The beginning

[Terril park]

Is there even any CL8 or above training up people on the NOTs material?

Challenge

Glen Samuels was on the first NOTs course and among other things he acts as senior C/S for Pat and Ray Kreniks group in Washington state. Lots of products which you would maybe go to ACT for example to read.

Pierre also mentors and C/Ses people re NOTs including personal friends. Outside of the auditor and C/S chair he can be a liability.One is Pierrot from Belgium, occasional poster here, who also
is in effect class VIII. Ken Urquhart told me he couldn't handle a difficult case without Pierrot's C/Sing. Then there is Mary and
Franklin Freeman. Frank Davis in the mid west.

Then there is Ron's orgs. I have no opinion re NOTs v Excal,
but they do lots!

[Jachs]

I found this interesting because when a psychiatrist is going through the diagnostic process for ADHD, if there is a concern that bipolar disorder exists, stimulants such as amphetamines and methylphenidate are only used VERY carefully (with ultra low starting doses) because they can induce mania in someone who is bipolar. It sounds more to me that Hubbard preferred to think he could not have mania because that would indicate the possibility of a mental disorder such as bipolar. In the 50s this was a worse stigma than having the "big C". If you pretend it is drug induced, you can pretend that it is external and not part of you, and that you have control over it.

Stigma can cause a lot of odd behavior. For instance, David Lander (the actor that played Squiggy on Laverne and Shirley) hid his multiple sclerosis on the set and preferred everyone think that he was drunk rather than face the stigma of having a disease such as MS.

The similarities between Hubbard's descriptions of drug induced mania and the descriptions of bipolar symptoms, and Hubbard's behaviors are all so similar...

I find people to be fascinating. I have always thought my father-in-law exhibited some bipolar behaviors, and he may have been modeling Hubbard's behavior to a certain extent.

I definitely believe Hubbard was avoiding being viewed as a manic, and justified his manic behavior, his traits were being discussed by auditors & public ( hubbard doesnt give specifics so why should I), and those recognising his manic-ness were passing it on.

The background
On 26 June 1951 Hubbard gave 4 lectures for Science of Survival, earlier that year (feb march 51) he had just been publicly accused of being mentally ill, lost his Dianetic Foundations from bankruptcy & fled to Cuba with Richard deMille , was physically & mentally ill, paranoid, (He dictated SOS whilst there ) deMille witnessing a worsening condition called Don Purcell with an urgent request for help, Purcell chartered a private plane and sent a nurse,Hubbard returned around April 15 1951.

So on one of the SOS lectures he describes Manic, but i think he is describing himself.He is altering the Definition of Manic to Euphoria, when that is only one insignificant part of the definition from Psycho-analysis at the time.

Im going to tell you how to bust a manic, you scan out all the times they feel good and youll wind up sitting in the middle of a manic engram. ..

Boy dont let these manics fool you. Theres plenty of them walking in the society, theres people walking around in a manic! ...

A person whos walking around in one of these "ive got to feel good" things feels like hell actually.they feel bad, they feel hectic,strained.

Now , I repeat the cure for that [manic]again, Just find out what the person is too high on[toned].

Fast forward to 25 August 1966 explanation.

Note the change of reference from 1951 "I" to the 1966 "WE" (were wrong)
and recanting on manic, its only ever euphoria, (Inaccurate definition) but its good now, and THE reason this Euphoric person was attacked was for feeling good.

And in those days I took the psychoanalytic explanation. It wasn’t that we were doing psychoanalysis, it was just—if you understand what I’m talking to you about on this—was because we accidentally (OT) were getting into psychoanalytic patients and practitioners. They were moving in our direction.

And we used to attribute it to the fact that she’d( patient) not been benefited but had just hit a manic. Get that phrase: "hit a manic"—had become manic for three days. Therefore one could say it was very dangerous that she was processed and all this. I know today exactly what happened to her, all these ages afterwards. She hit an SP, man, and he plowed her through the wall. I even know the guy’s name. (recently edited name- the publicly vilified was Art Ceppos, not a psychiatrist )She maybe hit more than one. But boy, she sure went through the wall. And that was simply a rolly coaster: better—worse.

There is no such thing as a manic—a person gets on an enthusiastic euphoria that life is great. It’s just that psychiatrists[Ceppos wasnt a Psychiatrist] hate people in that condition. And so they promptly cave them in. They go bow! The guy says, "Wow, at last I realize I can be sane, and isn’t the world wonderful!"

"Oh, my God! You’re in a manic. We’ve got to give you eighteen extra shocks and transorbital leukotomies and trowohkhhr!"

Hubbard is displaying manic ,if he believes psychiatrists give brain operations for feeling Euphoric.what a 'joke', isolate the definition and then say it never existed.

Whats more disturbing is those studying these flip flops, getting lunatic ideas.

[shadow]

Thanks for the additional info Jachss99.
Between how immature the neurosciences and psychiatry were in the 50s and on; combined with the stigma of mental illness, I can really see why the "self-help" movement really took off. Then there was the bonus of being told you can have complete control over all aspects of your health and life, and save the planet on top of all those personal benefits.

It is a shame it was an elaborate trap and that the human cost has been so high. I was not "in", but I married into a family that was on the Apollo until the families were sent home. My spouse went off the radar in his teens (before I met him), so have been on the periphery. Until recently, I puzzled over the lack of inter-family communication about so many sensitive subjects, and the constant threat of family being torn apart. I have watched family members grow up without an education and without medical care, both could have been life changing.

