Ask Kate your questions here...

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Panda Termint, Feb 22, 2014.

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  1. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    The CofS has always had non-participating Fringe Dwellers who thought of themselves as scientologists. Back in the 70s most people just humored them when they made an appearance, these days they're, for the most part, persona non grata.

    Kate, Forgive me if you've already answered this but are you actually a paid-up (as in IAS Membership) Member of the CofS or do you think of yourself as part of that group?
  2. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Well, here's my opinion on the situation.

    The people in the CofS don't consider you a Scientologist. To them you are "Mrs. Patty Cake". This is LRH's term for what you are doing.

    Now, the CofS is instructed by LRH to turn Mrs. Patty Cake into a dedicated Scientologist but the problem in your case is that you seem to be somewhat remote from an org and therefore they can't get at you. Therefore you have a somewhat blinkered view of what being a Scientologist means. If you were to go into an org then you would be subjected to the gang bang regging, sec checks and all of the nasty things you have heard about and you would either have to become a "real" Scientologist or else you would be kicked out and probably be declared a suppressive person.

    Currently you are not an independant Scientologist because you are affiliated with the Cofs and you are not a CofS Scientologist because you are just being Mrs. Patty Cake.

    Therefore, I still don't see how the term "Scientologist" refers to you. As for a different term, well I don't know if there is one. You seem to be a seeker of knowledge with an interest in many different areas of spirituality, not just Scientology, so why label yourself as anything in particular?
  3. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    If a person pays the IAS membership, and continues to do so, no matter what he or she calls him or herself, he or she is directly supporting and funding OSA, and the endless litany of obnoxious lawyers, attacks on innocent people, media lying, PR capers, intel capers, noisy investigations, deceit, manipulation, and on and on. The purpose of the IAS, no matter how they mince words, is to protect and defend CORPORATE SCIENTOLOGY! :yes:

    Within the context of ALL Hubbard's instructions and orders, the "Scientology religion" IS "corporate Scientology". That is obvious and clear if one simply reads the lists of suppressive acts without bias. To Hubbard, he made it entirely clear that "Scientology" equaled "corporate Scientology" and "the Church of Scientology". Of course, many FZers and fringe types tend to ignore that fact.

    If a person keeps up on the IAS membership, then whether this person is a "fringe dweller" or not is moot - he or she DIRECTLY funds the nastiest side of the subject and practices of Scientology. At some point ones purported ideas must align with behavior (hopefully, ideally).

    Oh, that's right, the poor sucker didn't know anything about what OSA was "really doing" - that is ignorance by choice, which is a common state of many Scientologists (for example, they are ordered to, and then comply with NOT viewing and learning from any "critical entheta" on the Internet). This is self-imposed ignorance by coercion and by personal agreement to conform to the orders of the "authorities" (Hubturd, DM, INT management, Sea Org, policy, etc.).
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  4. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Do they let people stay on course if they don't join the IAS? I thought to be active, in anyway, it was required to be a current member. I'm not talking about buying a book but taking a course or receiving auditing or processing..I also assume if you don't buy an IAS membership you will get sent to ethics before you can do anything course or processing related to work on your case. I'm sure they will sell a book or lecture to anyone, IAS member or not.
  5. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    I don't know (doubt) if that applies to "extension courses". But, if you are going into the "Org", as far as I know, yes, you MUST have an IAS membership.
  6. l whip

    l whip Patron

    I thought of a word to describe this tricky situation, well two or three.

    Hava Nagila ("Let us rejoice") is atraditional song that has become a staple of band performers at Jewish weddings and Bar Mitzvahs.
    In my meatball Yiddish the translation is half a nagila. The words go

    “Half a nagila, half a nagila, half a nagila, Is better than no nagila at all…”

    Half a Scientologist is better than no Scientology at all?
  7. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

  8. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Then you are not a Scientologist and using that label only causes confusion and can be detrimental to those lurking who only see "I find Scientology useful" without the fact that this usefulness doesn't include the biggest parts of Scientology.

    To me this is like saying "I'm a Christian but I don't believe Jesus was the messiah"

    To me this is like saying "I'm a Muslim but I don't think Mohammed was THE Prophet" LRH was was/is Source, how can you say his interpretation of his own writings were incorrect? He wrote it and all this shit has only been going down in the last 64yrs.. There is no question that he is Source.

    We can question who wrote the Koran and the Bible..but we have Hubbs on tape and video, this modern day. It's like saying my own interpretation of this post that I am writing is wrong at this minute is wrong. You might and others might interpret what I am writing to be not quite correct but I am the one writing it, there is no question it is my fingers on the keyboard. I am the author and Hubbard is the author of Scientology, he might have had assistance but he is the author.
  9. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Be true to yourself and damn the torpedos.
  10. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

  11. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    This is one of those slogans that has two sides.

    Sure, we should each be "true to ourselves" (or so they say).

    The problem is that the Inquisition priest who tightened the thumb screws down on a young unrepentant "heretic" was very much "true to himself".

    The suicide bomber who believes he will find himself in Paradise as soon as he detonates the bomb on a school bus of kids is very much "true to himself".

    The fanatical Christian who shoots people leaving an abortion clinic (because "abortion is against the Will of God") is very much "true to himself".

    I can provide many more examples. Shall I continue?

