS, Havingness is the willingness and ability to reach into a mass, or space, or energy, or time, or significance, - pervade it, duplicate it, participate in it and contribute towards it, coupled with the willingness and ability to not reach into a mass or space or energy or time, pervade it, duplicate it, participate in it and contribute towards if one so chooses. Both have to be present, as well as the freedom to self-determinedly choose between them.

    Havingness is an exact synonym for Intelligence. People who do well in IQ tests are willing to reach, duplicate, participate and so on, in the little puzzles they give you to solve on those tests. A person with a high havingness in any given area, be it rocket science or rugby, will manifest a high degree of intelligence and competence in that area.



    Scientology also increases a person's ability to be logical and his sanity, these two words being exact synomyms too.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once bitten View Post
    I'd just like to say that I'm really sick of Martini's posts and I think he needs to start his own website. This site is for exes.

    It makes me want to puke. I came here to GET AWAY FROM SCIENTOLOGY not read about the crap, lies and rubbish that Martini writes about in every thread.

    GET YOUR OWN WEBSITE MARTINI
    Rather than elect yourself effect (and god knows what other areas you do this in) why don't you put yourself at CAUSE and put me on ignore? <Deleted>
    Last edited by Moderator 2; 12th December 2008 at 06:53 AM. Reason: offensive
    "I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.... Better to live on your feet than to die on your knees." ~ Emiliano Zapata

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martini View Post
    Rather than elect yourself effect (and god knows what other areas you do this in) why don't you put yourself at CAUSE and put me on ignore? <deleted>

    INTELLIGENCE GAIN, The result of an increased ability to reach, duplicate and participate in any given area. It is a Havingness increase. Intelligence is a confronting ability.
    Last edited by Moderator 2; 12th December 2008 at 06:54 AM.
    Now that I know what it could not do for me... I'm enjoying discovering what can.

    crimes with CofS thread

  6. #76
    Gold Meritorious Patron KnightVision's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnightVision View Post
    Quite a few years ago, OT VIII was released. It was heralded as the "first true OT level". While David Miscavige, himself, has been unable to attain this level, many other Scientologists have. Some of them are still in Scientology and are still working to support Scientology.

    But where are the results of these "true OTs" who are supporting Scientology? These OTs are supposed to be far beyond anything that has ever existed on this planet. These OTs are supposed to be incredibly effective. Around such OTs, things "just go right". Yes?

    No.
    Now that I know what it could not do for me... I'm enjoying discovering what can.

    crimes with CofS thread

  7. #77
    Patron Meritorious Once bitten's Avatar
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    I was told that auditing could 'get rid of my asthma'. I firstly had to go without my inhaler for a month before I was allowed auditing. My husband sold his precious motor bike to fund my auditing. I was really sick with asthma during the month I wasn't allowed to use my inhaler and was hospitalised. I then was made to drink a conconction made from seaweed which was supposed to get rid of my asthma. Then there were no pcs getting auditing so the Tech Sec decided that I didn't have to wait the month any longer and I was allowed auditing.

    My asthma never changed. I still have it to this day even though I have attested to being clear.

    My asthma is affected by wheat, cheap white wine and cigarette smoke. As long as I avoid these things I am virtually asthma-free.

    I suppose scientologists like Martini will claim that it's due to the auditing I had 30 years ago that my asthma is now almost non-existent and has nothing to do with avoiding the things I know I have to avoid. That's the stupidity of scientologists. They can't see that OTHER THINGS WORK and that if scientology processes work it's because they have been plagerised from somewhere else. Psychotherapy can help people, and scientolgy using psychotherapy (renamed auditing) can help people too. It's simply been stolen from Freud and re-labeled.

