Another way to view Scientology

Discussion in 'Leaving Scientology' started by SHUKex, Jun 12, 2018.

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  1. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    OK.

    I knew there was a massive ego involved in it all.
     
  2. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Oh no he is not alone to hide money form the internal revenue service reach...
    BUT....

    Is one of the very few who fooled people in teaching him very high standard of ethics and integrity, as well as 3rd dynamic ethical standards while being so dishonnest, fraudulent, criminal and doing the very oppsite of what he taught and expected form others..(he punished if they didn't met his standards)..Not to mentionned he wanted to be worshipped as a the lord Metteya..the western reincarnated buddha)....OMG! :oops: (Poor being)

    Thus, it speaks , about another fact : Genuineness and honnesty. (total lack of it)

    Thus, one can ask: Oh well, what's next in terms of lies and fraudulent scam????

    p.s. As for best way to make money..I would too say there's easier and HONNEST way to make money WITH people (sharing) instead of OUT of people (exploiting)
    One of this way coudl be writting sci-fi books , selling them, instead of trying to make those sci-fi stories into spiritual grades to reach that will be sold them as the secret truths of the universe and sold to them for hundred of thousands of dollars ...

    This again speaks for the thirst of money...(and power)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  3. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    RE Is one of the very few who fooled people in teaching him very high standard of ethics and integrity, as well as 3rd dynamic ethical standards while being so dishonest, fraudulent, criminal and doing the very opposite of what he thought..

    Good point.

    Of course there are right ways to make money. I just meant if it was someone's intention to rip people off, you'd think there's an easier way than doing tons of lectures and HCOB's.
     
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  4. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    It all happened in the UK also. They dunked people in the contaminated Saint Hill pond with all that funky swan and duck poop.

    Watch Vivien talk about her Saint Hill experience:

     
  5. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    But if your true most deeply personal goal is to dominate people then money becomes a side benefit and all the revisionist Theosophical blah blah is bait and Hubbard cloning. For exes to promote the residuals is like former communists disagreeing with the politburo but appreciating that the gulags instilled them with a useful work ethic.
     
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  6. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Yes I will look at that. But I was aware of what the kids went through, including the hassles they had to contend with at school for the kids that went to Chequermead and Sackville. And yes the 'lake' I referred to for the dunkings was probably not the cleanest in the world!! I was so glad I was not in the SO. Well, it was a choice of course. It didn't seem right for me. Re my friends who joined - they were making a committment to giving the best help they could.

    Could someone please tell me how I can change my picture? This Xenu one appeared! Thank you. Appreciated.
     
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  7. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Actually, I'd like to point the fact that this chat with you about Ron and $cientology is very positive, fruitful and open to criticism which is rarely seen here with true believers. This is very much appreciated (and welcome for my part). :cool:

    One very basic thing I've learned in my life while persuing my search for truth, freedom and spiritual enlightement is this:

    Keeping away of dishonnest pseudo-masters ego-driven in search of praise and admiration.

    A true spiritual enlightener will at least have succeded in
    taming his own ego (no need for praise and to be worshipped)
    displaying true compassion and human suffering roots understanding
    thus will display humbleness in his daily behavior and needs.. will only look to meet his basic needs...(no mony piling)

    Only then, you may have a person who may turn on the lights on your path..then it's up to you to find your truth topward the light...

    My opinion, based on my findings is
    LRH
    wanted to be the light and the path....
    but only succeded to walk into the darkness on a wrong path...the ego driven path of his church of status and power.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
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  8. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    In the Sea Org at the time, I didn't understand all of Hubbard's rational for putting out "The Way to Happiness" but my interpretation was that it was a PR move to soften the public's bad opinion following the 1977 FBI raids and court cases and to serve as the camel's nose to get inside the tents of public schools and other organizations. I never looked upon it as a purely altruistic effort without any political motivations. In retrospect I was pretty close to the mark but my point is that Scientologists are fully aware that it is part of the overall PR safepointing program. If they took it seriously then Sea Org members would have much better cared for teeth.
     
  9. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Yes I understand. If we view something as being completely bad and of no value or benefit to self or anyone involved and only evolved as a totally connived rip off from a power hungry individual, then anything said in its favour is unacceptable.
     
