Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Truth&Honesty, Feb 11, 2010.

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  1. Truth&Honesty

    Truth&Honesty Patron with Honors


    For those of you who don't know......America Magazine is one of the oldest and most respected Catholic magazines, read by the Church hierarchy, lay Catholics, and all who value the Catholic opinion.

    Buckle up! Torpedos are being launched (figuratively)! Mainstream religion is now starting to recognize how evil the cult really is.

    I guess launching a lawsuit against nuns in Italy wasn't the smartest move the demented dwarf has made lately....but then again, he is a high school dropout, isn't he..... :D

    This is a great article and well worth the read. It is an excellent summary of all of the problems the cult has experienced lately. As I read it, I thought this would be a good article to send to our congress representatives along with a recommendation that the cult's tax exempt status be removed.



    Scientology at the Dock AUTHOR: JOHN COLEMAN, S.J.
    Posted on February 11, 2010 by dialogueireland
    Scientology at the Dock

    POSTED AT: 2010-02-09 10:31:00.0

    His article on Scientology: Scientology at the Dock

    The last several years have been exceedingly unkind to Scientology. In 2007 the Belgian State Prosecution Office announced that it thought the organization should be prosecuted for crime. In late October, 2009, a French court found Scientology, France guilty of severe fraud in “cheating” vulnerable members of their meager life savings. The Court fined Scientology 600,000 euros and placed Alan Rosenberg, the head of Scientology, France on a two-year suspended sentence. Scientology claims religious persecution in the case and pledged to appeal, if necessary to the European Court of Human Rights. Scientology, following its doctrine of “fair game” has been notoriously litigious over the years. “Fair game” got so defined, in the words of L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology: “Those who seek to damage the church may be deprived of property or impaired by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.”

    Recent allegations about Scientology rely less on the organization’s belief system, which represents a strange amalgam of pseudo-psychology; a Gnostic claim to reach a stage above the possibility of human sin or frailty; reliance on a pseudo-scientific machine that is supposed to detect human lies or negative blockages and, a long process of auditing to remove blockages toward achieving the desired stage of being “clear.” The process can cost anywhere from $25,000 to the neighborhood of $1 million. The recent attacks on Scientology focus mainly on its behaviors, many of which are distasteful but may be legal; some of which are, arguably, criminal.

    The St. Petersberg Times published a series of articles in 2009, recounting some of the alleged internal practices of Scientology: a internal culture of systematic physical violence; its dis-connection policy (isolating Scientology recruits from family or outside influences); an “ecclesiastical justice” system that involves public confessions, isolation, forced imprisonments; claims that the organization coerces abortions among the women members of its elite Sea Org., a near monastic sub- set of volunteer workers. The Times articles, relying on testimony of defectors, recount horror stories of physical abuse, families being ripped apart, forced isolation. One famous case of forced isolation, Lisa McPherson, led to her death in mysterious circumstances, after 17 days of isolation.

    What is not entirely clear, even to sociologists of religion who have studied the group, such as David Bromley from Virginia Commonwealth University, is how much of the behaviors of Scientology recruits are voluntary or coercive, therapeutic or punitive. A Times editorial printed Nov. 6, 2009 asked: “Why are government authorities looking the other way? The Internal Revenue Service has ample reason to reconsider the decision to grant Scientology exempt status as a religion. Law enforcement ought to investigate whether the church’s restraint on members’ free movement crossed a legal line.”

    In the past, however, and allegedly more recently, evidence exists of actual criminal behavior by high-placed Scientology operatives. In 1979, Mary Sue Hubbard (wife of the founder) and ten other Scientologists were convicted in U.S. Federal Court for conspiring to steal government documents (related to Scientology) and obstructing justice. In December 2009, Rex Fowler, a Scientologist minister, murdered his business partner in Denver who had threatened to expose Fowler’s illegal donations to Scientology. On November 16, 2009, Senator Nick Xenophon, a member of the Australian upper house, entered a parliamentary motion asking for a criminal investigation of Scientology in Australia.

