A Quid pro Quo discussion

[Wisened One]

........ But if you can imagine the kind of dedication we had where we were willing to do ANYTHING, and with no pay and no support if we had difficulties or problems. You see it came down to you must do everything for the good of the group and at the same time maintain a PR front that you were successful and happy. Complaining is just never tolerated. You are supposed to know that it is a privlege to be involved. And if you fail to deliver at any point for any reason, you must make up for it and pay the price. This is turning over your entire life. You do it willingly because you truly believe that the eternity of mankind is in your hands. I know it sounds weird. But it's true. That's why we got such a big buzz from it, IMHO.
Good Twin

Here, HERE, GT! You've said it so succinctly!

I even gave up my KIDS for scn!(was only for a few years and am back in their lives now, but STILL, THAT'S dedication, boy! My example is a drop in the bucket and kindergarten next to stories like Guesseppe's, Free To Shine, BFG, and others....

MANY of us did this, btw. NOTHING was 'as important' as 'Clearing The Planet'. This 'lifetime' is completely given over.
I remember fellow staff giving lectures like: 'What's vacations and new clothes and jewelry compared to 'going OT' and 'helping others go OT?' blablabla....(I think I'm gonna be sick, now...)

Aye, the memories...

Wisened One

 

[Good twin]

True that WO!

My kids have always been very understanding. They backed me up and supported the cause. However, they are both very happy to have me back now that I'm out. It's amazing how pleasurable it is to be able to drive your kid to the movies, or cook a meal for them, or even take a real vacation!
It took some getting used to on their part. Like "YOU are going to be able to take me?" and I nod and say "Mommy doesn't have to save the world today, baby we are a family now." - GT

 

[Wisened One]

My kids have always been very understanding. They backed me up and supported the cause. However, they are both very happy to have me back now that I'm out. It's amazing how pleasurable it is to be able to drive your kid to the movies, or cook a meal for them, or even take a real vacation!
It took some getting used to on their part. Like "YOU are going to be able to take me?" and I nod and say

"Mommy doesn't have to save the world today, baby we are a family now." - GT

:dance2:

I couldn't have said it better, myself, GT. *happysigh*

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

SomeGuy,

I really liked your post. We all have to travel the road we travel to have the experiences and realizations that we have in life.

Even though many of us here did the Scn route, we all went there for different reasons. When I was 11 my mother decided to become a Jehovah's Witness - so of course I also had to do that gig. I left that experience with NO WAY am I ever having anything to do with another "religion".

By my mid-20's I was on a search - I needed something in my life. I was a new mommy and I was living in a new state with no family and few friends, and living in the sticks - no neighbors. Well, I found Scn. And the line that hooked me was: "What's true for you...." You mean I don't have to agree with everything I hear or read? I'm in! Well, over the years, that of course changed.

In the two years that I've been OUT, I've have to get my head back on to my true self - Question Authority, Don't agree with everything I hear or read, Debate my point, no matter what the point, if the person I'm communicating with has a different point of view (not in a bad way, but just to learn and understand - part of my "true self", I've always debated), watch the news and know what's happening in the world, etc.

It's been another learning experience, these last two years. I'm still trying to settle back into myself. It's getting better, but I know I have a ways to go to be fully my True Self. And of course, I feel we are forever changing/growing creatures. So what I believe today, may just change tomorrow or in a few years, only because I learn something that will give me a different view.

And once again, I'm back to NO RELIGION. I don't label myself as an atheist, mostly because I don't like labels. But I wouldn't call myself a "believer" in God either. I will forever (most likely) consider myself a spiritual being, because I can't agree that I'm just some body and this is all there is. But I've had that viewpoint since long before Scn.

So, in summation, we all have our own path to follow. Your epiphanies are no less than anyone else's, nor greater. They are yours and yours alone. Sure, someone may have had similar. But unless someone has lived 100% the exact same experience, I don't think anyone else can fully grasp what you have lived. I can empathize with my friends heartache, but I can't fully experience it as she is, because I didn't live the life she lived. (I hope I'm getting my point understood.)

(Side note: hadn't heard/read shrooms in so long. Those were some fun trips. )

I'm glad you're here posting and giving us (at least me) a different viewpoint. I love others experiences.

 

[SomeGuy]

So, in summation, we all have our own path to follow. Your epiphanies are no less than anyone else's, nor greater. They are yours and yours alone. Sure, someone may have had similar. But unless someone has lived 100% the exact same experience, I don't think anyone else can fully grasp what you have lived. I can empathize with my friends heartache, but I can't fully experience it as she is, because I didn't live the life she lived. (I hope I'm getting my point understood.)

(Side note: hadn't heard/read shrooms in so long. Those were some fun trips. )

I'm glad you're here posting and giving us (at least me) a different viewpoint. I love others experiences.

