Are the FZers and the Independents learning from Anonymous?

Discussion in 'Freezone, Independents, and Other Flavors of Scien' started by Alan, Feb 24, 2008.

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  1. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Are the FZers and the Independents learning from Anonymous?

    I hope that the messages from Anonymous are being passed along to the FZer’s and the Independent’s.

    As they too evolve – we too should evolve.

    Both the FZer’s and the Independent’s need to police themselves and inspect if we are guilty of the same or similar abuses as the CofS.

    Terrill as you seem to be one of the leading spokes people for the Freezone are you passing on the videos to other FZ leaders?

    I am passing on those vids to other Independents……already several positive changes are being made. :happydance:

    Alan
     
  2. Muhammad

    Muhammad Patron

    what i learned

    I learnthat anon is full of crap just like the church. alls fair in love in war.
    Both orgs will do anything to enhance their position. The church is control by the goverment. Who controls anon? Sound like Hegelian Dialecticism to me.
    The true will set you free, the bullshit will keep it going in circles
    As-Salamu Alaikum
     
  3. Alan

    Alan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ah! such affinity!
     
  4. nw2394

    nw2394 Silver Meritorious Patron

    I normally love to read your posts Alan, but I find this one perplexing.

    Er, what? I have learnt a lot from ESMB, from various people and in particular you. I am not sure Anon has taught me anything - I am very glad they are there and try to help Terril answer their questions about the FZ on enturbulation.org.

    I haven't seen their vids on any other message boards myself - though I am not on that many. On two, at least, they would be unwelcome as "off topic". On another, they might be welcome - they simply aren't there. I won't post them as I haven't learnt anything from them - frankly I find the ones which might be said to be directed at people like me as amusing, but naive.

    I might preach to others when I complete changing myself.

    Yeah - maybe. I am offended that you consider that the things we do in anything like the same league as CoS.

    Glad you find them educational.

    Nick
     
  5. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    Seems to me that Anon teaches all that there may be consequences if you fail to deliver what you promise, if you don't "practice what you preach", if you offer spiritual assistance with mercenary intentions. Stuff like that. :confused2:
     
  6. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    Alan,

    I think your post is spot on. After being in both the CofS and Ron's Org - the Ron's Org I was in could definitely learn some stuff from Anonymous. We all agree (I would hope) that Anonymous can definitely help the CofS get off it's high horse and start being civil to it's staff and it's public, just for starters.

    I don't necessarily think the Ron's Org I was involved with was abusive in any sense of the word - but it could use some improvements - nothing sweeping, but some basic manners, not sharing TMI, etc.

    To me, Anonymous, appears to be professional in it's videos and organized in it's protests. The protesters I spoke to were both well spoken and polite. Didn't know what I expected from them - but was pleasantly surprised they were the above. And considering they could have been defensive since they thought we were following them. But they weren't - just a pleasant, to the point conversation - were good, you're good - it's all good, carry on your good works.
     
  7. nw2394

    nw2394 Silver Meritorious Patron

    Exactly. The much criticised KSW Series 1 is at least right about that. Where is there a new message from Anon that should be learnt by FZers and Independants - I don't see one.

    Nick
     
  8. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    The message is that you will be held accountable for your actions. Even if you manipulate your public, there will always be others who care.
     
  9. nw2394

    nw2394 Silver Meritorious Patron


    That sounds like a poxy threat. What public have I manipulated?

    Nick
     
  10. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    If you haven't there is no need to be defensive. It's just a point to note. As you said KSW Series 1 laid it out. But the tail began to wag the dog and KSW went out the window. FZers should be aware of this and continue to check themselves from Self Righteousness. ( not that any of them are) Sheesh!
     
  11. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I'm sure we all have a lot to learn from one another. I haven't really seen the Anons say much about the FZ...one or two posts that "they're crazy" and a number of posts and videos indicating that some Anons feel a person should be able to practice Scn in the Freezone if they so desire.

    That's not new knowledge but it's relevant and good to know what's being said.
     
  12. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    there is a core difference in philosophy between Scientology and 'anon' (as much as 'anon' can be said to have a 'philosophy') and that is that Scientology per doctrine abhors 'committee' deliberation and intent and 'anon' abhors 'leaders' and 'authority' (namefags etc.)

    Scientology demands a hierarchical 'top down' organization, while 'anon' rejects it out of hand. Or, more correctly, once a subset of 'anon' becomes an hierarchical structure, it ceases to be 'anon'. It requires no deliberation; it's merely a case of definition.

    Scientology abhors 'natter'; 'anon' *is* natter. A perfect example of GIGO and the survival of the fittest idea.

    Scientology invents words and enforces definition; 'anon' mutates language on an organic and breathtakingly fast level.