    Scientology doesn't work. Face it. Scientology is nothing more than a series of stolen processes which trick people into believing they are better than other people which plays right into the nature of humans, as Hubbard knew it would.
    Genny (formally Gray) - Snr Cl IV C/S
    Sydney Day 78 - 83
    Declared SP
    My Crime? Having a baby while on staff without CSW

  8. #78
    Silver Meritorious Patron Neo's Avatar
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    The more Scientology I experienced, the less able, and intelligent I felt like I was becoming. Not just from "The Tech", but from the whole experience. I read your posts Leon and think "wow, it's just like what they told me 5 years ago to sell me Scientology in the first place". I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and accept that this is your experience. But I know of no one else (except a couple of other posters here), especially those I knew from my local Org, who experienced what you write. People still spew forth this PR, but they don't actually experience this, in my observation.

    The most intelligent, able, and confronting thing I ever did in Scientology was to leave. This took enormous amounts of confront. I knew I would lose a lot as a result. But one thing I did not lose, were those PR claims made by those Scientologist's I knew. They never happened in the first place.

    Was it because the Tech doesn't work? Or was it because either myself, or my auditor, or a combination thereof didn't work? Given that no one else, per observation, is benefiting from Scientology tech in alignment with your description of how they should be benefiting then I must conclude that it was the tech, or at least the way the locals were using it, and not just me.

    And given that so many others from around the world, especially as is reported here at this message board also were short changed in the experiences, then once again the Tech becomes the common denominator.

    You appear to be a very unique individual Leon. You appear to be one of the few who seems to be benefiting (per your reports) from Scientology Tech.

    Neo

  9. #79
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    Thanks for reminding me why I am no longer a scientologist, Martini. I rather like hearing that you think I'm a retarded bitch as it reinforces why I protest against scientology, and also validates why I feel the way I do about hubbard and his brainwashed disciples.

    Thanks again. Awesome. Oh, and it shows me that scientology doesn't work for you either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Martini View Post
    Rather than elect yourself effect (and god knows what other areas you do this in) why don't you put yourself at CAUSE and put me on ignore? <deleted>

    Last edited by Moderator 2; 12th December 2008 at 07:14 AM. Reason: offensive comment from Martini
    Genny (formally Gray) - Snr Cl IV C/S
    Sydney Day 78 - 83
    Declared SP
    My Crime? Having a baby while on staff without CSW

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once bitten View Post
    I was told that auditing could 'get rid of my asthma'. I firstly had to go without my inhaler for a month before I was allowed auditing. My husband sold his precious motor bike to fund my auditing. I was really sick with asthma during the month I wasn't allowed to use my inhaler and was hospitalised. I then was made to drink a conconction made from seaweed which was supposed to get rid of my asthma. Then there were no pcs getting auditing so the Tech Sec decided that I didn't have to wait the month any longer and I was allowed auditing.

    My asthma never changed. I still have it to this day even though I have attested to being clear.

    My asthma is affected by wheat, cheap white wine and cigarette smoke. As long as I avoid these things I am virtually asthma-free.

    I suppose scientologists like Martini will claim that it's due to the auditing I had 30 years ago that my asthma is now almost non-existent and has nothing to do with avoiding the things I know I have to avoid. That's the stupidity of scientologists. They can't see that OTHER THINGS WORK and that if scientology processes work it's because they have been plagerised from somewhere else. Psychotherapy can help people, and scientolgy using psychotherapy (renamed auditing) can help people too. It's simply been stolen from Freud and re-labeled.

    Scientology doesn't work. Face it. Scientology is nothing more than a series of stolen processes which trick people into believing they are better than other people which plays right into the nature of humans, as Hubbard knew it would.
    Actually I would say very well done on spotting what you have an allergy to.

    On the Asthma/Allergy RD one basically lists for these items, and once they are found they are processed individually. The idea is to raise your havingness on these items. One is first made to get the idea of wasting wheat, as that is below having. Then after each flow, one is made to get the idea of having wheat. The other items would then be handled similarly.

    Havingness is basically duplication and being able to tolerate the presence of something. One can posess it, reach for it, be it, etc.
    "I want to die a slave to principles. Not to men.... Better to live on your feet than to die on your knees." ~ Emiliano Zapata

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