A theory of Hubbard, Dianetics and Scientology.

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Kha Khan, Aug 14, 2009.

View Users: View Users
  1. Kha Khan

    Kha Khan Patron Meritorious

    I want to share a theory I've contemplated for awhile. I think the following may be true; I haven't made up my mind.

    I think that Hubbard may have been well-intentioned when he wrote Dianetics and started the first Dianetics organization. But I think three or four things happened.

    First, I think the success of the book Dianetics surprised even Hubbard. It really was a fad, and quite popular for awhile. It was taken seriously, and he got some of the respect and adoration that he so desperately needed and believed he deserved. But it was a one shot. Lightening in a bottle. Not unlike those one hit wonder singers or rock groups who spend the rest of their lives singing the same song, their one hit, at state fairs. I would love to know what the sales figures for Science of Survival were compared to Dianetics. Perhaps with Dianetics Hubbard avoided being a never was, but thereafter he was certainly on the road to being a has been.

    Secondly, I think when Hubbard lost control of the first Dianetics organization (was it the Wichita Foundation?) it really affected him, and really fed into his paranoia. (Just because one person was maybe out to get you doesn't mean that everyone else in the universe is out to get you for the rest of your life.) Never again would he lose control of an organization. Never again would he lose control of his writings, his intellectual property, or the "tech."

    Thirdly, and most importantly, I've long believed that he developed (with good reason) a Nietzschean disdain for how pathetically weak his followers were. What disgusting sheep they were. People were "recalling" the act of conception... from the perspective of the sperm or egg? Really? WTF? Dear Friedrich, isn't that someone who is just begging, just begging, to be taken advantage of? To be used, exploited, fleeced and then discarded? Hmmmm, if I can convince them that they are "recalling" the act of conception from the perspective of the sperm or egg, maybe I can convince them that they are infested with... the spirits of invisible space aliens... who were blown up with atomic bombs.... by an evil Lord Xenu. Yeah, that's the ticket. Let's make a game of it. The game being, let's see how much unadulterated bullshit and abuse I can convince people to swallow.

    The only crime for a con man (or for some who believe they are intellectually superior) is to fail to take advantage of a mark.

    Fourth, and this is related to the third, Hubbard's true nature could not be denied. Pure self-actualization.

    In the end, it is like the story of the Scorpion and the Frog. The story is about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion reassures him that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown as well. The frog then agrees; nevertheless, in mid-river, the scorpion stings him, dooming the two of them. When asked why, the scorpion explains, "Hey, you knew I was a scorpion, what did you expect?"

    What amazes me is how many times people were stung by the scorpion, but kept coming back for more. And, judging from many posts by Ex (lol) Scientologists here, still are.

    I'm curious. Did anyone ever think that if Hubbard hadn't exploited, used and abused you, you would have had to find someone else to do the job?

    Has anyone exhibited symptoms of submissiveness or masochism in other aspects of their lives?
  2. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    I did not do that. Being submissive to Hubbard led me to react opposite to what you suggest and to decide never to be submissive to another person.
  3. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Elizabeth NJ was the first, Wichita KS, the second, Pheonix AZ, Then off to Cuba, or was Cuba after Wichita....then Saint hill? Saint Hill is really the first place that "stuck".

    Like all great men who try something bold, there are failures mixed in the successes.

    I believe Hubbards intentions were always good. Sometimes the amount of time and effort needed to accomplish what he envisioned, were beyond him.

    And its ours now to do with as we will.

    No, I am no machochist. Perhaps even the opposite at times, and I seldom give in to authority with out a tussle. Nor do I feel in anyway exploited or abused by Hubbard or his product. Individual people associated with it? Yes at times...

    The people I have talked to that knew Hubbard personally and were in close proximity to him for years, all paint a different picture of a man than is the common characterization of Hubbard in critical circles....A man of great dreams, hard work, good intention, and also personal flaws that carry forward in their effect in scientology.

    It is easier to deconstruct the "intentions" of a dead man, than to confront the mix of genius and failure that is scientology. How did something so good, (so good that it has held many of our attentions for so many years) also hold us to its flaws?
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2009
  4. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Hubbard had good and bad intentions at the same time.

    He had them from Day One. (read Dianetics in Limbo and you'll see what I mean)
  5. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

  6. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    "There was a difference between the ideals inherent in the Dianetic hypothesis and the actions of the Foundation in its ostensible efforts to carry out those ideals. The ideals... as I saw them, included non-authoritarianism and flexibility of approach... The ideals continued to be given lip service, but I could see a definite disparity between ideals and actualities."

