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A bold statement.

Veda

Sponsor
Yes, I remember "middle aged man" Alex telling us he was a man. I wonder whatever happened to him? He seems to have disappeared from the net (he was banned from here, IIRC). Have you seen any footprints/fingerprints which lead you to believe he just changed Identities?

And yet there is another person, a woman now deceased, who apparently used the name Alex R Singh and told her daughter she posted here as "Alex". I've always thought there was more than one Alex but I could be wrong, of course.

As you well know, a User Name on ESMB is just a User Name, it doesn't tell us much else about the person behind it unless that person chooses to tell us stuff and even then... It's kinda like when a guy at a protest tells you he's "Alex", you might choose to believe him or you might choose to proceed with caution.

'Lovesnightsky meets "Alex" at protest' thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?5010-LULZ-Alex!!!!!&p=76682&highlight=alex

There's another thread where this is discussed also, but it's not important enough to search for.

Alex also posted - at one time - a link to a face book page featuring a 20 something Indian man named Alex Singh. He began his stint on the Net playing dishonest games and finished his stint on the net playing dishonest games.

The person who played "Alex" was usually the same person, but he had a helper. Alex was/is a guy. IMO, he was also an "Op," and also an insincere love-poem-spewer, (schmoozing tech, apparently some kind of Internet "poem-generator") and also a malevolent bullshitter.

And that's enough about that subject.
 
True, I picked an experience that I had as a student auditor, and it was cut and dried as to cause and result. Whether the result is consistent, I haven't run it on enough people to verify that. I seriously doubt it was due to placebo effect, since there was none of the usual hype going on. Just hi - here is a pc for you, she needs to have her grades expanded, you are going to start with SA. Read the folder, read the c/s and get her in session.

Yes, she wanted some auditing, yes she put some value in it, and yes there was a change. Would all of the things that Olska have produced that result? Perhaps.

It would be interesting to know if other auditors have had similar results. There is a lady in Florida who only runs SA on people, and then FSM's them for the rest of their bridge at a local mission. Apparently it works well enough for her.

That is the big point - for all of the countless folders of auditing, Hubbard never ordered a study to validate his results. Whether he believed in the results and felt that they were evident enough not to warrant proof, or he knew they were sprinkles on a cake made of sh*t, we don't know for sure.

Plenty of people have had gains, my wife for instance makes no bones about the fact she had gains, but she asserts she is not "OT". Scientology hasn't delivered the McGuffin as the movie parlance goes.

I have had things happen in session, or due to auditing that none of Olska's list would or could have produced. Never in a million years.

Thanks Ron, for leaving us with a "dogs breakfast"

Mimsey
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Gadfly and Veda, I concede that some "gains" are possible. But these gains are achievable through other resources at much lest cost, financially, emotionally and spiritually. :angry: And no, I do not mean the indie path.

I don't have enough information to know if that is true, and it is NOT for a lack of trying to answer that (whether the same or similar gains of Scn are available in "other modalities").

For example, take the phenomena known as "line charging". There were many times in session where I would answer a seemingly innocuous enough question, and BANG, it was like the floor fell out from under me. I am not exaggerating at all. Charge (energy) was exiting out of me by the bundle, and I would BURST into uncontrollable fits of laughter. It was like experiencing intense JOY, but without ANY "reason".

It happened many times to/for me. That sure NEVER happened in my many years of meditations, visualization, study of other practices, etc.

So, I AM curious. In the name of honestly, has ANYONE reading this ever experienced a similar sort of thing in ANY "other practice" or religion? Heck, when I was doing OT II the line-charge went on for almost 10 minutes. It was truly mind-boggling, and it was "wonderful". I felt "cleaned out" on a mental level. I was, how should I say, ecstatic (like in flights of "religious ecstasy").

This line-charging always was concurrent with or ended with some great "key-out"' "incredible happiness" or "exteriorization". I remember when it first happened in Life Repair, and I was amazed. It was intense and severe - in the best of possible ways. I had no idea that such a thing could, should or would happen. I was totally unprepared for such a dramatic "mental and physical phenomena". Especially at the very BEGINNING of my involvement with Scientology auditing. Of course, I wanted MORE of THAT.