    The problem is that so much of what is "true" for people is delusional bullshit. It isn't such a great ideal to me. You would be better served finding your actual self (something that is basically impossible in any type of dogma-filled system, including Scientology), than being true to some arbitrary bucket of horseshit that is defined and identified with your "self".

    If people actually came to "know themselves", along with abandoning ALL dogma (most or all of Scientology ideas in this case), there would actually be a "pure self" to be "true to". What most are "true to" is their limited and often convoluted belief system. A person (self) wrapped up in a belief system is not the same as a self FREE from a belief system. Scientology was designed to, and very well acts to wrap a person up in a complex web of IDEAS that actually block and hinder any awareness of "self". Scientology promises freedom and expanded awareness, while involvement with the subject often actually delivers and brings about the OPPOSITE!

    "Be true to yourself" is a such a vague and general idea that can apply to just about any situation, from the wonderful to the entirely insane. Without some detailed context it is, like so much of Scientology too, quite inane and meaningless.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  12. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

  13. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum What a long, strange trip it's been!

    Now this hits those little generalizations that shleps like Elcon would repackage as "ultimate truths" and sell to the unsuspecting with disastrous results right between the eyes. But hell people are "responsible" for their own conditions. Ha!
  14. Sidney18511

    Sidney18511 Patron with Honors

    Hey Katie.....I have often wondered about you since reading your first confusing posts. Then today, like a bolt from the came to me!

    You are a Scientology Groupie! You can't get backstage, but hey, you speak to them in the phone and exchange emails! And you don't give a shit about who they just fucked before you

    And the COS treats you like a groupie! The use you just to put another stat notch in their belt, before Thursday 2:00pm.
  15. Anonycat

    Anonycat Crusader

    This reminds me so much of the scientology thing.

  16. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    :clap: :clap: :clap:

    Like lines from the stupid Code of Honor:

    Never fear to hurt another in a just cause.

    It seems to make total sense to the soggy-headed Scientologist who actually imagines him or herself to be "freeing this sector of the galaxy", "bringing about a world without war, crime and insanity", and "freeing thetans (for the first time in many ages). But, they never extrapolate the idea out into OTHER contexts. The Muslim fanatic who blows up the school bus of children THINKS EXACTLY THE SAME THING! And, he spreads around that HARMING of others in the name of his (or her) "just cause". But, most Scientologists, through Hubbard's "brilliant indoctrination system", stay totally locked in the strange and convoluted context created by Hubbard. And, they NEVER for a SECOND see what has been "done to them". Of course, they created the complex mental context and structure through agreement with Hubbard's detailed and interconnected bullshit.

    A much higher truth might be, "never harm another in the name of ANY cause", and LOVE all equally as best you can. But that wouldn't fit well into Hubbard's nutty overall agenda.

    So much of Scientology, as you correctly point out is GENERAL VAGUE PLATITUDES, that get strung together in some seemingly logical "whole". It is a big illusion (that some sucker buys into and selectively interprets without much attention to context).

    It involves a sort of mental and spiritual "vampirism". Hubbard tricks the believers into FEEDING ones own deeply personal and vital meaning and value into what is really an EMPTY CHARADE.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  17. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum What a long, strange trip it's been!

    * In general, to me Scientology is a mystical religious framework. Dianetics, "clear", "ot", etc. are to me more or less meaningless or useless concepts”.
    Great, you are on your way Kate! Now that you have realized that these are “meaningless or useless concepts", all we have to do is wait until you stumble upon the realization that these concepts are the backbone of $cientology and the entire reason that I got in. Then connect the dots…
    By the way, I like to add the $ because I don’t feel like they are worthy of my writing their name as they spell it. After all there is no real correct spelling as the flubster simply made up the word, just like I made up flubster. Maybe that makes me "the Son of Flubber" or Flubster.
    And shame on you for leading off with a term like “Schema Theory” which is a classic Flubster tactic for MUing somebody early on in the text so as to slide them into “aneten” with the resultant effect of reducing their ability to think through the rest of the text and more or less just assimilate it into their subconscious to be figured out later. That was part and parcel of hypnotizing people into blinded abeyance, like hitting them in the face with handful of magic warlock powder. You just knew no one would bother to look up the term due to general lack of interest in it didn't you, you little scamp! :)
    Have you figured out which one it is yet, meaningless or useless?
    I’ll read further into your post manana and maybe you can further enlighten me with your kind response.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  18. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    Oh believe me I use PaulsRobot a lot and I find it awesome! But your experience here, at least at this point, is inherently going to be vastly different than mine. Back when I was going through non-label phase I said almost word for word what you wrote should cover it, because I think you're right - that _should_ cover it. What I got in return though, from some members of this forum, was accusations of secretly being a Scientologist and lots of 'you should just admit you are Scientologist and stop lying to us and yourself'-type messages. Well I took their advice and this the result.
  19. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Right . . . .

    They "made you do it"!


    Note: Accepting anyone's LABELS is still accepting labels - even if originally from some member or members of this board. The choice to accept any label is yours and yours alone.
  20. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Could you give us some specific examples (I'm thinking as succinct as possible description of three or four such?) of those "several things" you disagreed with in the indie scientology ideas, and the contrasting/related version of those same ideas from CoS version that you found you liked better. Thanks in advance.