Ask Kate your questions here...

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Panda Termint, Feb 22, 2014.

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  1. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    Yes I've read KSW - it's literally all over the place in Scientology material. Mrs. Pattycake is described in an HCOPL that might be studied by staff members but I have little to no interest in. As I've read through all the red volumes its quite likely I've read that HCOPL at some point and forgot about it, but in general I only focus on the things that are important to what I'm doing.

    I think KSW is really dumb and dogmatic. I very much dislike dogmatism.
     
  2. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Wow! I never looked at it that way! Great point. THAT CONTEXT shines an entire new light on all of this!

    :thankyou:

    What Veda just said explains a HUGE array of things - if true. And, as we all know, Scientology has USED "scholars" and "researchers" who have provided the spin and results the Church of Scientology desired in the past. Also, the C of S allows these people a very WIDE amount of leeway because he or she satisfies a LARGER PURPOSE in "helping Scientology".
     
  3. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    I like when people ask for specifics too! If you see generalities in my posts and want more info then please ask away!
     
  4. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    Maybe it is a fluke :confused2: I've never claimed that it was normal, only relayed my experience. I disagree with KSW in almost every respect. Why would I do that thing you mention when right now I can do extension courses which I feel like I get something out of and I also feel allows me the chance to do exactly what you are talking about in a much more accepted and subtle manner. Going up to someone and saying "the reactive mind is made up!" doesn't do any good for anyone but writing a 4 page essay on the clear cognition as part of an extension course allows me to communicate the same thing in a way that gets me a 'VWD'.
     
  5. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    If my endorsement is actually a good thing, it might scare people off if my conversations here are any indication ;-)

    By the way, a friend recently gave me a ThetaMeter and I'm hoping to eventually get around to reverse engineering the protocol it uses to talk to the desktop software then write some new software for it that does a sort of automatic session where it can give commands and use voice recognition to know when to move to the next questions/commands (as well as trying to intelligently read the meter itself so the PC doesn't have to think about it). Sort of an integration of PaulsRobot and metering software. I don't have a lot of free time since I started going back to university but hopefully I'll get around to it one day.
     
  6. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    You make too much noise . . . for no reason that makes any sense.

    Just do your extension courses, have fun, and live your life. But you don't do that. You spend great amounts of time HERE on ESMB. :confused2:

    I come here from time to time because I have many years of experience with all aspects of Scientology, going back to the mid-1970s, on staff, as a public, in the Sea Org, having read just about every policy and HCOB and book ever written, etc. I have a wide and mature view, that some find useful. I have a wide familiarity with Scientology theories/subject materials, and the relevant practices. I am just as familiar with organizational subject matter as the auditing subject matter. In PT, Scientology is quite meaningless in my life; I have no agenda, no axe to grind.

    Your entire perspective of things is trite and goofy to me. I don't care - you are free to be and think whatever you want. It just makes little sense at face value, which is why Veda's earlier post rang so true for me. If you are some sort of "nascent New Religious Movement scholar who affirms Scientology Inc. as a religion", then I can see how you might be genuine, but unbeknownst to you, also, you are entirely "being used" to serve corporate Scientology's purposes.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  7. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    Yes those things concern me and I try to affect what change I can from the inside. Change in an organization like this can't be only an externally-driven thing - it takes people trying to change the mindset of the internal culture. Do I believe I'll have some big impact? No, absolutely not. But I do believe that I have some small impact in almost every interaction that I have with staff and SO members.

    What makes you certain that I'm a Scientologist when many of the others here are claiming I'm not a Scientologist?
     
  8. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Can we see that essay?
     
  9. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    uh what? Then who else is the CofS viewing as source??

    i have no idea what the changes are.. Can you give some examples of what was and what you like better now?
     
  10. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Goodby Goodluck

    I call it the language trap, and I did buy into it by observing people yawning their asses off after reading LRH’s dribble, including myself back then. Once I realized that any language is a fabricated truth in masquerade as a relative truth while being presupposed to be an ultimate truth, I ceased to be affected as such and as much. As soon as I unraveled this, the “aneten” turned off and language ceased to become so deathly serious. You are as free to not chase a word down a rabbit hole as you are free to chase it down that rabbit hole. Snakes and all kind of things take up residence in rabbit holes. Maybe Hubbard didn't like that people yawned themselves into a stupor while reading his dreary Dianetic-The Modern..bla bla and found a way to hide that by saying it's all due to OUR MU's instead of HIS?
    I sometimes like to create new words that combine concepts so as to better encapsulate the essence of the person or thing I am describing, such as “flubbard”, which is a personal preference that I exercise at my discretion. That's how each word came to be anyway, unless one believes in the Tower of Babel?
    Often others consider language too big a deal to alter in any way but I know that there are endless reasons for endless things as it’s not all so cut and dry as some of Hubbard’s contentions that "this automatically means that and nothing else."
    I really should provide examples like other people do but for one thing I’m just too lazy and for another, my mind races too fast from idea to idea for me to slow it all down and flesh out it’s skeletal structure. Plus I know that if I don’t write down the ideas that flood into my head that the ideas will never reoccur to me in the same format as was in the inspiration. So I just let it all hang out…
    What level of training and auditing have you done, either in or out? Not asked for elitist purposes as I’m not one to hold that number of years and amount of services received is a feather in one’s cap. I guess it could depend on whether one’s cap is made from ostrich, sand or tin foil – all of which hang tattered on my rack - each equally as worn out by me as I am worn from wearing them. :dizzy:
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  11. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Effect changes from the inside? As a fringe "member" who only does extension courses? A person who isn't even an IAS member. You are funny beyond belief. You, the self-proclaimed "fringe dilettante", affects changes (impacts) on Sea Org members?

