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Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by AnonKat, Jul 15, 2010.
Sling your mud if you have to, but I like to discuss this in the light of these comments.
IMO people need to know exactly how disconection works if they are going into battle with the COS , beause the cult will bring up the "Disconnection Cancelled" policy.
While the submissions were being heard for the inquiry in OZ, Virginia Stewart claimed she has never ever heard of disconnection in the COS -only from the media.
I think she went too far there, because AFAIK the Disconnection Cancelled Policy is part of many staff courses, especially HCO hats but maybe even on Staff Status 2 etc....(I had to study it when I was in).
The thing is....the Diconnection Cancelled Policy has to be studied precisely because everyone in the org has to know the *shore story* so as to prevent staff members openly refering to diconnection as a policy. So Virginia Stewart went too far, she *should* have just said that Disconnection had been cancelled and *could* have submitted the policy.
None of this is meant to say that disconnection *really* is/was cancelled of course - just that it was a *shore story*
It is possible that the Disconnection Cancelled policy did not apply to all countries. I think it came out originally after an Inquiry in NZ, or OZ.
Saying Disconnection is canceled and actually doing it are two entirely different things, Hubbard practiced Disconnection on his own children right up until his death. Scientology can not co-exist with non-Scientologists who are not willing to participate in the role playing con game. The Suppressive Person Policy is there for a reason, it is to shelter cult members from the truth.
I don't remember any Disconnection policies being canceled.
However, I do remember a "Fair Game" policy supposedly being canceled.
Back in the day disconnection was nothing like it is now. Others may have had different experiences back in the day, but "disconnection" wasn't anything I witnessed seeing problems about. (I had other issues, but not this one.)
I never disconnected from anybody in my life when I was in -- 1972 through 1988 or so. I always knew I had the right to do so, but only remember being coached in ethics to resolve conflicts through two-way communication or (if things were just unnegotiable) through "good roads and fair weather" communication. The emphasis back in the day was to make the church look good. Not stupid like all this disconnection stuff does now.
I do remember seeing goldenrod on people occasionally, but if I knew specific people who'd been declared, I also thought they were assholes -- not in how they thought about the Church, but in how they treated other people. Seemed to me like they actually were assholes.
It's a whole other kind of joint down there now. I honestly don't even recognize it. It's a whole other kind of thing.
What goes on now is just freakin insane! In fact, it's so insane it's like the CoS is just painting a big old target on its chest and back and yelling: "Here, we are. Come get us. We want to be wiped out!" This disconnection shit doesn't even make any sense from any perspective I can imagine the CoS might hold.
I remember sometime around 1977 that the GO announced to the org that anyone who was disconnected should reconnect and handle their scene with whomever they were disconnected from because the disconnection policy was causing bad PR. So, everyone was required to reconnect, but I never saw any policy on it or anything in writing. Then sometime later, I don't know when, the disconnection policy went back into play again.
If Hubbard didn't want to talk to his kids, that's his business, but it's not okay for the CoS to force what LRH wanted to do with his life, and his family, on anyone else.
The fair game policy is still effective and being used. Use of the *term* "fair game" was what was canceled by the policy letter because of the "bad PR" it caused.
I completely agree, but the point I'm making is Hubbard knew first hand the con game can not work if people who refuse to play the game are allowed to be around the ones who are playing. His disconnection policy was based on his own first hand experience. It is a very important component of the con game, Scientology will never work in an open society. If it did work in an Open Society, do you think Terril would waste half his life posting those silly Tech outside COS: Success stories propaganda pieces? He wouldn't have to advertise it, people would be knocking down the doors if it really delivered.
Why would anyone "sling mud" on this?
So, where is the policy letter that was reinstituted? Anyone got a date and title?
There would need to be an actual policy letter that discontinued it, before it would need to be re-instituted. Is there a policy letter that discontinued it?
Because In essence what I ask is to differentiate between Hubbard and Miscavige.
If there is none so be it but if in this case Miscavige reinstated a cancelled or "cancelled" disconnection policy I like to know.
There are going to be scientologists so I like to know precisely what is what. I don't mind there being scientologists if they strip the shit back to before KSW doctrine.
Hubbard throws science overboard tottaly especcially in 1958 when he called Darwinian theory an Implant in a lecture
If scientologists want to believe that so be it. Better call themselves Implantologists
Are you working on the idea that if disconnection was cancelled as a policy by Hubbard, then instances of disconnection happening now are to be blamed on Miscavige?
There are the orders and advices that were not made public but were to be followed by the GO / OSA. There could be a lot more in there (written by Hubbard) than in the one or two? green on white policies. Orders which *could* contradict the policy.
You're thinking along the same lines as I am. To start with, what is the original reference Vaughn is referring to? And then where is the cancellation reference and refers back to reinstituting the original?
I also was never told to disconnect with anyone. However, after I left the SO in 1981, (routed out per policy, never declared, no ethics condition imposed, no Feeloader bill, nothing suggested about how to get back 'in')nobody from scientology contacted me or had any communication with me until the Basics push, 25+ years later. Then, it was apparently ok per policy for everyone and his dog to phone me everyday at any time for more than a year to not only buy the Basics but to try and get me back on lines. Also to visit at my home all friendly and not a hint that I was bad, bad, bad for leaving the SO and the whole shebang for that length of time.
What changed? In some respects it seems DM intensified disconnection, in other situations, reconnection seems to have been pushed. It is all a bit weird, like disconnection could be waived for the possibility of increased income.
My husband and I were working in a franchise in Omaha. My brother had bought some books seen an intro or something. He apparently stated his opinion of Scn to the franchise holder. Next thing I know we were told to disconect from him. come on now.:confused2:
I disregarded the order, and my husband would drive me out to my brothers house for a visit and sit in the car. He was always following orders ! At least he did not write a KR on me.
Jim Logan tried this one about 6 months ago on the Scientology Forum.
He wrote a big fatwa on it.
The thing is that L Ron Hubbard wrote an HCOPL in the mid-1960's (1964) called the Suppressive Acts PL which made it a suppressive act to remain connected to a person who was declared suppressive by HCO.
That PL was never canceled anywhere, by anyone. It is still in force to this day - never having not been in force since the first day L Ron Hubbard wrote it himself and issued it.
Therefore, it has always been a high crime to remain connected to someone HCO has deemed an SP.
Therefore, no one has ever canceled disconnection since it was first created by L Ron Hubbard in 1964.
In response to inquiries being held in New Zealand and Ireland in 1968, Hubbard wrote a letter to these inquiries telling them that disconnection was canceled, but he never amended the HCOPL on suppressive acts regarding disconnection from SPs. He just wrote a letter as a PR action to these two government inquiries looking into the abuses of scientology at the time, and lying to them about it.
LRH was lying when he said he canceled disconnection, as he lied about so much else.
Until the Suppressive Acts HCOPL is canceled, enforced disconnection in Scientology will never be canceled.
Don't let anyone ever lie to you about this ever again.
Here's Hubbard's letter to the commision in New Zealand:
Here's the link to the whole thing:
In my time in Scio is has always been enforced ALWAYS.
"Miscavige said that we had to reinstitute the Policy of Disconnection and that I was to write the policy for this."
This means LRH wrote it in the first place he thought it up and he himself enforced it.
To possibly try put it out there that disconnection is not LRH is the biggest load of sh.t I have read.
Disconnection was related to SP declares.
SP declares were never canceled as a policy.
On another related note, "fair game" was never canceled either... for declared SPs.