A Raw Meat-friendly introduction?

Discussion in 'Scientology Technology' started by doloras, Apr 2, 2012.

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  1. doloras

    doloras New Member

    Greetings:

    I have had interest in the subject of Scientology for almost 20 years. I have had nothing but contempt for the fascistic shenanigans of the "official Church", and I joined the original Anonymous protests against it in 2008. However; I have also had a similar length of experience in various metapsychological practices (neo-paganism, Kenneth Grant's version of the OTO, Sufism, Cognitive Behavioural Therapy, etc) and I have seen enough similarities between what has worked for me and what is written about in some of the Scn materials to think that the "Commodore" may have made common-sense codifications of traditional occult wisdom, before he went full-bore into Cult Leader mode and invented what Veda refers to as "Implantology".

    Basically, what I am looking for is advice from those who come from a viewpoint that "Standard Tech is a trap and a scam, but there is some value in some of the Tech", as to how someone who has never been a Scientologist, and never wants to be one, might go about learning "the good stuff", comparing it to similar practices in other traditions, faiths, etc. So: what I'm asking for is "The Non-Bullshit Parts Of The Tech 101 For Raw Newbies". Thank you.

    (I fully expect and hope to get a dozen conflicting answers to this... starting points for my own research.)
     
  2. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oh Gawd!:duh:

    There are some things about my extensive cult training that I find probably workable - stuff that is loosely covered in "Level III" and "Level IV" for instance. But to separate that out from the dross that was also in those levels....:omg:

    I tried once to methodically find the good bits but gave that up and shelved the whole project, to be continued at a time when I have absolutely nothing to do but navel-gaze.:biggrin:

    Surely there must be a better way to get your stats up?:yes:
     
  3. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

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    Pete
     
  4. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    :lol:
    Not a big ask or anything!

    Anyways, I'll get my manners in, welcome to the board. :welcome2:

    And I'll try to answer that question. I do think your observation that Hubbard borrowed from the occult is accurate. No-one in Scn knows that, or almost no-one.

    So the workable parts of the tech, IMO, from the bottom were HQS, old version, probably totally different now, the tech contained in the Levels 0-IV and the repairs, found on Grad IV or Grad V course. The original version of the Happiness R/D got really good results. Confessional and particularly FPRD tech can get good results if done as an auditing action IN SESSION aimed at addressing the problems the PC is having. They can be a disaster when used as an ethics action, which should never happen, but is commonplace in CoS. On the auditing side, Life Repair was a very good action, but is no longer delivered in CoS. The grades and FPRD and HRD would be worthwhile IMO. ****I may have to duck some rotton eggs flying in my direction right about now. Sorry to those who wholesale reject all things Scientological.****

    Note that there was a big change in the tech around 92 or 93 called GAT. It was a major revision by Miscavige that made tech unworkable. The red volumes were redone in 91 with many issues missing. Get the earlier version. Ditto the books, revised now about three times. Use only those with the green covers, published prior to 1990.

    Other than Miscavige's squirrelled version of the tech, you should avoid the OT levels. They are absolute bunk. They are not confidential because they are so powerful that they would overwhelm anyone not ready for the knowledge, they are confidential because anyone not thoroughly brainwashed and already paid up would simply :dieslaughing: and never pay anything. They do require a level of indoctrination to get suckered in to. Stay well clear.

    I have heard that Power is a good level, but I have never trained on it or received it so that is only word of mouth.

    As for Scn policy, there are a few PLs that are worthwhile. Enough to fill a small magazine. These can mostly be found in the staff status courses, but not everything in the Staff Status's is worthwhile. The rest of the green volumes are best used as firestarter. Avoid especially "ethics tech", it's nasty, controlling, mindbending stuff.

    If you are going to study Scientology, I would advise you to also read here and read a lot. Look for threads that discuss how people got hooked in and "thoughtstoppers". There are some nasty ideas woven through Scientology and you need to be alert to them. They pop up all over the place. There is a poster here named Veda who will give you a heap of references showing you the dangers of Scientology. Heed what he says, he is wise.