    Xenophon’s intervention (which prompted the Australian Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd to comment to the press that the charges were grave and that many Australians had serious questions about Scientology) introduced evidence from former Scientology members containing allegations of false imprisonment, coerced abortions, embezzlement of church funds, destroying evidence about suspicious deaths, cover-ups of child sexual abuse and murder. A young Australian, Edward Mc Bride, who had gone through a large amount of borrowed money to pay for his Scientology auditing, committed suicide. The day before his suicide (there are many suicides among Scientologists), he was harassed by Scientology members. The Scientology file on him was removed from Australia and the government unable to access it. Scientology, typically, responds to its critics by claiming religious persecution. Xenophon responded by calling Scientology a “criminal organization which hides behind its religious beliefs.” “Ultimately, this is not about religious freedom. In Australia, there are no limits on what you can believe. But there are limits on how you can behave. It is called the law and no one is above it.”

    In Italy, in the late fall of 2009 the Daughters of Saint Paul published a book by fourteen ex-Scientologists, The Courage to Speak Out. They had earlier published a book by Maria Pia Gardini, an ex-Scientologist. Scientology tried to block the publication and is now suing Gardini for libel. Clearly, Scientology’s record on freedom of speech is quite spotty. When You Tube put on the web an embarrassing video of Tom Cruise making exaggerated claims about Scientology’s superiority, Scientology, claiming a copyright infringement, forced its removal. This attempt at censorship of free speech evoked a new response to the organization by computer nerds and an internet network called Anonymous. Throughout 2008 and 2009, Anonymous protested against Scientology’s scorn for free speech, its policy of dis-connection, its financial exploitation of the vulnerable. Anonymous may well, itself, have crossed a legal line in hacking into Scientology sites on the internet or taking them down. The group also organized many protests in front of Scientology offices all over the world. Scientology, which is notorious for using the confession material of its members to blackmail or disgrace them if they defect, set up a web site, Anonymous Facts, which put on the web names and personal information of several supposed Anonymous members. Eventually, You Tube suspended that Scientology account for its dubious behaviors of spreading such personal defamation.

    What to make of all of these allegations? Scientology tends to defend against its detractors (especially defectors) by reminding the public of the sour grapes of disgruntled former employees and devotees. There is some truth to that rejoinder but simply too many allegations, from a multiple number of former Scientology members (many of whom held high posts in the organization), recounting similar stories of forced abortions for female Sea Org members, doctoring or destroying of internal documents etc. Clarity should be maintained between genuine religious freedom to believe what one wants and allegations of criminal or legally unacceptable behaviors. For me, religious liberty implies complete freedom of exit from religion. Scientology makes it difficult for disgruntled former members to leave, except on its own long-drawn out terms involving confessions that the member is harmful to the church and promises not to sue Scientology. Just leaving on one’s own is punished by being hounded by private investigators. I suspect with so much smoke, somewhere there must be a real fire. While the organization hates the term, it is a totalitarian “cult.” It just may also be criminal.

    John Coleman, S.J.
  2. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    Very interesting. I note that magazine, newspaper and TV reporters have gotten to a remarkable point in their reportings. They are hitting nails right on the head these days and not pulling punches. The fear is gone from the news-reporting world.

    And now the little cult has nicely managed to get the Catholic Church on its arse, more each week it appears.

    This should prove interesting as times rolls on.
  3. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

  4. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    Poor Tommy D - his PR dreams are regularly being turned into nightmares by Catholics now. :hysterical:

    Nice accurate reporting tho'. :yes:
  5. DavidM

    DavidM Patron with Honors

    Very good to see
  6. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    :omg:This is an excellent article by a well known and influencial Catholic. Comments at the site are needed.

    Better to have posters go visit the site instead of copying the article, which is a copyright issue .

    The more hits the article gets at the site, the more they will report more on this issue.

    Readers, please consider visiting the site and posting a comment/. The registration is simple.

  7. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    It is an excellent article. It is good to see a writer from the Jesuits taking notice.
  8. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Thanks for that. It looks like the cult has lost all contact with reality now. All their ills are of their own making.
  9. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    Yes, and you're welcome. :)
  10. TalleyWhacker

    TalleyWhacker Patron with Honors

    It's a very well written article.
    Me thinks Slappy will regret pushing the sisters around.
  11. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    Ja ja. Pushing Sisters around make for mighty heap footbullet.
  12. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Comment by David Griffiths:

    . Frankly I would think the Catholic Church had enough experience of media attacks, just now there are allegations of sexual abuse in Germany, and of course we just had Ireland.
    Jesus said, "do not criticise the mote in your brother's eye when you ignore the log in your own". And certainly one might add, "don't base your views on newspaper reports". In fact I join with Jesus in hoping people can see the good in others rather than a desire to see them as evil.
    I support religious discussion but it should be careful and well mannered.
    For many years I worked with a Jesuit priest, who had taught at Harvard and Oxford, in an interfaith group that crossed the divide between theological colleges and emerging religions.
    Scientology has exposed attackers against it including a psychiatrist who killed with the brainwashing deep sedation treatment, a leader of the anticult movement who was a pedophile, and just today the group annonymous which has been waging a hate campaign using the internet:
    "This week, anti-Scientology group Anonymous blocked access to some key Australian government websites, including the parliament site and the website of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd.It was in protest at plans to block access to a range of sites, including those featuring gay pornography."
    Needless to say although I am no longer officially involved in public affairs for the Church of Scientology, we do believe that the internet should not harbor hate groups.

    Posted By David Griffiths | 2010-02-11 07:05:24.0

    His 1998 'Scientologist Online' spam page: (since removed; with some comments by David Gerard)

    :Hello, my name is David R. Griffiths, and here is a little bit about
    : I am 42 years old and have been interested in Dianetics and
    :Scientology since 1974. My main interests in life in general are music
    :(serious and jazz); science, including astronomy and; politics, including
    :archaeology. I was also active for many years in increasing the human
    :rights of psychiatric patients in Victoria and Tasmania (where I was born).

    His success in Scientology? This is it in its entirety:

    : Since being in Scientology I have increased understanding of myself
    :and others. Ultimately this is immortality.

    Favourite quote (asterisks for italics):

    : What is *true* is what is true for *you*.
    :L. Ron Hubbard

    The single 'various groups I support' is CCHR.

    The favorite (not 'favourite') links are to,,,,, and Freedom Magazine.

    His book suggestion is 'Advanced Procedures And Axioms' by LRH. Does this
    strike you as a good beginner's book?

  13. Telepathetic

    Telepathetic Gold Meritorious Patron

    He obviously never went to Catholic school! You don't f...I mean mess around with nuns!:dieslaughing::dieslaughing:

    Great article, thanks.

  14. sandygirl

    sandygirl Silver Meritorious Patron

    I would like to see someone more proficient in using the computer than I (Zinj?) to find the reference where LRH refers to Jesus as having a "penchant" for little boys and send it over to the magazine. I'm sure the nuns and author would find that little nugget of Scio "scripture" fascinating since the "church" loves to present itself as respecting all other religions.
  15. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    That'd be from the disputed early 'OTVIII', so, I wouldn't bother. It's quite possibly a fake.

    However, Ron had plenty of disparaging things to say about Jesus and Christianity in general and the Roman Catholic Church in particular. I'd assume the author already knows most of them.

    Among other things, OTII reveals that Jesus is an implant and there's always the 'The man on the cross; there is no Christ'.

    Still, he seems to be mostly addressing the *activities* of the 'Church' of Scientology and that's a stand alone.

  16. Cadetification

    Cadetification Patron with Honors

    Honestly, I don't like the Catholic Church any better than Scientology. Maybe they'll destroy eachother...
  17. Cadetification

    Cadetification Patron with Honors

    That would be freakin' hillarious!!!
  18. namaste

    namaste Silver Meritorious Patron

    Does this mean that OSA won't be getting Presidents' Day off?
  19. AnonyMary

    AnonyMary Formerly Fooled - Finally Free

    LRH audio clips

    Hubbard says There is no Christ

    Hubbard On Roman Catholicism
    Hubbard on God

    Hubbard on Yahweh (Yahweh is the personal name of God in the Hebrew Bible):

    "Men, then ... a whole lot of people will say carelessly 'Well, God is everywhere', remember that this was an idea which was introduced rather latterly in Christian religion. The God of which they speak, of whom they speak continually, eh Yahweh, lord knows how it's produ.. pronounced, because it is so secret, that nobody is really is supposed to be able to pronounce it, so they ommitted all of the vowels in the word, and they spell it only with it's consonants. So lord knows how this word is to be pronounced, but the more agreed upon pronunciation amongst scholars so they can talk about it is Yahweh. And this is the Christian God. But he lives in a trunk with a leopard skin. That's right, that's the full story of it."

    Hubbard Audio Collection Hubbard on many subjects

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