I have heard people state that "all of the same gains you ever got in Scientology are available elsewhere". Okay. Just as far as this ONE THING known as "line-charging", where? Please fill me in, because after quite a bit of study, looking and examination, I have NEVER found ANY other "therapy" or "technique" designed to or able to bring about this (highly desirable) thing called "line-charging". :confused2:

Note: I am NOT familiar with every therapy or practice, and have NOT surveyed every person on Earth. So I AM "missing data".

Oh also, I wasn't the "only one". I knew friends who reported the same thing to me over the years, and I SAW people come out of session in similar states.

So, if the "tech" doesn't "work", then WHAT exactly brought about that effect "consistently" in different people?

And, where are the "other practices" that provide the same or similar "floor falling out from under me" phenomena? Over and over and over?

I am curious how many will explain this all away, excuse it as "something else", or ignore the question, and fail to provide any sort of honest and convincing answer. Please, point me to the people and practices that get a SIMILAR result. Note: I was NOT unconscious, out of it, hallucinating, dreaming or on any sort of "trance". I was THERE, in present time, in the moment, like NEVER before!

There is a thing I really HATED asbout Scientology. It was how any Scientology church member or staff member would explain away, excuse, justify or ignore the question, for example, with something about Paulette Cooper, and with anything that questioned or disputed the accepted Hubbard/Scientology party-line. They REFUSED to honestly look at ANYTHING that disrupted their fixed model of reality. It saddens me when I see it here also on ESMB.

Truth is all that matters (to me), and not whether the "facts" fit some person's preconceived notions or not. But it works both ways.

And maybe, there ARE some or many other techniques out there, readily available, and cheap, that can blast me out of my head by answering a few questions and quickly push me into a state of peace, serenity, joy and "being there without effort".
 
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Veda

Sponsor
Exploitation of the process of abreaction: "aberrative" pleasure moment in a cult

-snip-

Heck, when I was doing OT II the line-charge went on for almost 10 minutes. .

-snip-

Something triggered something. Whatever it was, was real enough, and the laughter was real, and the relief was real.

However, you laughed for ten minutes while addressing what was said to be ancient previously inaccessible universal history (provided in your confidential materials) on route out of the labyrinth, escaping the next endless agonized trillions, on your way to becoming an Operating Thetan, and now, every time it's mentioned, it, unintentionally, becomes a commercial for OT 2 and, by, implication, the rest of the OT levels. Do you recommend that people do OT 2 and the Scientology Bridge? And if not, why not? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnL0Mnu46z8

Other people have similar experiences, but they're not associated with anything, and are often not remembered. There's no significance to them.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Exploitation of the process of abreaction: "aberrative" pleasure moment in a cult

Something triggered something. Whatever it was, was real enough, and the laughter was real, and the relief was real.

However, you laughed for ten minutes while addressing what was said to be ancient previously inaccessible universal history (provided in your confidential materials) on route out of the labyrinth, escaping the next endless agonized trillions, on your way to becoming an Operating Thetan, and now, every time it's mentioned, it, unintentionally, becomes a commercial for OT 2 and, by, implication, the rest of the OT levels. Do you recommend that people do OT 2 and the Scientology Bridge?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnL0Mnu46z8

Other people have similar experiences, but they're not associated with anything, and are often not not remembered. There's no significance to them.

Do I recommend that people do OT 2 and the Scientology Bridge?

That is an interesting question. I wouldn't, haven't in a VERY long time, and don't ever "send" people to any version of Scientology. But, if someone was curious about it, and wanted to play around with such things, I would tell them all I know, warn them totally AWAY from the organized Church, and send them looking at the FZ. But, I would also add that I have ZERO experience with the FZ.

My experiences all occured in the official Church, and as I have said before, explicity and adamently, NO PERSON should EVER get involved with THAT insidious, deceitful and manipulative group of goons. THAT is also a FACT. :confused2:

There really ARE contradictions in Scientology.

I am simply reporting what "happened". I suppose it is up to others to "make sense of it".

I would add that it was NEVER a "laugh of humor". It was as if something was going on so intensely "on the inside", that the only thing the "body" could do was "laugh". Often when the phenomena occurred, I was partially or fully "outside of myself".

I just would like to know WHERE these sorts of things can be obtained elsewhere, as others claim.

NOTE: When the line-charging happened on Life Repair, and the lower grades, and it happened MORE and the most intensely EARLY ON (besides OT II), it had absolutely nothing to do with "addressing what was said to be ancient previously inaccessible universal history (provided in your confidential materials) on route out of the labyrinth, escaping the next endless agonized trillions, on your way to becoming an Operating Thetan".
 