I started really trying to get educated on all of this several years ago to keep my kids away from scn. In the process, I have heard so many heartbreaking stories and seen so many people that are truly remarkable.

[Jachs]

Thanks for the additional info Jachss99.
Between how immature the neurosciences and psychiatry were in the 50s and on; combined with the stigma of mental illness, I can really see why the "self-help" movement really took off. Then there was the bonus of being told you can have complete control over all aspects of your health and life, and save the planet on top of all those personal benefits.

It is a shame it was an elaborate trap and that the human cost has been so high. I was not "in", but I married into a family that was on the Apollo until the families were sent home. My spouse went off the radar in his teens (before I met him), so have been on the periphery. Until recently, I puzzled over the lack of inter-family communication about so many sensitive subjects, and the constant threat of family being torn apart. I have watched family members grow up without an education and without medical care, both could have been life changing.

I started really trying to get educated on all of this several years ago to keep my kids away from scn. In the process, I have heard so many heartbreaking stories and seen so many people that are truly remarkable.

No probs,


When you say the neuro sciences & Psychiatry were immature , i guess you had to be back in that time. The psychiatrists that were drawn to Hubbard appear to be mature but blinded by the expectancy of decency.

I can see too why the self help movement really took off like a balloon, pity in didnt just remain a book .

[Operating DB]

This is good stuff challenge.

I recall a Hubbard lecture with him warning about the psychs diagnosing Manic, he came across pretty concerned that the psychs used this term, was that state of man lectures?he got cranky saying there was no such thing as a manic. ill see if i can dig it up.

Looking at the effects of the drugs on Hubbard and his paranoid policies, high volumes of talk there is definitely similarities.

Amphetamine Effects
Mentally, you start to feel confident and elated, along with an increased desire to communicate. alertness and endurance increases. Often users talk (write) fast and continually.

Taking cocaine makes users feel on top of the world. People taking it feel wide-awake, confident and on top of their game.

People who use coke regularly often develop serious problems with anxiety and paranoia.

Mixing Cocaine and Heroin induce hypomania and/or mania
Classic symptoms of hypomania include mild euphoria, a flood of ideas, endless energy, and a desire and drive for success.

In full-blown drug induced mania, the manic person will feel as though his or her goal(s) trump all else, that there are no consequences or that negative consequences would be minimal, and that they need not exercise restraint in the pursuit of what they are after.

Mania is always relative to the normal rate of intensity of the person, an intelligent person may adopt seemingly "genius" characteristics and an ability to perform and to articulate thought beyond what they can do in a normal mood.

There are different "stages" or "states" of drug mania. A minor state is essentially hypomania and, like hypomania's characteristics, may involve increased creativity, wit, gregariousness, and ambition. Full-blown mania will make a person feel elated, but perhaps also irritable, frustrated.

Other elements of mania may include delusions (of grandeur, potential, or otherwise), hypersensitivity, hypersexuality, hyper-religiosity, hyperactivity, impulsiveness, talkativeness, an internal pressure to keep talking (over-explanation) or rapid speech, grandiose ideas and plans, and decreased need for sleep (e.g. feeling rested after 3 or 4 hours of sleep).

In manic and hypomanic cases, the afflicted person may engage in out-of-character behavior, such as questionable business transactions, wasteful expenditures of money, risky sexual activity, recreational drug abuse, abnormal social interaction, or highly vocal arguments uncharacteristic of previous behaviors.

These behaviors may increase stress in personal relationships, lead to problems at work and increase the risk of altercations with law enforcement. There is a high risk of impulsively taking part in activities potentially harmful to self and others.

See Hubbard there rattling out Pulp fiction at a high whine induced & fuelled by coke and heroin. Ron the self medicator.

I wouldn't be surprised if Hub was on drugs when he wrote DMSMH. These drug symptoms (hypomania) and the fact that he supposedly wrote in 3 weeks seem to indicate. And the fact that it is poorly written.

[Jachs]

I wouldn't be surprised if Hub was on drugs when he wrote DMSMH. These drug symptoms (hypomania) and the fact that he supposedly wrote in 3 weeks seem to indicate. And the fact that it is poorly written.

One of the Chapters of Dianetis is supposedly Excalibur which was a Nitros oxide trip, why stop a good thing.

- Hubbard's household manager
"There were two and a half versions of Excalibur. I read them and I
didn't go mad and I didn't commit suicide. They also include the
information within related writings, that these came out of a nitrous
oxide incident. Hubbard had a couple of teeth extracted, and it was
while under the effect of nitrous oxide, that he came up with
Excalibur."

I reckon he was high as a kite too punching out DMSMH.

[Jachs]

delete

[Operating DB]

"Quote Originally Posted by GERRY ARMSTRONG
- Hubbard's household manager
"There were two and a half versions of Excalibur. I read them and I
didn't go mad and I didn't commit suicide. They also include the
information within related writings, that these came out of a nitrous
oxide incident. Hubbard had a couple of teeth extracted, and it was
while under the effect of nitrous oxide, that he came up with
Excalibur."

Hrmmph! I had nitrous oxide once at the dentist and it did nothing for me. Totally boring! I was very disappointed. I was expecting some wonderful relaxing high. But nada!

Gee, he had two teeth extracted? His OT powers didn't extend to his teeth now did they?

[CarmeloOrchards]

bump

[Gib]

bump

I re bump cuz I can't read it all tonight, but tomorrow I can.