    Dr. J.A. Winter, who wrote the Introduction for 'DMSMH', from his 1951 book, 'A Doctor's Report on Dianetics'.

    From a 1986 Interview with early (1950) Dianeticist, Richard DeMille:


    Chapter 5 from 'Bare-Faced Messiah':

  7. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    That pretty much sums up the scientology conundrum.
  8. lkwdblds

    lkwdblds Crusader

    Very good post, one comment

    Alex, very fine post, good points, fine summary. I just highlighted two paragraphs I wanted to comment on.

    When you say sometimes the amount of time and effort needed to accomplish what he enviosioned, were beyond him. Things ended up working out that way but there were extenuating circumstances.

    He originally felt the business tech in the USA was good, those with degrees from college in business or accounting knew their stuff. He then had bad experiences with professional business men and accountants when he brought them in to work in his Orgs. AS A RESULT, INSTEAD OF WORKING ON THE TECH WHICH HE HAD PLANNED TO WORK ON, HE HAD TO TAKE A SIDE PATH AND DEVELOP HIS OWN TECH ON RUNING AN ORGANIZATION. I think this is how things became too much for him to handle although he made a valiant effort to develop all these other techs such as management, promotion, ethics, debugging and data evaluation study tech etc..

    MAYBE THAT IS WHY HE DEVELOPED DISDAIN FOR HIS FOLLOWERS as Kha Khan asserts . In his mind, the followers could not get anything right on their own and he had to be derailed from the research he really wanted to do and develop these other techs.

    One of the techs that he did not master was how to delegate authority and responsibilty to other people. He claims to have mastered that tech but in practice he did not have a handle on it. Just look at it, he virtually redeveloped every single tech extant on Earth. He felt nothing on Earth, the medical, the government, movie making, advertising, bookkeeping, whatever, was all no good. You take something like bookkeeping and accounting. He did not like the double entry form of accounting and felt it was suppressive. He could have easily delegated the task of developing an accounting system to others, yet he spent his own time developing a single entry system. I THINK HIS REFUSAL TO SHARE THE LIMELIGHT WITH OTHERS PLAYED HEAVILY IN HIS INABLITIY TO SUCCESSFULLY DELEGATE.

    It all ties together, his high abilities to reasearch, reformat and repackage data, his initial well intendedness, his early attempts to delegate using Earth technologies, his inborn refusal to share the spotlight with others, his self imposed necessity of pulling off his research in the areas he loved to develop technologies to replace the false technologies of Earth and then the disdain he developed for his followers as a result of the above chain of events.

    Your closing paragraph is strong and makes a good point.
  9. As it is easier to fabricate a glorious myth around a dead con man as we have seen the cult do in the case of Hubbard. Hubbard never did anything which was not self-servicing, he was a con man who built a cult to service him. Lets not revise history to make it out to be more that it is.
  10. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    If what Pilot says is true, he did reach a high state of awareness around 1952-54 and later fell away from it .

    I think some of the Tech from that halcyon period may have been channelled, but his ability to access similar off-planet data went into decline later on as he succumbed to the temptations (power, wealth etc.) the success of Scn brought him.
  11. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I don't think he tapped anything "off-planet". I do think that he was a lot more flexible in his thinking (at least in print) than later in his life. His unwillingness to be scientific in his approach (or perhaps his lack of understanding of what the scientific approach was) means that most of what he wrote has to be taken with a grain (or a shaker) of salt.

    The complexity of his approach grew over time. Likely, this was an income generating scheme (keep the marks buying), but also may have been indicative of declining access to the SIMPLICITY of the original understanding.

    I trust the Pilot more than I trust Ron, but both are still talking the language of religion when the language of science is more appropriate.
  12. Here is Hubbard in a lecture from 1952, where he was already implanting false memories into his victims.


    he's didn't become a flawed man after he acquired power and wealth. He lusted for power and wealth because he was a flawed man to begin with. Hubbard was no where close to a high state of awareness, he was a con man who ran learned hypnosis and figured out how he could use it to make his victims serve him.
  13. RogerB

    RogerB Crusader


    Add London to the saga of "lost centers." The people he trusted as organizational officers; actually corporate officers with executive powers, are said to have ripped him off before he went to St. Hill. According to Dennis Stephens, in 1960-1, the execs extorted money from Hubbard to give title of the HASI corporation back to him.