'Lovesnightsky meets "Alex" at protest' thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?5010-LULZ-Alex!!!!!&p=76682&highlight=alex

There's another thread where this is discussed also, but it's not important enough to search for.

Alex also posted - at one time - a link to a face book page featuring a 20 something Indian man named Alex Singh. He began his stint on the Net playing dishonest games and finished his stint on the net playing dishonest games.

The person who played "Alex" was usually the same person, but he had a helper. Alex was/is a guy. IMO, he was also an "Op," and also an insincere love-poem-spewer, (schmoozing tech, apparently some kind of Internet "poem-generator") and also a malevolent bullshitter.

And that's enough about that subject.

I agree he was an Op...Given this view, "IMO, he was also an "Op," and also an insincere love-poem-spewer, (schmoozing tech, apparently some kind of Internet "poem-generator") and also a malevolent bullshitter.", I think I very likely may know who he was/is IRL. Aw, crap!
 

La La Lou Lou

Crusader
If there's hundreds of people looking I doubt if they're staff they must be OSA helpers doing amends projects to get back on lines. People who feel guilty that they once spoke to an SP, or told a reg to ''sod off''. I do hope so. Doubt is such a good healthy condition to be in. Hello out there please feel free to rethink your stable data! Use your time here to actually open your eyes and see what's going on. Actually do the doubt formula properly and don't let anyone tell you what the outcome has to be, it's your ethics not anyone else's.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
"Most users ever online was 5863, 25th January 2008 at 12:51 PM.
What the heck was happening on the 25th of Jan 08 for there to be 5,863 users online?"
Synthia,

If I remember right, I think this was when the famous Tom Cruise video escaped onto the Internet and was getting massive media coverage; also the Andrew Morton Tom Cruise biography hitting the stores.

I think Internet media stories created tons of curious lurkers right around then.

ILove2Lurk

Gees, I remember this, and it eventually led me to ESMB. After seeing a blurb in the news about that bio, and scno, I got the book and read it. I had previously read all anti books from exes, the OGs, but never really got online looking for anything. After the TC bio, I began keeping an eye on news for anything scno - and eventually BFG's book hit the news. And I followed that thread, read his book, his site, clicked his links, and came here . . . . Ariadne's thread . . . :eyeroll: Sorry to get a bit off subject.
 

Lurker5

Gold Meritorious Patron
Face it, that cult and its misleading "tech" and pile upon pile of Hubbard-spewed lies is effectively dead. Just isn't fully buried yet. Scientology has, in fact, just become

BOOOOOOORINGGGGG



IMHO it was always boring. What I found interesting and exciting about it, is what came out of ME, about it, for it. I made it interesting, with my inner creativity and idealism. Later on I began to realize that scno itself was just boring. Boring boring boring. I took my interesting inner self to other practices and felt the same interest and excitement, and sometimes eventually boredom, too. :wink2: I learned how to take what was good and valuable, and discard what was not - for now. And to never close my mind. Life is a journey - and I learned how to pay attention to that. Scno/co$ closes all those doors. :confused2::unsure:
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Exploitation of the process of abreaction: "aberrative" pleasure moment in a cult

-snip-

I would add that it was NEVER a "laugh of humor".

-snip-

Steve Allen wasn't trying to make himself laugh. He didn't want to laugh. He was working. The audience was supposed to laugh, not he; but something triggered a response which included uncontrolled sustained laughter.

People laugh at things that aren't funny sometimes, and sometimes in very inappropriate places. Sometimes the laughter is prolonged, but it's not attached to any significance.

-snip-

NOTE: When the line-charging happened on Life Repair, and the lower grades, and it happened MORE and the most intensely EARLY ON

-snip-

Oh, I don't recall you having mentioned line-charging on Life Repair and the lower grades before. :)

P.S. But I just did a search and see that you have.

Good.
 