    Warning, you are entering a minefield. Minesweeper and bullshit detector are mandatory equipment! Good luck.
     
  5. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I'd recommend the book " Self Analysis". It has some brief introduction to
    Scn and Dianetics and is mostly made up of simple self auditing, or perhaps better described as mental exercises which can work quite well.

    You could pick the book up for a few dollars on Ebay, Amazon second hand etc.

    If that works for you ask more. :)

    I too have protested with Anonymous since 2008. I am also a
    scientologist.
     
  6. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Start with Introduction to Scientology Ethics -- the fat book published in late 1980s or early 1990s, not the skinny one that's been around many more years...

    Then Science of Survivial -- also a fat book, very comprehensive textbook.

    Those will give you a really good overview of what scientology is and how it works.

    You can weed out the bullshit as you go along...

    Have fun.:yes:
     
  7. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    The thing is, yes, there are some good bits in Scn, (and LOTS of bad bits), but there are also LOTS of good bits elsewhere too.

    Clearbird's version (up to Clear) is relatively harmless.

    Paul
     
  8. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    I suppose at SOME level, many years ago, scientology started out as a sincere attempt to "lift civilization out of the mud it thinks concieved it". But there was a SOMETHING fighting back, and L. Ron Hubbard decided the way to outflank the opposition was to expand FAST. Tremendous pressure was put on staff to GET THE STATS UP, and of course make a lot of MONEY to make that possible. The tech was revised on an almost daily basis, and those for whom the tech did not work were blamed for their own lack of success.

    In an attempt to stop the "suppressives", scientology started their own covert ops and dirty tricks department. Then they got caught. LRH had to go into hiding, the REAL bad guys expanded their influence in scientology management, and by the time of LRH's death, the whole shebang was taken over.

    If you absolutely MUST go to a church of scientology org (congregation), only take introductory courses. Leave as soon as they start to put pressure on you (to pay more, to spend more time there, to give up your outside activities, or to join staff). Get into the habit of bitching about the cost. After that, or better yet INSTEAD of that, find a freezone (independent) person or group to get involved with.

    RONS Orgs in particular have their own way of looking at the OT levels. If you want to continue past clear, by all means give them a look-over. They are on the web at www.freezone.de .

    Good luck in following this path -- or NOT following this path, whichever you prefer.

    Helena
     
  9. This is NOT OK !!!!

    This is NOT OK !!!! Gold Meritorious Patron

    Study Psychology. You will get the most up-to-date, peer reviewed techniques around, instead of a bunch of crap from a quack written in the 50's while very high on drugs and drunk.
     
  10. johnAnchovie

    johnAnchovie Still raging

    Please forgive my not typing out a completely original reply. I am being really lazy here and simply pasting in a bit that I wrote a few days a go on the 'life After Scientology' Thread. Please read it.

    On the old 'Why We Protest' board they had a wise saying, "Lurk moar".

    I don't want to be rude, but if I showed you a video of people dying from lung cancer due to a lifetime of sucking on Marlboro and you then asked me to go and get you a pack; I might wonder about you.

    Scientology and the manifestly vast library of criticism that is available online should surely provide you with all you need to know. Unless you are just not well in the head. Read on:

    Quote Originally Posted by johnAnchovie

    Re Scientology Tech:

    I remain utterly astounded at the degree that all the scientology tech I experienced over a 22 year full immersion career proved to be useless and in every way pointless for me in this real world.

    Contact assist: Pain tends to naturally reduce over time, try it, bang your thumb let it heal. A few months after finding my way back to reality I was reassembling a drum brake set on my old Ford, I caught a finger in a ratchet mechanism. I made a point of NOT doing a contact or any other kind of assist once said finger was extracted, I observed that the pain dissipated at the same rate that it would with a contact and the healing rate over the next days was identical. (just so as you know I am making a real comparison, before I was transferred to Finance a year before getting out, I was the Saint Hill Motor Pool Officer. I had been demoted to that WONDERFUL post (I loved that work actually, despite the mad and dangerous schedules and a complete lack of any health and safety provisions, it was frankly a dangerous and an illegal working environment! ) a few years previously. I spent a lot of time pulling out gear boxes, replacing timing gear and other dirty, heavy, hard and rewarding vehicle work, and I hurt, bashed and pinched a lot of fingers.