    Those are just a few differences. I'm not sure what the FZ or Scns could learn from 'anon', but, even the exposure is infectious :)

    Zinj
     
  13. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    My mistake

    Perhaps I should not agree that FZ should learn something from anonymous, but that we all learn from the anonymous experience. They are not allies of the FreeZone. They are what they are. They are vigilante. They are implementing control for some idealogical (?) purpose. I don't know how much Anonymous will "evolve". It's not really organized for evolution. I don't expect Metropolis to be safe because they exist. But they have done their homework and will get a message out. That is valuable to all of us.
     
  14. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    some more differences:

    Scientology attempts to rigidly control the input of 'data' by labeling it 'theta' and 'entheta', while 'anon' is a kind of universal garbage digester that takes mounds of unsubstantiated and often patently ridiculous crap in with the nourishment and filters it through a distributed and communal kidney to glean the valid.

    If anything could pick the raisins out of Elron's turd, it'd be 'anon', but, they seem in no rush to swallow yet :)

    Zinj
     
  15. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    I guess you could indeed say they aren't allies of the FZ, but they aren't enemies of it, either. Some critics are- but the Anons are not. They also are fair minded about the FZ, mostly.

    I think we can learn from their energy and ability to accomplish things.
     
  16. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I've posted quite a few anon videos to FZ forums. I very much appreciate what anon are doing, have protested with them, and am answering questions about scn and the FZ on their main current forum. They need to learn from us, [including critics]and are very FZ and I presume independent friendly. Eager to learn and doing so really fast. With my obvious FZ picket sign I was asked by many anon questions about the FZ. Incidentally I've been recently having some very friendly skype comm with an anon you also have made friends
    with. :)

    I'm deeply impressed with what anon has done so far and am impressed by their intelligence.

    By and large the FZ seem to be supportive of anon, though
    I don't think many were active on the first protest. I hope that changes. The more picket signs telling people trapped inside COS that tech is available outside the better.

    I was told by our mutual anon friend that originally they were just a hundred or so people on some internet forums that
    comprised anon, and then somehow in about 3 weeks the world had 9000 polite intelligent and impassioned protesters
    visiting COS. Including housewifes etc. :)

    The COS has severely violated first, senior and service PLs for decades, plus all the abuse, and is reaping the wirlwind as a result.

    Its sort of miraculous. :)
     
  17. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Police myself? I'd have to be pretty out of valence for that.

    Or, at least we'de have to assume there are more than one of me here, one to police the other?

    My lessons from Anon are yet to come.

    I'm waiting to see the results from all the noise.

    T.O.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  18. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Senior Policy is mostly confidential.

    For example, per Hubbard, there is "PR of PR," which is faux policy about "Public Relations" itself, presented for PR purposes. There is also faux, (mainly "display-level" ) Policy, or "PR of Policy." A notable example of this would be the Policy called the Reform Code of 1968, which cancelled Security Checking, Disconnection, and Fair Game.

    There is a hierarchy of Policy, with - generally - "confidential" Policy being senior.

    Some non-confidential Policy reflects this confidential Policy, yet there can be found faux ("PR"/display) Policy that seems contradictory.

    One non-confidential Policy that does reflect (in its last two pages), senior confidential policy, is the 'Bolivar' Policy Letter. In it, Hubbard wrote that the Scientology "juggernaut" will succeed if it is run as a "tight conspiracy."

    Scientology's founder designed Scientology as a criminal operation with a mental-healing coating.

    Additionally, while under the influence of - or dominated by - this secretive and criminal operation, the average Scientologist was never supposed to "grok" or "get" that this was so.

    (This could lead to the further recognition that the "Bridge" itself - being part of the "mental-healing coating" - is not primarily the "Bridge to Total Freedom," but something else...

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=71164&postcount=108 )

    In 1982, Hubbard ordered the (then 22 year old) Miscavige to head the looting of the Missions, primarily for the money which he regarded as HIS, but also to destroy the Mission Holders, who - particularly with the court ordered release of the Guardians Office documents in late 1979 - were potentially beginning to 'connect the dots'. They had to be wiped out.

    Miscavige "proved himself" by "meeting his stat" during the Hubbard-ordered looting rampage.

    All of this - to the well meaning but naive - is "off policy."

    Except that "tight conspiracies" don't run on "nicey nicey" (another Hubbard term) Display Policy.

    Contains Martin Samuals quote at bottom, and link to Larry Brennan interview:

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showpost.php?p=54027&postcount=42
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  19. grundy

    grundy Gold Meritorious Patron

    Just as a comment here ....

    Comm Cycle.

    I think that the problem is that the people "attacking" are waiting for a sufficient acknowledgement that you understood what they say.

    I see this all of the time with my father and my brother when they get into fights (about business not personal oddly enough). Neither one is espousing a position that is irrational in and of itself. They may disagree, and they might even understand the other position.

    But they hammer at each other because neither one is acknowledging the other person's comment/viewpoint. Not about agreeing or disagreeing. Just about acknowledgement.

    So I end up acting as a referee, forcing first one to listen to the other and acknowledge, and then reversing it. Poof .. fight over.

    Good Twin, NW2394 - do you get my point?
     
  20. Good twin

    Good twin Floater

    Point taken

    Absolutely!
     

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