  10. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Hi Blueboy ;)

    Your impression was quite good since it has been reported as a pr thing by a veteran..actually I don't recall who told that...but perhaps some folks recall it. (there is a foundation attached to it..same as many huge corps do in these days...a concept + a foundation to build a social humanitarian \ philantropic image in order to build recognition into the communities)

    Hum..wasn't it intented for underdeveloped regions like in Africa ???

    Isn't it the height of cynicism, for one to promote the importance of teeth brushing, personnal hygiene and so on, while one deny access to toothpaste, bodysoap and clothes washing services to his devoted slaves in order to keep them in a lack of basic dignity while evolving in a tight social environement.????

    Me think it really is the height of cynicism and cruelty!
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  11. SHUKex

    SHUKex Patron

    Thank you.

    I have come to the same conclusions as you.

    An aside. Personally, I have seen many people in the world still manage to have good intentions and do a good job even with their ego blazing. It is possible, of course, depending on how much ego is in control. It's really hard to be ruled by ego and obtain a worthwhile result.

    But the greatest achievements in helping others can be made, as you say, when one moves beyond ego and any desire for praise or to be liked, or a need to be right. And within the connection that creates, evolves a deep caring for all people and all things. And perhaps a controversial view of understanding that people are doing the best they can with the data they have at hand. It is an unconditional loving view, where we see their pain and instead of judging, we know that many circumstances have brought the person to that place. That takes into account 'past lives,' conditioning, belief systems, culture, karma balancing and what they have chosen to learn.

    As in my original post, I see a higher picture to the whole episode of Scientology. We also see clearly that within the sphere of Scio, that egos were involved, many mistakes were made and it went off the rails in many areas. We can only hope that some learning can be gained from all that too.
     
  12. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    It's a sound and proven strategy. We are so awash in this stuff that it has become a fourth branch of government. We can't be surprised that they do this but you would think that people should know better. Scientology was a bit advanced in their adoption of this strategy in relation to many groups today but this was a well established communist tactic and he was fond of studying other totalitarian strategies.

    It just goes to show that one person's idea of freedom and altruism is often another person's slavery.

    Muslims have CAIR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_on_American–Islamic_Relations

    The IRA has Sinn Fein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinn_Féin

    Front Groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_organization

    Tax Deductible Charitable Organizations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/501(c)(3)_organization

    EDIT: One thing that was not obvious to me as a Sea Org member was how The Way to Happiness was set up as an exclusive royalty revenue stream for Hubbard. The booklets are obviously cheaply made and Scientologists are heavily regged to buy/donate them only to be handed out like pamphlets. But Scientologists by definition don't seem to have a very good sense of how money works, especially Sea Org members.

    I don't think even the JWs use the Watchtower just to send usurious royalties to one person.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  13. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    At one time he qualified.

    But I imagine all of his Certs have since been canceled. ;)

    And just to be clear, despite my picture, I never held any Squirrel Certs of any kind!
     
  14. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Actually most exes admit they were ''wining'' from basic courses and stuff aside the bridge and some processes.
    This is the bait to catch the fish.

    Otherwise, if there wasn,t anything we found that was either funny or helped us in any way, we wouldn't believe there was something hot on the bridge ...
    If we persist in denying it, we make a huge mistake in not trying to understand what are the baits and the stuff that entrap people into $cientology.

    But ultimately, I am with you that nothing is entirely pure evil neither pure good...for example most of exe who had been deeply harmed in many ways, and still suffer the consequences, decide to learn from it...thus it makes them less vulnerable to exploitation, lies, scams and they learn to rely on themselve to find their own truth and conduct their own life. They become free thinkers and it is rewarding..They try to get something good out of their suffering and thus makes use of this painful experience a life lesson making them grow. I am among them. But it's only when one is out of such a system (In $cn we are forbidden and punished to think our own thoughts and to use our critical mind) that he\she can really measures its true benefits.

    What did I really learned from it ???? (takes years to answer)
    ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018
  15. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    It was the treatment of the SO babies and children (definitely at SH and I assume elsewhere also, because they were all following HUBBARD policy) that truly shocked, disgusted and devastated me ... there was no excuse for it at all and that alone is enough for me to forever condemn hubbard, scientology and cults in general.