Perfectly, It's the reason why I made this post, call it building something that can begin conversation with a commonality in place. I think I've reread the previous sentence about ten times and I'm pretty sure it's non speak so I'll try to elaborate on it.

An ex-scientologist (or even a current scientologist) will come on this board and have immidiate commonalities. I do not have that luxury so wihle the lurking is informational, it's detatched and in order to even contemplate conversing, the quid pro quo has to occur. That doesn't mean I'm expecting something in return it's that all that is already here so I have to balance that equation by adding to it.

As to the shrooms, I'm reformed! That or it's something you can only do when you are young and have no kids. I won't disavow that it was fun though.

 

[Veda]

The physical is only one side of it.

Degradation and defamation and psychological overwhelm don't always have to be "hell." Systematic and prolonged degradation etc., can even become tolerable, even have moments of relief or pleasure.

At the end of the RPF and the RPF's RPF is the writing of a "Success Story."

The product is supposed to be a "tractable" person, a "round ball bearing."

The RPF occurs INSIDE the "totalist" environment of the Scientology cult.

Scientology doctrine: Scientology = Survival and pleasure. No Scientology = Doom and pain.

Scientology also applies its "ethics" and its "rehabilitation" to children.

Some people are stronger than others. People react differently.

While the deaths occurring inside Scientology, and related to Scientology, are sometimes noted, the mental casualties - who tend to quietly "fade away" - are seldom remembered.

Link contains John McMaster quote re. "round ball bearings":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=56246&postcount=798

 

[Dulloldfart]

Yeah, what we RPFers have gone though was pretty bad, but not the worst. Not even by a longshot.

True. Maybe the RPF was degrading and physically unpleasant, but at no time was I in fear of my life.

Paul

 

[Bea Kiddo]

The physical is only one side of it.

Degradation and defamation and psychological overwhelm don't always have to be "hell." Systematic and prolonged degradation etc., can even become tolerable, even have moments of relief or pleasure.

At the end of the RPF and the RPF's RPF is the writing of a "Success Story."

The product is supposed to be a "tractable" person, a "round ball bearing."

The RPF occurs INSIDE the "totalist" environment of the Scientology cult.

Scientology doctrine: Scientology = Survival and pleasure. No Scientology = Doom and pain.

Scientology also applies its "ethics" and its "rehabilitation" to children.

Some people are stronger than others. People react differently.

While the deaths occurring inside Scientology, and related to Scientology, are sometimes noted, the mental casualties - who tend to quietly "fade away" - are seldom remembered.

Link contains John McMaster quote re. "round ball bearings":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=56246&postcount=798

Systematic prolonged degradation: The Sea Org. (and the RPF)

Wow. Thanks Veda!! That lifted off something...

 

[Kathy (ImOut)]

As to the shrooms, I'm reformed! That or it's something you can only do when you are young and have no kids. I won't disavow that it was fun though.

I figured as much - I just hadn't heard the word in so long. Just brought back some fond memories. Yes, I too am reformed. Have not touched any drugs in almost 23 years - 2 more months is my 23rd anniversary. A person gets to a point where they have to deal with life without the drug influence. I quit all drugs without any help - just stopped - then I found out I was pregnant, so I had to stay stopped. Never went back, even though I was tempted a few times.

 

[SomeGuy]

The physical is only one side of it.

Degradation and defamation and psychological overwhelm don't always have to be "hell." Systematic and prolonged degradation etc., can even become tolerable, even have moments of relief or pleasure.

At the end of the RPF and the RPF's RPF is the writing of a "Success Story."

The product is supposed to be a "tractable" person, a "round ball bearing."

The RPF occurs INSIDE the "totalist" environment of the Scientology cult.

Scientology doctrine: Scientology = Survival and pleasure. No Scientology = Doom and pain.

Scientology also applies its "ethics" and its "rehabilitation" to children.

Some people are stronger than others. People react differently.

While the deaths occurring inside Scientology, and related to Scientology, are sometimes noted, the mental casualties - who tend to quietly "fade away" - are seldom remembered.

Link contains John McMaster quote re. "round ball bearings":

http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=56246&postcount=798

Thank's Veda, the more I read the more I know certain compasisons don't fit. It's hard to relate to it in a sense beyond a superficial level. I haven't been subject except minorly to sublime mind control processes (I have one experience that might be similar but even that's a stretch).

It's interesting that the reinforcement that 'while this might suck it's good for you!" is so entrenched. As to the survivor complex that I can relate to and I think it's probably pretty common around those of you who left and felt guilty about leaving people behind. That is one of those "my cross to bare" things though, time heals all wounds (or at least deadens them).