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Thread: My leaving story

  1. #21
    Cabal Of One Panda Termint's Avatar
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    Part 4, please!
    Dave Gibbons - Sydney, Australia.
    Scientologist: 1974 - 2008
    Ex-scientologist: 2008 - 2014
    Human Being: 2014 -
    I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.
    I do believe everything I write.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Once bitten View Post
    Thanks for your story .... It's really readable and interesting. Please keep going...

    It's made me think of some questions that I've had for some time though...

    Why does having the Clear cog make you feel this way? It's weird. Is it because you feel superior, and it feeds the quest to be better than others? This happens in all animal kingdoms - from the biggest toughest lion, to the kakapo (a NZ native flightless bird) with the best 'boom' at mating time.

    I remember that floating elated feeling. You felt like you were walking on air between the auditing room and the examiner. You would have signed up for anything! WHY THOUGH??? Why does it happen?

    It's the same with all auditing. I had my best wins on self analysis lists. Don't ask me why, but I did. I loved them. It was after doing them that I decided to join staff I think ... I would like to do a study to see why the body releases endorphines as a result of remembering stuff that happened to you earlier in your life.

    Any ideas?
    Thanks for the feedback Genny, really appreciated.

    I don't really know the answer to your question, but I don't think it's anything exclusive to scientology. Perhaps it is just a natural phenomenon. I know I have experienced similar things in other practices.

  3. #23
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    Thanks everyone for the replies and encouragement, it's well appreciated.

    Trying to fit this around work and family life and some sleep too, so please bear with me. More parts to come!

  4. #24
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    Part 4

    And so I returned home to my work-a-day life feeling on a high. But there were a few niggles there which refused to go away and I did my best to ignore them. For one thing, even though I was now declared Clear (fanfare), I didn’t actually feel any different at all, except for this euphoria which I had often had after sessions.

    And I had this underlying anxiety which I was just barely conscious of but which was definitely there. I think it was the fear that the whole thing was just a pretence, that I wouldn’t be able to live up to expections and that underneath all that I was really just a normal bloke.

    Scientologists I knew told me “you look great” and I must admit I liked the approval and appreciation, even though I knew it wouldn’t last (in fact one of those same people just a few years later would call me 1.1 and a criminal – completely untrue of course, honest guv).

    I puffed myself up – wow, I’m up the bridge, I’m a super dooper OT. I’ve got that je ne sais quoi. Before I’d left the org every second person seemed to come out with “you look so great” or stuff like that – especially SO members. It seemed to be the expected result – validation all round – excellent job chaps and chappesses. Another step forward to clearing the planet, now get back to work.

    But what did it all mean? Did I have new abilities? What was the point of feeling high?

    Now some might call me a nitpicker, but I do like details. And having read DMSMH many years before I knew the chapter about clear and what a clear could do. I wanted that, it was the reason why I joined in the first place. I was particularly interested in how a clear was supposed to think, which was not in words but in concepts, and at the speed of light too. Reaction time was supposed to be great, also intelligence. Well, I knew that I did think in words, and my reaction time was nothing unusual and probably less than when I joined scientology in my younger days. A clear was supposed to be free of neuroses and psychoses – I had the former if not the latter.

    Some might say that DMSMH was written yonks ago and things had changed since then, but Hubbard specifically stated in the CCRD materials that Clear as defined in DMSMH was correct. Not only that, but the book was still being sold as originally written (it was never amended or updated) and is used as a promotional tool. How could the cofs justify selling their services based on this book and not be able to deliver the state of clear as described therein?

    It seemed to me that on the basis that the church is a business selling a product, I was the customer and they had not been able to deliver me the service as advertised (ok I know there is a waiver at the beginnning of the book that no claims are being made for the subject, but really). Perhaps I did feel good in some way, perhaps it did help me temporarily, but this wasn’t what I ordered. Something seemed very wrong here.

    Then there were the grade ep’s written down in black and white (or red and white). I knew I hadn’t achieved them as stated and had even voiced it to the c/s on many occasions but they didn’t seem bothered – usually they ran a repair action which would move me on and I’d forget about the issue.

    So after a few days at home I was back to normal – exactly as things were before I’d left except 10k in debt. I stopped pretending to be super-human and got on with my life. I was angry that things had turned out like they always had for me in scientology and I felt conned… again.

    And so, I did something I was not supposed to do. Something so out-ethics and so serious that it could take me weeks or months to make up for the damage done. It could cost tens of thousands to “repair” me and I was risking losing my eternity forever. If people knew, I would be ostracised, an outcast in that little scio community.

