Daughter cults: Avatar and Landmark Education (est)

[Eldon]

I think it's important for people to know these two are offshoots of Scientology. I don't mean Freezone, but surreptitious secular business that use much of the same "tech" in terms of both mental manipulation and financial predation.

Landmark is not nearly as insidious since Werner left, but it still does some psychological damage and defrauds people through a "volunteer" scheme where devotees donate free labor for recruitment and administrative work pawned off as training. They left France (and three other European countries) in 2004 after a couple of TV expose programs.

Avatar is more insidious. It's an MLM scam that operates sort of like Amway without soap. It even has a top-secret exorcism process on the upper level Wizard course that's a direct knockoff of Scientology's OT III and NOTS. For more info, see www.avatarcult.info/

This is my current niche project. If you want to contact me, My email is EldonB123@aol.com.

[The Oracle]

So what?

I mean, why are you policing these people?

Aren't they permitted the pursuit of happiness?

Doesn't the consitution apply to them?

I am afraid trying to have a monopoly on self improvment and killing off anyone else that attempts it, will equal out to a new "thought police", in case you haven't already seen the results of THAT program.

[Voltaire's Child]

Landmark is an offshoot of EST which is an offshoot of Scn.

So that makes it kind of far removed....

Let me know when they set up an RPF.

[programmer_guy]

Eldon,

I only knew one young lady in the late 1970s (about 2 years after I left Scientology) who told me that she was going to do an EST seminar. I told her that I didn't recommend that (what she needed to do was to get rid of her deadbeat, lying, mooching boyfriend.)

She did it anyway (EST).

I talked to her after she did this. She looked like she was depressed or maybe overwhelmed and no better off.

The EST way was to belittle you (invalidate your whole life - in SCN terminology) in a crowd "shotgun" approach and then build one back up in the image of Werner (IF you could "get it"). That was my understanding (I never did EST.)

[Lulu Belle]

The EST way was to belittle you (invalidate your whole life - in SCN terminology) in a crowd "shotgun" approach and then build one back up in the image of Werner (IF you could "get it"). That was my understanding (I never did EST.)

I bet DM wishes Scientology was set up that way. Get rid of all those pesky staff and those one on one "handlings" you need in Scientology to invalidate someone's whole life.

Just get all these people in a room and invalidate them all at one time.

He'd take it one step further. He would put it on a video. People would just come in and watch it.

Even more impersonal and efficient.

Hey, I think I'm on to something here. :D

[Voltaire's Child]

Yeah, but you wouldn't have all that slavery shit like you have in CofS...I don't think they have staff and staff contracts and stuff like that, do they?

[programmer_guy]

I don't think they have staff and staff contracts and stuff like that, do they?

"We're Gonna Tear You Down and Put You Back Together"
http://www.rickross.com/reference/est/estpt8.html

Est is no ordinary California cult. It is a multimillion dollar corporation that has doubled in size each year and operates nationwide with the efficiency of a crack brigade.

So... YES, they have staff. I'm surprised that you even asked that.

[Voltaire's Child]

I was writing about Landmark, not EST. And how would I know who's got staff and who doesn't?

Ok, time to beef up the ignore list.

[In present time]

Well I only just found this thread. Avatar is indeed scn lite. They got me for over ten thousand dollars.
Hello Eldon!
Well, this thread is so old, but I am wondering how many others left scn only to be snapped up by OT 8s that had become "avatar masters"?

Damn, I am a slow learner, Grrr.

[GoNuclear]

Well I only just found this thread. Avatar is indeed scn lite. They got me for over ten thousand dollars.
Hello Eldon!
Well, this thread is so old, but I am wondering how many others left scn only to be snapped up by OT 8s that had become "avatar masters"?

Damn, I am a slow learner, Grrr.

You have engaged in an act of thread necromancy! But anyways ... I am familiar with Landmark ... cult lite ... people there who go for the 400 dollar weekend deal mainly consider that they are getting their money's worth. In fact, there are guys who go there and do the weekend thing for the purpose of finding someone to hookup with. It might be pricey compared to hanging out at some club for a night, but, the atmosphere is far more conducive, and, in my opinion, a far easier deal than clubs. No stinkerette smoke to put up with, no overly loud music that destroys any possibility of a conversation, no having to put up with all her friends that she disappears to the "powder room" with that might advise her negatively, none of the she has to make sure that her friends get hooked up as well before you get yours, etc. I came to know and loathe the club scene way back when. I had to deal with it because it was my only shot at the time. So for 400 bucks, Landmark, with all their silly games and exercises, is probably a better deal if you are trying for a hookup. If you go a few times, you probably get good at the game as well. A friend of mine went to Landmark a few times and always found a hookup. Of course, he has a bad habit of dating chicks that are on Prozac.

Meanwhile, perphaps you can fill me in on the avatar game, not sure what that one is all about.

Pete