ANZO Sea Org Abortions

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by Fabian Marcabian, Oct 27, 2008.

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  1. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Well, convincing people to 'voluntarily' cut off their balls may not be a hugely effective PR move, but, compared to what Scientology convinces people to do to themselves and others....

    Well, it's small potatos

  2. Ladybird

    Ladybird Silver Meritorious Patron

    No, they don't literally cut off guys balls, they just snip the vas deferans.

    I think you know that and if not google is your friend.

  3. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    What if they had them sign a waiver......

    "I ______________ agree to have my nuts tied together so as to keep myself from procreating for the "good" of Scientology"

    Would that make it all good?
  4. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    (COVERS EYES):bigcry:
  5. Happy Aberree

    Happy Aberree Patron with Honors

    80s at AOSH ANZO

    I've just picked up this thread and I was on crew at the AOSH ANZO in the late 80s when Julie first got pregnant. I have always liked Julie and the 'handling' she went through was horrible.

    At the time, I asked why all the execs were yelling at Julie (first phase lasted for about a day and a half in the Captain's office) and my senior told me that she was pregnant. It didn't click with me until just recently (when I started reading about forced abortions in the SO) that Julie was being coerced to have one. Otherwise they would have just given her a standard 'face-rip' and sent her to the lower org.

    If anyone had told me that abortions were forced on girls in the SO, when I was on crew, I wouldn't have believed them.

  6. PokerPlayer

    PokerPlayer Patron

    ( I typed up this post in a word doc and before I posted I decided to do a search of the board first. I found this thread. This thread gave me info I was looking for but I am going to post my message anyway. This thread makes me so ticked off, how could any organization do such things!)

    I am going to start this thread with this statement, the more I read this board the more pissed off I get.

    Why is that? There are many different reasons for this but currently the reason is SO members having abortions. I mean, how can this be? Actually, I know the answer to that due to similar experience I went through when I was a course supervisor.

    I was the course supervisor for the Org (we didn't have Day and FDN, there was just one Org). I supervised EVERYONE. My the course schedule was 9am to 10:30pm – there were lunch and dinner breaks, but I supervised all the public and all the staff. I went to the Ethics Officer, yea we had one, and told her “look this isn't fair! I can't create a 2D with anyone as they are all my students and it would violate the supervisor's code. Dumb me as this outcome isn't good; however, I just wanted to be honest ethical about it. I eventually got her to allow me to date someone.

    The woman ended up getting pregnant. Someone was rushed to replace me for awhile and I was put on mest work and sec checked till the cows came home. Boy, was that fun! NOT! The women soon became very, very critical of Scientology (oh, she was a staff member!). I mean very critical.

    After all the mest work, tons of sec checks and doing lower conditions on the 1 through 3rd dynamics, it was time to confront and handle this situation with that woman and her being pregnant. My Ethics officer ended up being both the Snr C/S and the ED. Yep, I had both of them. Just a note, a few years later the ED ended up being declared.

    By this time, the child was born but guess what? The child ended up being twins. Yep, twin girls! I was ready to route off staff and take care of my responsibility in this matter. Plus, I really wanted to be a dad. Someone else had been trained as a supervisor and take care of that. Okay, you won't let me route off, I will just go to a foundation schedule while I take a wog job so I can handle my responsibility on this situation I created. No go.

    I was made to method 9 w/c HCO PL “Ethics, Justice and the Dynamics”, HCO PL “The Basics of Ethics” and then made to do a bunch of Repair of Past Ethics Conditions. I have to say here that I was never, up to this point, in trouble over a 2d situation. Ever. I had previously had 1 long term girlfriend and I was like 21-22 when this went down. So having a messy 2d was just not something I was use to having.

    After all the conditions, the RPEC and oh, did I mention “Conditions and Exchange by Dynamics”? I had to do that too, It was decided the only solution was for me to give up my rights as a dad. Man, I didn't want to do that. That was the only solution I could come up with after all the “ethics actions” done on me. Hell, it had to have been 100 hours of Sec Checks and lord knows how many hours of mest work.

    After leaving staff, me signing my rights away always, always and still does burns a hole in my heart. I just can't stand it sometimes. Much too late now as the girls are about 19 and are going to college. Yea, I have my way of finding out what is up with them.

    If I ever meet them how the F---- do I explain this to them? Makes me so freaking mad and sad.

    But now back to why I started this thread:

    I gave up my rights as a parent, I do not thing if I were a woman and I got pregnant that I would have agreed to an abortion. I say that but heck I don't know. I also don't want anyone here to think I think any less of them or making them wrong or anything as at this point I am pointing to the Church as the cause.

    I see what happened to me, how could this happen to create an abortion. I am having such a hard time reconciling that in my head. Heck, with everything LRH said in Dianetics about abortion and how bad it is and how it shouldn't be done, how could this be allowed to happen? How?