  14. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Yes, I think his "flaw" could be stated as having such a degree of self confidence that he neglected to follow his own advice.

    Casewise, organizationally, and in interacting with others.

    That confidence though may be what sustained him in his work, the price the neglect of self and knowledge gained.

    I was just reading a second hand account of his final years related by the husband of one of his caretakers, that said he was still taking himself into session in his last years, still c/s ing those around him, still very active, interested and bright.

    I think it got bigger than him, and yes his flaws didnt facilitate the factors needed to handle it.
  15. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    Actually I would take issue that Hubbard didnt approach things scientifically.


    Hubbard hypothecised things, then experientially gathered data to support it. (Or not).

    Yes, he did it without peer review, double blinding and all the accoutrama of the currently academically acceptable fashion.

    More like Tesla, than Bell labs....

    But his work in mental hospitals, (which would not be allowed these days), and his constant cycle of theory, trials, piloting and release are consistent with scientific method.

    Old timers on this board give examples of being research auditors at Saint Hill, taking the days new theories into session, reporting back and then implementing the resulting changes to test for efficacy.

    More modern scientologists on board here, tell of piloting rundowns.

    Theory, experiment, refinement, product. Consistent with scientific method.

    Scientific method and best practices in modern science are not the same thing. One is the fundemental principle, the other the refined practice.
  16. uniquemand

    uniquemand Unbeliever

    I almost got trite about this. While it is true that Ron amalgamated a pretty big empire during his lifetime, he did spend a huge amount of time at sea, or in a few different "orgs", and writing. Many of us, who are critics of the man and the subject, are quick to point out that he was a power-monger, or that his "research" was extremely flawed. If he was only in it for the money and power, though, he could have completely cut and run in the early 70's (or earlier) and been a very rich man, and done whatever he wanted for the rest of his life. It seems that what he wanted, though, was to continue to work on his "tech". He might have been a delusional narcissist, but he seems to have been genuinely interested. Nobody spends most of their life working on something strictly as a con. Certainly, he was also a con-man! This is part of what made him so interesting, though, that he seems to have been "legit" in his actual interest in the subject.
  17. It was more about the need to be worshiped than it was about the money. The man went as far as creating a navy of his most loyal slaves to serve him and set out to sea. It was all about "Ron" and if you don't think so, just ask those unfortunate enough to pay the price for not giving "Ron" full credit for everything which was accomplished, or those who made the misfortune of pointing out one of "Ron's" flaws or shortcomings. How can anyone even pretend the creation of the Sea Org was an act of a well intentioned individual
  18. alex

    alex Gold Meritorious Patron

    One need not pretend.

    But then it would be pretense to say that it is now a success rather than a hinderance.
  19. bluewiggirl

    bluewiggirl Patron Meritorious

    It has always seemed to me that Hubbard starts off as an incompetent bastard and slowly degenerates into a tragic figure wrapped up so tightly within his own mythology that he can't escape. I very much believe the claim that Hubbard started a religion on a bet, but that doesn't mean he went out of his way to create a mean or crazy religion. Dianetics from what I can tell is a relatively well-intentioned attempt to create a religion that people would buy. At some point, I believe Hubbard started buying his own press, got lost in a reality that he had created and somewhat, dare I say it, mad with power. By the time OT III was written he was already in a really bad way.

    I don't know how that theory would sit with practicing freezoners, but based on the materials available to us it seems to fit pretty well.
  20. everfree

    everfree Patron Meritorious

    Nothing tragic about Hubbard, only the lives of others that he consumed.

    I think that rather than start a religion, he wanted to be taken seriously as a scientist instead of a mere peddler of tales.

    IIRC, Arthur C. Clark did some stuff re geosyncrous sattelite orbits. Asimov wrote science text books. His friend Parsons in addition to his Crowley ties was a big name in rocketry. Hubbard later said that he also knew some physicists. Who knows to what degree that is true - I don't recall him naming any - but there was definitely a scientific air to some of the circles he travelled in. I think he wanted to prove himself their superior.

    Dianetics he characterized as the "modern science of mental health" then followed it up with "science of survival".

    Even Scientology was first heralded as the "science of certainty". He seems to have later assumed the guise of religion as an expedient fall back position, and seeing the many benefits it provided stuck with it.

    The whole religious angle seems to have started with a wink and a nod, and doesn't appear to me to be a main goal until much later.

Share This Page