    :hysterical:

    Hubbard had a term for this type of view and thinking - hallucinatory cause!

    You are either really stupid or really blind. Or suffering a level of delusion that I have never seen before anywhere to such a marked degree. :yes:

    There is no "changing Scientology from the inside". To think that such a thing is possible requires a complete disconnection with obvious Scientology history and Scientology reality. This takes the idealism of youth to new levels of absurdity (if actually not some contrived pretense based on an agenda).

    EVERY PERSON who has EVER tried to "change Scientology" from the inside has ended up DECLARED SUPPRESSIVE and forcefully disconnected from all friends and family. THAT practice is a key part of your wonderful "Scientology".

    Any suggestion to change Scientology "for the better" is viewed as a CRITICISM and dealt with accordingly.

    I was declared suppressive for writing a REAL REPORT outlining actual alterations in Scientology materials. All of my efforts and good intentions to "help change things from the inside" were met with ridicule, attack and forced separation from family and friends (for years). So, to hear you say such complete horseshit almost offends me - if I could actually get offended. :confused2:

    That you say such nonsense is beyond stupid. You really are an amazing dummy or you are some sort of shill for Scientology. Either way sucks.

    Again, I don't give a rat's ass really. The world is filled with idiocy of all sorts. I can't control or change it. Your posts simply seem display another side to such idiocy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  12. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Are they even reading what you write..or just taking your money? Are you telling them in these essay you think clear and OT are meaningless?
     
  13. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    Thanks for being patient, it takes a while to get through them all. But I'm trying to do so. If you or anybody feels like I skipped something you wanted answered please point it out to me.

    Regarding that label, it depends on the context. If you mean do I still consider myself a Scientologist when posting on this board? Well I consider myself a Scientologist with an explanation that I don't use that term in the same way that some others here use it, but some here know exactly what I mean by it so it's complicated.

    To some extent I feel like there is an attitude of some members here that is along the lines of "we can't have someone who critically evaluates Scientology material calling themselves a Scientologist here because then lurkers might get the idea that its possible to critically evaluate Scientology and we can't have that now can we!" I, to be very honest, do not care at all about lurkers. I _do_ care about the regular posters here because I respect them and their opinions but I'm not going to write my posts based on the message that I think people I don't interact should be receiving, in my view that's basically propaganda. I'm not here to promote anyone's agenda - be it the Scientology is awesome or the Scientology is evil crowds. If a lurker is going to make a decision based just on my posts while ignoring the other 99.99999% of this message board than they are dumb.
     
  14. ThetanExterior

    ThetanExterior Gold Meritorious Patron

    Exactly. This is why I brought up the term "Mrs. Pattycake". From what Kate has said about her interaction with the CofS it bears no relation to the way the CofS deals with real Scientologists.

    All of this disagreeing with parts of the tech, squirreling processes etc. Can any ex-Scientologist on this board relate to this being done without the person being hauled over the coals?

    She gets away with it because they see her as Mrs. Pattycake and not yet a Scientologist.
     
  15. MissWog

    MissWog Silver Meritorious Patron

    Impact in what way? I don't understand..can you give an example?
     
  16. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    Only when these type of misunderstanding situations erupt because I believe its reasonable to try to respond to people's questions and comments. It almost always happens that I make a comment about something that someone disagrees with and they then start questioning my motives or character thus making it about me and I respond to their questions in as direct and honest a way as I know how. If I were to just ignore them I feel like it would just get worse because that would be proof that I'm OSA or some other nonsense and I'd be accused of not answering questions and avoiding discussion 'just like a Scientologist' (I've certainly had both of those things thrown at me on this board before).

    My average post-per-day count I'm pretty sure is about 1, that's not that much time on ESMB.
     
  17. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    Gaddy? Isn't Mrs. Pattycake referenced in KSW? Or am I mistaken? You know, Clear turned out to be a fraud so I don't have a photographic memory after all.
     
  18. kate8024

    kate8024 -deleted-

    I don't want to post it word for word here because that completely de-ananymizes me. I'll try to reword some parts of it and post an excerpt or something. Much of it revolved around comparing to (and contrasting it with) it a Zen koan.
     
  19. Gadfly

    Gadfly Crusader

    Yes, I posted the exact quote from KSW earlier in this thread (page 7):

    See LINK

    It is common to hear staff and some Scientology public use the term derogatorily about dilettantes and fence-hangers.
     
  20. olska

    olska Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes it does help. And FYI I really don't care what you (or anyone else) calls themselves -- to each his/her own, I'm just interested in where you're coming from with your interest in the subject and how it is that you chose THIS PARTICULAR SUBJECT, rather than some other path, in your quest for whatever it is you are questing for. I'm not that interested in your attitudes toward or affiliations with various group(s) or individuals that use the name "scientologist" -- I'm more interested in the beliefs to which you ascribe and/or doctrines you may have adopted. More questions on that, later. Meanwhile...

    Regarding what I have bolded in your post quoted above, could you give a few examples of what you consider to be their "really great work?"

    Edit: Oh, I see you already did that in answer to a post by Gadfly, so never mind. Onward and forward....
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014

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