    I think it may have been done the same way as it was done with me but with a HELL OF LOT MORE PRESSURE as it is the Sea Org.

    Did the SO Org pay for it? I guess that is what I want to know. The whole thing just pisses me off so much, the coercion, the tactics, etc.. and it all just going totally against what LRH himself says. But if an SO Org actually paid for one of these things!

    I know I ranted a little bit, I know this is a sensitive subject and I hope, oh I hope, no one takes this post the wrong way. To me, having an abortion goes against everything LRH says on the second dynamic

    This has just been on my mind for several days and I would like to gather more information about HOW the SO actually accomplishes this with its members. Do you get RPF'd after the abortion? Do you have to do lower conditions for getting pregnant? Sec Checks? Stuff like that but really WHO pays for it?
  7. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Hey Poker Player,

    I get it. I'm very saddened by this.

    I don't know what I would've done in your shoes, or how I would've coped when I found out later that it was all for a giant con. I see why you are getting pissed off.
  8. Kookaburra

    Kookaburra Gold Meritorious Patron

    Poker Player, your story is horrific and deserves to be publicised broadly. I know what you mean when you say the more you read this board the more pissed off you get. Me too, and I've been reading for a few years now. I've gotton to the point where I've concluded that that rotton little cult is the embodiment of evil on this planet and needs to be totally decimated. It is staggering the amount of abuses they have perpetrated and still manage to hide it from those inside. But not for much longer.

    To answer your questions on how abortions are coerced, from what I have been told and observed, the women are berated for being off purpose, for having 'other fish to fry', and assigned lower conditions. Of course they can't get out of lowers unless they come to the 'correct' conclusion. Over the years there has come to be an enormous amount of peer pressure as those who refused abortions were sent to Class V orgs, or later offloaded, leaving those who had abortions themselves as the 'peers'. So it seems that a group agreement developed.

    At first a couple refusing an abortion were sent to a Cl V org together. Unfortunately the SO would get the last little bit of production possible out of them, so would wait till about a week before the baby was born to send them out, and with no money and no medical. Yep, the Sea Org looks after their own allright.

    Later on it became standard practice to separate the spouses if an abortion was refused, the husband would be worked over to divorce his wife and she'd be turfed out alone and pregnant. The deadbeat fathers would be kept and no child support would be paid.

    If a woman got the abortion, she would not go to RPF, she'd go back on post. Immediately. No matter how sick she was. After all, it was her fault she got pregnant. Oh, and the woman would have to pay for the abortion out of that juicy SO salary of $30.00 a week.

    After awhile, there were so many abortions that it became the norm, and murdering your own children for the good of the group became the new moral code of the group. Sick, eh?

    I knew from the moment I heard of the first co-erced abortion that Scientology was doomed. Forced abortions will be its undoing. A group that has sunk that far into depravity will not survive. The decency of mankind will rise up and crush it. And the sooner the better.

    S'cuze the rant, but this subject really pisses me off.
  9. Tiger Lily

    Tiger Lily Gold Meritorious Patron

    Poker Player,

    I'm so sorry for what you went through and are going through with this. It's making me angry just to read it; anyone who's ever had a child could see how cold and inhuman it is to do what they did. Yes, people need to hear your story. Thank you for posting it.

    I hope that you do get to meet them and let them know how much you wanted them. It would be a hard thing to explain, but just the fact of knowing that you love them would be worth a lot.

    It continues to amaze me how the "tech" about the dynamics is ignored in the COS. I could easily go on a rant of my own here. This is a very touchy subject. If anyone says there's not evil in the COS, they haven't heard these stories.

    Thanks for sharing PP,
  10. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    PP: Hubby and I were also Full, fulltime Org Staff, working from 8 am till 11pm or 12.

    Your story is heartbreaking, PP! :bigcry:
  11. apple

    apple Patron Meritorious


    When I first heard of this practice in the the SO I thought it was disgusting, hypocritical and evil.
    Maybe in a way pregnancy can be a good thing when in the SO. It can be a way out! First to a Class V org. Then more liberty is needed to look after the child. It could be like a tear in the wall and the freedom light begins to shines in. The tear is enlarged because of more demands on being a parent. Soon it is big enough to jump through and then The child should alway take precedence over the cult. There is no more time for the cult!

    The other day I told a Scn friend of this abortion practice. They didnt say anything but they felt uncomfortable with the idea. I dont know if they even knew of the policy. But they knew and were disgusted with the SO kids of not even having a high school education.