    Tone Scale:
    Well, I found that sitting down with my love, and going through whatever difficulties we may be facing and dealing honestly and openly and allowing ourselves to feel the full range of angers, resentments, fears, joy, deadness, tears of sorrow openly and without restrains ultimately freeing and I think deeply healing. With Scientology tone stuff it was an avoidance of these emotions that was in play, we had to force a fabricated emotion over the real one because that real one was socially unacceptable, indeed frowned upon in the manufactured scientology play world.

    Aberration and bank dramatizations: Again, these things honestly expressed and faced up to with honesty and reality tend to dissipate. I have spent many, many hours with people as they rant and scream or yell and cry and act like babies but tend to come through it cleansed and emboldened. I am not taking about anything like auditing, just working with people having hard time as people have worked with me did and still do. I am not aiming for a perfect state, clear OT or whatever, just a sense of equilibrium, a balance, revivification or a compassion for anyone, whatever it is they 'dramatize'. My niece is bi-polar, we care for her and manage the condition. It is not an 'aberration' or 'dramatization' it is a neurological congenital condition and is dealt with the right kind of medical supervision, patience, care and love for the girl. We try to give her as normal a life as we possibly can. She does as well as can be expected.

    Out 2d: I did a show with a bunch of transgendered people a couple of years ago, what a fuck-ink wonderfully eyeopening experience. blew away whatever last vestiges of 'stick up-the-arse' false scientology morality was left haunting me, what a wonderful bunch of mad people they were. Humbling, refreshing. My gay pals at uni, some of the most honest and emotionally mature men I have ever met. Not to mention the weekend party I attended with my partner for a lesbian friend of hers, they had rented a whole hotel for about 60 women for the weekend. My very attractive partner and I were the only 'straight' couple there. I was the only guy. several shaven headed, tattooed, leather wearing 'ladies' tried to pick up my woman, I kind of didn't want to pick a fight with them, they were a lot tougher than me. Diplomacy and a locked bedroom door worked just fine. What great people, what a great weekend, I made some very wonderful friends there.

    Dynamics? It is just life around us, why break it up artificially? My day involves myself, my woman, the kids, a menagerie of assorted animals. My University, the car, the bank, taxes, local and government services, whatever international causes I might be involved in with Amnesty or global and environmental causes and on. I just live it, enjoy it, get frustrated with it, deal with it and don't analyze it like that.

    Scales and conditions and shit? Why? You deal with stuff intelligently and honestly and efficiently. If I am late with an essay I don't run through a bunch of conditions, I take the points hit and get better organized next time round. Imagine if I tried to apply conditions to my language courses? It would be stupid, I would be adding a whole layer of complexity on top of what I am doing anyway. How daft!

    The Complex:
    Imagine applying scientology tech to an anti-scientology book that did very well indeed for this first time author. No thanks to you 'Dr.' Hubbard. But I suppose I should thank you for giving me all that material. What I would have written though had I never encountered the cult of the fat turd? I know i would have, because I was writing before I joined and stopped for 22 years.

    Study tech: I am just about to graduate a four year university degree. I consciously avoided any study tech whatsoever. I have never learned so much and had such a bloody wonderful time doing it. Critical analysis works and it helps people!

    Communication?
    I think I do alright, don't you?

    Scientology imposes itself on normal life in a parasitic and leech-like fashion. It dirties and distorts the real world and I can quite honestly say that I simply cannot find anything good about it at all.

    So if an ex is not out, then it is either a case of being too scared to trust themselves outside of the ridged confines and control of the cult. I could say they were being cowards, but that would not necessarily be true. I cannot in fact say why it is, it puzzles me still and no amount of explanation from people with tech, Hubbard or Scientology sympathies have made any sense to me to date. Those that have left it behind, to me, seem happier, more liberated and indeed more honest that those who hold onto some bit of tech or the indi or freezone. This is just my opinion, just my experience, that is all. I think Christian evangelicals and Muslim fanatics are weird too. I remain puzzled by Catholics, Unitarians and Anglicans. So I suppose it is just bad ol' anti-theist me?
     