    It’s not my fault, I just could not help myself, Lor’ please forgive me: I looked at stuff on the internet.

    (No not porn, that was another time, ok? Anway, it’s none of your f***ing business! )

  5. #25
    Silver Meritorious Patron uncle sam's Avatar
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    Default oh my gosh

    Holy crap! You tell a great tale! What the fuxk did you learn on the internet?
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zander View Post
    That's quite possible although I don't recall anyone called 'Ax'.
    Well Axiom142 is an anagram of my real name.

    Er, assuming that ‘anagram’ means replace the actual letters of your name with totally different ones and then jumble them all up.

    Your story sounds all too familiar, especially the not getting what you thought you should from the auditing. I had a very recent discussion with a friend of mine regarding the claimed abilities gained by attaining the state of clear.

    I quoted (from DMSMH, latest edition, paperback):
    In a Clear, full memory exists throughout the lifetime, with the additional bonus that he has photographic recall in color, motion, sound, etc., as well as optimum computational ability”. (page viii of the Synopsis)

    A Clear, for instance, has complete recall of everything which has ever happened to him or anything he has ever studied. He does mental computations such as those of chess, for example, which a normal would do in half an hour, in ten or fifteen seconds.” (page 208)

    He responded with:

    “Here’s a quote from the new SOS on the same subject I thought you might find interesting. I just happened to be reading this chapter recently:

    There is much misunderstanding about sonic and visio recalls in the state of Clear. These recalls are not eidetic in all cases, as photographic or phonographic recall are a matter of training and a person not trained into them will not necessarily register sights and sounds with sufficient concentration to have all the material available for immediate recall. A very large number of tests must be undertaken on the whole subject of recalls and a great number of cases must be observed before we can clearly and scientifically evaluate recall potentials in every individual when Cleared. The recalls, however, are good in those cases so far observed, but are not necessarily eidetic.” (chapter 10, Sonic, page 78).

    Then he goes on to talk about how recall is affected by position of the tone scale.

    So the question is, is he peddling back from his statements as you quoted from DMSMH, or is he just clarifying what he really meant. I’ll leave that for you to decide.”


    Well, I think Hubbard was backpedalling when he found that Clears didn’t measure up to his predicted abilities.

    So, if he realised that Clears don’t measure up, shouldn’t he have taken out all those exaggerated claims made in DMSMH? Leaving them in there and saying “This is what you get!”, when he and the CoS know it is false, is surely fraud?

    But I digress. Zander, your story is a riveting read – more please!

    Axiom142
    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Siddhartha Gautama

    “He is tall, sort of dark, and sort of handsome. Well not ugly anyway.” - Terril Park on Axiom142

    Some of my videos: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthrea...s-Video-Thread

  7. #27
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    Thanks, Zander, this is good work.
    I await, patiently, Part 5.
    Dave Gibbons - Sydney, Australia.
    Scientologist: 1974 - 2008
    Ex-scientologist: 2008 - 2014
    Human Being: 2014 -
    I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.
    I do believe everything I write.

  8. #28
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    Part 5

    Ingo Swann was a very interesting character and not the type of person you find in scn today (not that I ever met him). He was an old OT7 and a class 6 auditor and somewhat of a celebrity in scn back in the 70’s. His work was something that no scientologist does today, nor would ever be allowed to do: he was a psychic researcher working on research at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) along with another scientologist OT Harold Puthoff, work which was funded by the CIA. In fact, he played an important part in the development of techniques for remote viewing which the CIA were very interested in at the time (and perhaps still are).

    I had inherited a stack of old Advance magazines from the 1970’s which I had always kept, thinking they might be of interest sometime, but I never did that much with them. Whilst packing for a house move in the summer of 2004 I came across these magazines and started to read them. I was fascinated! The world of scientoloogy seemed so different back then.

    One of these mags had an article and interview with Ingo and desribed some of his work in paranormal research. I’d never heard of him before. The article described how he demonstrated telekinesis by affecting the output readings of a quark (subatomic particle) detector. And Ingo told too of how he had developed those remote viewing techniques at SRI. He attributed his “psychic powers” to the OT levels.

    (By the way, the telekinesis experiments were never repeated. It appeared the machine was faulty at the time which would have accounted for the change in readings!)

    My scientology indoctrination was screaming to me (quietly) “other practises” and I was amazed it was being promoted in Advance magazine.