    Having and loving a child could be one of the greatest rewards of life. To abort a child for some science fiction greed cult production stats just tears my heart out.
  12. Ralph Hilton

    Ralph Hilton Patron Meritorious

    I don't think anyone involved in coerced abortions can call themselves a Scientologist. LRH clearly states his views on the matter :

    "Morality is more than questionable when it takes a high school girl, sends her to a doctor’s office for an abortion, wrecks her glandular structure by so doing, and impedes her dynamics. It is more than suspect when it gives that same girl a deep sense of guilt, along with an engram which, kicking around and festering in any reactive mind, will undoubtedly trigger the majority of the other engrams in the bank. If we as people say this is necessary, the dwindling spiral of aberration has descended further than we might have guessed." Preventitive Dianetics 30 Aug 1950
  13. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Since when was Scientology (or Ron) about 'morality'? Besides, if it's for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics, it would be immoral to worry about freaking woggy middle-class 'morals'.

  14. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Scientology - The Disorient Express!

    Contradictory input intended to disorient? :confused2: :ohmy: I give you the Barany chair::nervous: :hattip:
  15. Ralph Hilton

    Ralph Hilton Patron Meritorious

    LRH was condemning "morality" that enforced abortions. DM & crew are engaging in a similar false morality in promoting "greater good for the dynamics" or whatever other specious "moral" reasoning they employ.
  16. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    Oh for goodness sake, it's not all DM.
    My experiences on the subject go back to Saint Hill in 1969. I didn't have one in the end, but that doesn't lessen the pressure or the reasons to do so. Scientology as a whole subject rarely practices what it preaches. :grouch:
  17. cantsay

    cantsay Patron Meritorious

    It wouldnt matter that LRH had said abortions werent ok. That was "just in a book", not in policy. SO members were EXPECTED to do WHATEVER IT TOOK to salvage this sector of the universe. LRH wrote contradictory policy on everything. Give me the red and green vols, and I can find policy to justify ANY overt you can think of, no matter if he says its not ok elsewhere.
  18. totallyblown:)

    totallyblown:) New Member

    being pregnant

    Hi all,

    I was basic course supervisor at Hastings mission uk for a short time.
    To cut a long and painful story short, the ED was a total bitch to me when she found out that I was pregnant and called me and my partner all the names under the sun. I was in training at this time. I mostly finished my training but had to stop at 7 months pregnant. I was unable to recite the supervisors code as my daughter would kick me every time and make me laugh....
    I was treated pretty badly in the end at St Hill. They would not allow me to leave the course room to pee or rest or drink or eat or be sick. I left and wanted to finish the training after the birth.
    I moved heaven and earth to finish the training when my little girl was 3 months old. It was a nightmare and all had to come out of my own pocket of course. That's another story. I returned to the mission having gone through sleeping in a single bed with my newborn for 2 months and found the ED and her cronies were totally against me. REALLY. I have never experienced such hatred and out ethics. They were NASTY.
    I had no students to supe except the ones that I roped in - mostly my own music students - and in the end, due to the fact that I was unable to afford a baby sitter, let alone find one I could leave my baby with, I was expelled. Just like that. I went to ethics and they found that mine were in.... fns etc. The ED, however, was not ethical at all. In the end, I just kept on walking as I had had enough abuse to last me a long time. My daughter was and is FAR more important than those silly people.
    I have been a practicing Buddhist for 10 years (although they tried to stop me from doing that) and I am happy to say that I am back on my path again.
    The sh** that I got for being pregnant, having a beautiful baby and wanting to do the best for her was unreal. The fact that she is mixed race and her Daddy is black as the ace of spades freaked them all out. I got the lot.....
    I tried to find someone to replace me before I was so kindly removed and during that process, found that all the emails I sent to the missions in the WHOLE of Europe bounced back save 2 in France. This made me realise that the whole thing was a con / front / money making business. 35 emails returned?
    Then I started to look at the stats and the fake stats that had been twisted and bent out of shape so that birthday games could be won etc..... how come my stats counted in Plymouth, again in Hastings, again in Brighton, again in wherever.....? Hmm.... faked.
    I looked at OT3 materials and then realised that I was being lied to.
    I read as much data as possible and the piece de resistance - Jason Beghe. THANKS MATE - you saw me through the time when I was being hurt by these crazy people. Watching his you tube dvd was brilliant. To hear it from someone 'up the bridge'. I realised that Mr Humbug was just having us on.
    So - I have been out since October 08 and although there is a lot to get through, I am finding myself again. I was only 4 years in so I got off lightly. I think I have SP status now.... ha ha ha - what a joke... me an SP!
    Is that short for Special Person? h aha ha ha ha ha - no, I think that is reserved for my beautiful little girl. She is a special person and thanks to her, I am out of the darkness.
    Many good vibes to you all
  19. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Welcome, TB.

    You might want to post over in the New Member Introductions section. People might miss you in here.

  20. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac Silver Meritorious Patron


    Glad you stood up for yourself and for your kid! :thumbsup:

    What's this? 35 phony e-mail addresses? Where did you get them? Could you give an example?

    I found you here, though. Paul did, too.


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