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Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Exploitation of the process of abreaction: "aberrative" pleasure moment in a cult

Oh, I don't recall you having mentioned line-charging on Life Repair and the lower grades before. :)

From the post you responded to:

"This line-charging always was concurrent with or ended with some great "key-out"' "incredible happiness" or "exteriorization". I remember when it first happened in Life Repair, and I was amazed. It was intense and severe - in the best of possible ways. I had no idea that such a thing could, should or would happen. I was totally unprepared for such a dramatic "mental and physical phenomena". Especially at the very BEGINNING of my involvement with Scientology auditing. Of course, I wanted MORE of THAT." :)

Of course, as I have stated MANY times, I was not prepared for all the endless organizational BULLSHIT that came along with those wonderful auditing experiences.
 

olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
...
I have had things happen in session, or due to auditing that none of Olska's list would or could have produced. Never in a million years.

Care to share some examples?

And by the way, that list I made is the SHORT list. As I said there are so many things in life that can bring about radical personality and ability change (both improvement and disintegration) -- some kinda incidental, some requiring dedicated study and effort -- that they are much too numerous to mention. I left off some more specific and widely known "practices" such as

hypnosis
meditation
acupuncture
acupressure
education
... and related to education: tutoring
diet/nutrition
drugs


I'm not denying that you, or others, had "gains" during your experience with scientology -- so did I.

But were those gains possible ONLY through the practice of scientology? I doubt that claim. People looking for improvement or answers happened on scientology, got involved, used it, found some answers and/or improvements to their lives. Perhaps if they'd found something else instead, they woudl have had a similar -- even the same result.

Scientology is presented with great fanfare as something new, unusual, amazing, mind-boggling, and the ONLY way to achieve this nebulous and unspecified state called "spiritual freedom."

What exactly is that, anyway?

And while we are discussing the GAINS achieved through scientology, shouldn't we be fair and also discuss/acknowledge the LOSSES brought about by the practice of scientology? To tout only the positive side and ignore or hide the negative side of the practice of scientology -- and I mean the "tech", not the social circus that is called "management -- is, imo, dishonest.
 

Veda

Sponsor
Re: Exploitation of the process of abreaction: "aberrative" pleasure moment in a cult

From the post you responded to:

-snip-

See P.S. added to previous post.

Even the Life Repair and lower grades line-charging was attached to the significance of Scientology, the Bridge, etc.

And I'm not saying it wasn't a genuine experience, just that - when connected to Scientology and happening to a Scientologist in Scientology - it carries with it a certain significance.
 
'Lovesnightsky meets "Alex" at protest' thread:

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?5010-LULZ-Alex!!!!!&p=76682&highlight=alex

There's another thread where this is discussed also, but it's not important enough to search for.

Alex also posted - at one time - a link to a face book page featuring a 20 something Indian man named Alex Singh. He began his stint on the Net playing dishonest games and finished his stint on the net playing dishonest games.

The person who played "Alex" was usually the same person, but he had a helper. Alex was/is a guy. IMO, he was also an "Op," and also an insincere love-poem-spewer, (schmoozing tech, apparently some kind of Internet "poem-generator") and also a malevolent bullshitter.

And that's enough about that subject.

I agree he was an Op...and given this view, (which resonates with me)

"IMO, he was also an "Op," and also an insincere love-poem-spewer, (schmoozing tech, apparently some kind of Internet "poem-generator") and also a malevolent bullshitter.",

I think I very likely may know who he was/is IRL. I know someone who fits this to a T. Aw, crap! :sad: I probably also know who his "helper" is...someone he calls a "good friend" who is more deeply mired in the COS mind-fuck than he is, and with whom he has done "projects" over the years. :no:

IF so, he's Ex SO, considers himself public stalled on the Bridge, been doing amends and been trying to work off freeloader debt and work his way back into COS good standing for years now...I think he's worked for OSA for a very long time. He's skilled at manipulation and the biggest and most constant liar I've ever known. I think he very likely may have a psychological disorder (or two). He's wasted about half of his adult life on Scientology, with no real signs of life improvement or recovery from it yet...unable to hold a job, living at the expense of others, and can't sustain personal relationships...only the appearance of "relationships" on-line. He is a schmoozing tech and love poem wielding bullshitter who lives most of his life on-line. That describes him perfectly, and I think OSA is using him.

I pray for his soul whenever I think about him.

And that's enough said about that. :sadsigh:

You know, I really do feel a lot of compassion for all Scientologists, current and former, in, out, and in-between. They all are/were stuck in a cult, some of them know it and some do not, some merely suspect it...some think Scientology is their "religion", still. I really do want to do what I can to end the abuses and to help them recover...as individuals.