    Being somewhat computer literate, I jumped on google to see if I could find out any further information and what had happened to him. It brought me to the website of a Danish ex-scientologist called Robert Dam. On that website was lots of information about the CofS’s history and the things that had gone down. It was electrifying! Whilst I didn’t believe all of it – some of it sounded like wild conspiracy theories – there was enough there to make me start thinking and wondering. I had a hunger for answers having been starved of information whilst in the CofS.

    I had so many questions and even more issues were coming to the fore, for example: why was Mary Sue Hubbard completely written out of the history books; what about Hubbard’s family life and children?; what happened in the early 80’s when so many people had got declared; why the prices were so high; why there seemed to be so much emphasis on pr over actual facts; what really happened to Hubbard when he disappeared from view; why did the cofs claim 10 million members when there clearly weren’t; why was the 2d definition changed in the latest ethics book and how to make sense of it.

    So it led me on a trail of other websites, freezone ones, OCMB and ARS too. I eventually settled on Beliefnet as the best place for me to lurk. This website is one about religions of all kinds and types, and there are discussion forums too. There was a moderated forum called “Scientology Debate” where various issues were discussed; it was here to which I was drawn. I found it fascinating.

    It seemed to be very hard to be certain about what had or had not happened or what the CofS was really about. But there was at least one thing I could be sure of: that the CofS was controlling information about Hubbard and about itself and its own history. I wanted to know why and to get all the facts. What harm could there be in that?

    To put this in context, this was about 6 months before I arrived at St Hill for my advance program but I felt I had to take the story back at bit to fill in this gap. So when I did arrive at St Hill I’d already read quite a bit of stuff on the internet but whilst I was on-lines I had to abstain as it seemed to be severely frowned upon (I could say more about that, but will leave it for another time!).

    So I think it’s time for a short summary for those who have lost track – including myself and I was even there at the time!.

    Part 1 began by describing how I had gone offlines in 1996, having achieved an OTV certificate and an unconfrontably large debt. As described here, in summer 2004 I found out about Ingo Swann and was led to anti-scientology websites and the Beliefnet discussion forums. Then in late 2004 I was given the r-factor that I was not clear after all, and was invited to St Hill for an advance program to rectify that. I told of some experiences that I had whilst there and also of my being declared Clear (fanfare) once more. And I then I returned home feeling temporarily high, but otherwise really no different. I explained my underlying doubts abouts the state of clear as advertised and left off Part 4 with the “admission” that I began to look at things on the internet, but at this point I should correct that and say that I began to look at the internet again, having refrained for a little while.

    So, having digressed, we are now back again to where we were at the end of Part 4, at the end of December in 2004. I was back at home in my normal life, I had not achieved the desired result of the auditing program and I was reading with great interest information about scientology on the internet.

    Subequent parts will tell how I returned to St Hill for further handlings, the events which unfolded there and the circumstances in which I left (yes, we will get there eventually!).
    Last edited by Zander; 6th February 2009 at 02:58 PM.

  9. #29
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    Zander, very interesting story and so much of it has a familiar ring, for sure.

    Interesting how Scn has all this stuff about good communication, pan determined-ness, the Manners PL, etc, yet so many Scn'ists are surly, uncommunicative, inefficient, unfair, etc.
    I am truly into myself, yes. And I'm just as interested in other people. When I'm not thinking of one, I'm thinking of the other.

  10. #30
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    Default Excerpt from Advance mag about Ingo Swann

    Here's an excerpt from that Advance mag from July/August 1978 about Ingo Swann. They really seem impressed with him. I like how they referred to Uri Geller as a "superpsychic".

    Ingo informed SRI scientists that he did not want to waste his time with any experiment that had critical loopholes. Puthoff responded by challenging Ingo to affect the quark detector, a device buried in five feet of concrete under the basement of Stanford’s Varian Hall of Physics, and heavily shielded against all outside influences. Exhaustive testing had confirmed that no magnetic signals could penetrate the complex shielding. Even superpsychic Uri Geller had refused to test his powers against this formidable apparatus.

    “Frankly the urge to retreat was paramount,” recalls Ingo, “but I quickly understood that here was an opportunity that should not be flummoxed by a pantywaist attitude.” Ingo accepted the challenge.

    After a few minutes of concentration the frequency of the output signal, incredibly, doubled. Then there was an astonished silence, then pandemonium broke loose.

    One of the scientists giggled, and suggested that this output variation was possibly some sort of system noise. What, then, asked Ingo would be an unequivocal test?
    “Stop the trace.”
    “Zonk!
    For about 45 seconds, the output recorded penned a flat trace. Then Ingo “let go.” The room was in an uproar.

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