I'm sure there are a lot of ways in which Hubbard went wrong. But since I'm one of those who think that sometimes he really did give a shit about people and his developing ...ology (I know this opinion isn't shared by everyone), I was having fun speculating on what really went wrong with him vis a vis Scn as well as CofS. A lot of abuses took place before DM took over. A lot of abusive screwed up policies were written before then, too. Plus, if you read Dianetics in Limbo, written by an ex who actually liked Dianetics, you can see that he was venal quite early on. Very interesting. I've said before that a major problem is that it became all about the group than about the individuals. That's why everyone gets hosed in CofS. But I think I could take it farther back than that, to Hubbard. Well, I already knew that it started with him. But I wanted to maybe nutshell it a bit. I think that a major problem, maybe the biggest one, was that he didn't concentrate on or have the purpose of altruism. He always wanted to make money. He did care about people at times, he sometimes did "key out" and do some decent things, but it always came back to him, his power and also not being questioned, and his position and his this that and the other thing. This is where a lot of pundits, religious leaders, cult leaders and others go wrong. The altruism isn't there. With some of these guys, there was some altruism but they lost it. With some, there was none. With most (IMO) there was altruism mixed with conceit, greed and self interest. Which creates a hideous dichotomy and undoes them and their work every time. I tend to think Hubbard fell under the last category though not everyone will agree with me. I think that if you're going to humbly tender a gift to mankind of an ideological or philosophical nature, that you need to make it completely altruistic, no strings attached. I don't think that Hubbard ever understood that. I think he thought he could care about it and others but could still have power base, lots of money, and the ego attached to being the founder. I think that this cannot ever ever work. So in my opinion and that's ALL this is- that's the problem with the founder of Scientology and creator of Dianetics.