But sometimes, I just really wish that I had never even heard of Scientology...and I can't WAIT until they move their damn "super-secret' headquarters OUT OF MY COUNTY and AWAY elsewhere... and all that's left behind are a few old caretakers...AND WHATEVER OLD DRY BONES THEY HAVE CHIPPED UP AND SCATTERED AROUND IN THE MULCH OR THE POND OUT AT INT BASE. :unsure:

That's MY bold statement, TAJ!
 
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olska

Silver Meritorious Patron
...
So, I AM curious. In the name of honestly, has ANYONE reading this ever experienced a similar sort of thing in ANY "other practice" or religion?

Yes dahling. Two in particular come to mind:

... In twelve-step meetings, during the "sharing" part of the format.

... While doing (alone) one of the exercises from the book "The Artists' Way" -- something very spooky and amazing happened that included the type of "line charge" you're describing

Both of those are "other practices" -- neither is a religion.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Re: Exploitation of the process of abreaction: "aberrative" pleasure moment in a cult

See P.S. added to previous post.

Even the Life Repair and lower grades line-charging was attached to the significance of Scientology, the Bridge, etc.

And I'm not saying it wasn't a genuine experience, just that - when connected to Scientology and happening to a Scientologist in Scientology - it carries with it a certain significance.

I agree, and I NEVER liked a great deal of the "added significance" that was foisted upon me when involved in Scientology.

The "Hubbard paradigm" is a fictional narrative that MUST be accepted as a Scientology participant, and I saw it often as an unnecessary "add-on". Granted some of the "fiction" is part of the theory of the auditing "tech".

I always wonder what would happen to people who simply received auditing, WITH the absolute minimum of indoctrination into all the other extensive nonsense.

I am referring to the LOWER areas of the bridge where indoctrination into all the OT implants and "data" is NOT at all integral. For me, the most major and intense experiences were from Life Repair, Objectives, through Dianetics and up through the Expanded Grades. There was very little in terms of "significance", for me, as I had not yet really studied much of the "data". I sat in chair, answered questions, and stuff "happened". I walked in after having read DMSMH, wanted to "go clear", paid for auditing, and just started getting about 5 hours every day for many months. I was NOT at all an "indoctrinated true believer", and truly took the attitude that I would "give it a try and see what happens". Things happened. :confused2:

Anyway, I have given this more time and attention that I want.

As a "package deal", Scientology SUCKS!!!!!!!! :scnsucks:
 

Sindy

Crusader
The Scientology "culture" is not fun. It will never be "fun".

The Scientology organization is not "fun". It will NEVER be "fun".

But the auditing, for me, well it was ALWAYS extremely enjoyable ("fun" is NOT the correct word).

Maybe I was the only one . . . . :confused2: :duh:

I suppose there are some who look back, who did many hundreds of hours of auditing, who never got "anything" out of any of it. To me, THAT would be nuts. Did they REALLY? Were that THAT impressionable? I couldn't have EVER kept doing auditing if it were not providing me with wonderful experiences of brighter colors, vivid perceptions, and expanding space (to mention a few).

I did LOTS of drugs in college. What I am describing had NOTHING to do with those experiences.

Most of my auditing was enjoyable. Some of it was grinding and very uncomfortable.
 

Gadfly

Crusader
Most of my auditing was enjoyable. Some of it was grinding and very uncomfortable.

Yeah, looking back a bit more carefully, that was the way it was for me too. MOST of it was enjoyable. Some did suck, and felt like I was beating a dead horse (overrun, made to do actions that were unnecessary?).

There were moments in my early auditing (Grades) where I was completely content with the results. I had no need or desire to do anything else. Yet, I was always "forced" to continue on the "bridge". They SHOULD have said, "okay, go out and do what you want, and come back whenever you feel like you might want some more". But THAT sure never happened! :no:
 

Voltaire's Child

Fool on the Hill
Among the things that broke the ice with me- that really got me to start questioning my involvement with CofS- were the experiences people wrote about.

The flippant stuff is fun but it didn't get me out. Nor do I see that stuff as destructive.

I do think that the personality crap can be destructive. I believe that it may often be a result of people feeling like they know each other and just feeling free to reach out and say whatever is on their minds, including things like not being able to stand the person, you do this, you do that, etc, etc. As I've noted before, the standards for internet interaction seem largely different than IRL. I would be hard pressed to imagine what would happen to a number of people here were they to follow someone IRL from place to place insulting them and actually expecting not to get called on it. And in this I include making highly personal and judgmental evaluations of the person and then being truly at a loss to understand why the recipient might actually not like that.