  11. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter


    I'd suggest maybe chatting with Independant and Free Zone Scn'ists.
     
  12. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    As Paul said, see Clearbird. It's the best existing single source & reference for the basic auditing tech of scientology.


    Mark A. Baker
     
  13. doloras

    doloras New Member

    Thank you for all the polite responses. I'm familiar with Clearbird's work, but I thought I emphasised that I'm not really looking for a "Standard Tech" approach, since it clearly doesn't work for everyone all the time. And if I wanted people aggressively attempting to squash my interest in the subject I could get that everywhere else.

    The problem with the Freezoners/Indies, as I see it, is that they're all "preaching to the converted", exit counselling themselves from the cult etc. and not interested in helping people outside that group, to the extent that they use Scn jargon that human beings find impentetrable and off-putting. I suppose I was really asking whether there was an ongoing research project anywhere in putting what kernels of non-bullshit there is in "the tech" into a real liberatory spiritual practice. If not, thanks for your time.
     
  14. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    I don't think Clearbird is exactly "standard tech"...not fully, anyway.

    Non CofS Scientologists are people who feel they got something out of the actual subject and who want to continue their studies away from CofS. Period. That's all it is.

    And, yes, if you want to know if there are on going research projects anywhere in putting what kernels etc etc, then those are the people you'd contact. Because there is and they are.

    Otherwise, I have to kinda call bullshit here. If you're saying you want to find people who are seeing what parts of Scn might work, then we've told you whom to contact.
    Many FZers and Indies are not what I call "tech purists", some are. So yeah, thing wih the kernels- they are hip to that.
     
  15. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    Hmmm, I'm sure it has been attempted but there is a major consideration, that being that anyone who has realised what a piece of work Hubbard is/was, whether or not there were some kernals of appliable truth to be found (I think few and far between and hardly origional), would hardly be willing to expose/re-expose themselves to all the massive other bull-crap for the pitifully few gems, if they even exist.

    Consider it like, um, you are starving to death, and you see a pile of cow-poo with some corn in it, are you hungry enough to dig through the shit for a meagre meal, or will you use your strength to walk further down the road in hopes of finding a proper meal, or the cornfield.

    My opinion is that the 'tech' is an illusion to begin with, designed for the pure purpose of addling and confusing a human out of their hard earned shekles while delivering nothing of value that couldn't be found with a bit of honest meditation and introspection.

    And oh, welcome too! :welcome:
     
  16. doloras

    doloras New Member

    Thank you, Claire. I don't see why you have to "call bullshit" - it really was an honest request without any hidden agenda. I've heard your name mentioned as someone who knows what they're talking about in this area so I'll trust your judgement and do more research.

    Clearbird certainly advertises itself as Standard Tech.
     
  17. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    In particular, Clearbird's work goes well beyond 'standard tech'.


    Mark A. Baker
     
  18. Lone Star

    Lone Star Crusader

  19. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Gold Meritorious Patron

    Oops. I am on the wrong thread. Later.
     
  20. Claire Swazey

    Claire Swazey Spokeshole, fence sitter

    Well, the problem I have with it, is that the question was answered. If a person wants to find people who are isolating (or trying to, rightly or wrongly) parts of Scn or Dn to see if they can salvage it- then those are the ones.

    Or maybe the dealio here is a thought that FZers and Indies are all tech purists? Thing is, some are, some aren't. There're some people in the non CofS Scn scene who don't hesitate to extrapolate, pick and choose, create their own stuff, ditch some stuff Hubbard said, and keep other stuff.

    Generally, those people are to be found in the FZ or indie milieus. There ARE some who do not use any "Scn" branding and, thus, do not call themselves FZers or Indies. But, again, many FZers and Indies are anything but hidebound and traditional.

    And, Ogs, I don't care if anyone thinks it's crap or whatever. The issue was- could a person, in this case Deloras, locate people who, for whatever reason, think they can do this ol' cherrypicking thang.
     

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