    Everything in the cult has two faces but I saw the reality and have no urge to try and paper over the truth using PR tek and airy fairy 'positive thinking' about the experience in general.

    Hubbard was a greedy, manipulative nutter and anyone that tries to defend him is either as blind as a bat, has an agenda or is trying to justify something in his own past.
     
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  16. phenomanon

    phenomanon Canyon

    Took me about 24 hours to decide to resign.
     
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  17. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/miller/interviews/mayo.htm
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2018
  18. TheOriginalBigBlue

    TheOriginalBigBlue Gold Meritorious Patron

    Remember Laurel Sullivan’s name? She’s the real deal.

    http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/nytimes/scientology-chief-got-millions-071184.html

    (snipped)

    Laurel Sullivan, 34 years old, left the organization in 1981 after serving 15 years as a senior official, the last eight as Mr. Hubbard's public relations adviser. She said in an interview that from 1972 to 1981 she was in charge of a secret operation to transfer church assets to Mr. Hubbard through a ''corporate shell,'' the Religious Research Foundation, incorporated in Liberia. She said the foundation's accounts were in Luxembourg and Liechtenstein.

    When she left Scientology in 1981, Mrs. Sullivan said, the foundation's assets were $200 million to $300 million, although at one point in the 1970's they totaled $330 million.
    Retroactive Billings

    Mrs. Sullivan, who earned $34 a week as a senior church staff member, asserted that to make it appear that money was being transferred from the foundation to Mr. Hubbard legally, she and other Scientologists had created fraudulent and retroactive billings. Mrs. Sullivan, a Canadian, is trying to obtain residency status in the United States and is seeking immunity from prosecution for ''any of her activities in behalf of'' Mr. Hubbard.

    ''It was fraud,'' she asserted, ''an out-and-out ripping off of funds that were supposed to go to the church.''
    Mrs. Sullivan said that shortly before she left the organization she helped develop a plan by which Mr. Hubbard was to be paid $85 million by a new corporation, Religious Technology Center, in exchange for the ''Dianetics'' trademark and copyrights to some of his books. She said this money was to include $35 million to build a suitable mausoleum for Mr. Hubbard.

    Kima Douglas, Mr. Hubbard's personal medical officer until she left Scientology in 1980, testified at the trial here that she had helped establish ''14 or 15'' corporations, including the Religius Research Foundation, and had ''couriered hundreds of thousands of dollars out of the United States'' for the Church of Scientology in violation of Federal laws requiring cash amounts over $5,000 to be disclosed to Customs officials.

    She Reports Ferrying Francs

    She also said she had ferried money, ''in large bundles'' of Swiss francs, to banks in Luxembourg and Liechtenstein, for accounts listed in the names of the church and Mr. Hubbard.

    The former church officials said many of Mr. Hubbard's assets were now being managed by still another company he controls, Authors Services Inc., which is in an office building on Sunset Boulevard here.

    Howard D. Schomer, a former Scientologist who was an executive of the company from March 1982 until November 1982, said in an interview that he had been told a major task of its staff was to convert assets of the Church of Scientology to the assets owned by Mr. Hubbard, in part by preparing invoices for fictitious services by Mr. Hubbard.

    He said that in the first six months he worked for Authors Services, Mr. Hubbard's assets grew to $44 million from $10 million.

    ''Our purpose was to get as much money as we could from the church and make it look legal,'' he said. ''We were skimming money from the church; it was fraudulent as far as I was concerned.'' As far as he knew, he said, Mr. Hubbard paid taxes on this income.

    (snipped)
     
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  19. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor


    You are not giving Dr. Hubbard enough credit. He was far more than a mere egotist.

    He was a full-blown megalomaniacally sociopathic sadist.

    As captain of the ship, all he left behind him was a miserable wake of human suffering, loss and destruction.

    If you still feel honor bound (to "never desert a comrade in need"), you may now rise up out of your chair and stand facing and manically applauding the wall-photo of the severely mentally ill man in the naval costume.

    .
     
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  20. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    You could call him a Sordid Source.