The internet is a strange beast. Human reactions, perceptions and actions become magnified.
 

HelluvaHoax!

Platinum Meritorious Sponsor with bells on
Re: Exploitation of the process of abreaction: "aberrative" pleasure moment in a cult

I agree, and I NEVER liked a great deal of the "added significance" that was foisted upon me when involved in Scientology.

The "Hubbard paradigm" is a fictional narrative that MUST be accepted as a Scientology participant, and I saw it often as an unnecessary "add-on". Granted some of the "fiction" is part of the theory of the auditing "tech".

I always wonder what would happen to people who simply received auditing, WITH the absolute minimum of indoctrination into all the other extensive nonsense.

I am referring to the LOWER areas of the bridge where indoctrination into all the OT implants and "data" is NOT at all integral. For me, the most major and intense experiences were from Life Repair, Objectives, through Dianetics and up through the Expanded Grades. There was very little in terms of "significance", for me, as I had not yet really studied much of the "data". I sat in chair, answered questions, and stuff "happened". I walked in after having read DMSMH, wanted to "go clear", paid for auditing, and just started getting about 5 hours every day for many months. I was NOT at all an "indoctrinated true believer", and truly took the attitude that I would "give it a try and see what happens". Things happened. :confused2:

Anyway, I have given this more time and attention that I want.

As a "package deal", Scientology SUCKS!!!!!!!! :scnsucks:



Reading yours and other's comments on auditing, I just stopped for a moment to consider the "lower bridge" that appears to "blow charge". And I decided to (for the first time ever) quickly evaluate what I GOT or did NOT GET from the lower bridge.

My thoughts went right to "Life Repair" that I both received, audited and C/Sed on others. What jumped out at me was the handling of "charge" by going Earlier Similar or prep checking or other similar address.

Within moments I realized something interesting. . .

The apparent "chain" of earlier-similars that runs to an EP (life repair, rude, dianetics, etc, etc. etc.) is really just this:

1. COMPARING ONE'S "CHARGE" (PROBLEM, WORRY, UPSET, ETC) TO SOMETHING ELSE AND TALKING ABOUT IT. In the case of standard tech auditing, the magical paradigm is the "earlier similar" technique run to "basic" and the "blown charge".

2. IF THE CHARGE DOESN'T BLOW ON EASILY RECALLABLE EARLIER INCIDENTS, ONE IS TO FIND "WHOLE TRACK" EARLIERS.

The sudden insight that I just had is that it doesn't actually make any difference if you go earlier similar or "run" the incidents out of sequence because there is no "chain" or "basic". What Scientology tech is doing is simply asking you to "compare" what you are now struggling with to other similar things you have struggled with. It is the comparing that gets one to reach a conclusion ("cognition"). No "chain" is "blown" or erased. No transcendental spiritual ascent has taken place. The person simply figured something out. The same way I just figured out how this auditing tech works. Cogs are Cogs, whether they are pro-scientology-in-session or otherwise.

Now, if the chain construct doesn't resolve it and the person runs out of things to compare it to, they are pushed wholetrack. This is my second epiphany. . .

The pc is switched from "COMPARING" (because they can't find anything else to compare it to) to "IMAGINING" things that compare to their "charge". It is my belief that this is what "wholetrack recall" is all about in Scn. auditing. I am not suggesting that a person does or does not live more than one time, but certainly Scientology has never come within 75 million light years of proving past life recall or we would have heard about it every day for 60 years. Didn't happen.

This second technique (imagining) is just another way of "comparing" one's problems to other things, in order to gain perspective or insight.

All of this comparing and imagining can be done with an auditor or with a friend or in meditation or during sleep or many other ways. One can simply think about it and figure it out, although admittedly it is often easier to do it collaboratively with another person to speak to.

So, if I had to give a value to my auditing (wog to Clear) it would be this. I had some fun and good times. Not much really happened that changed my life any more than if I had read a great book or learned some valuable life lesson in the normal course of living.

Honestly, I get just as much "case gain" writing posts here on ESMB as I did from getting any auditing or training. The gain is in figuring out how life works a little bit.

Holyhell, have I been rambling? Somebody indicate my F/N and acknowledge me and make me stop typing, will ya? LOL
 
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