"Crimes" or "wrong doings" within the CofS?

Discussion in 'Staff "War Stories"' started by Carmel, Sep 15, 2008.

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  1. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    There are many "stories" of one's time and experience within the CofS, on the board and on the net. These are all different and they contain various specific "truths" of how it is, how it can be and/or how it was. These stories are invaluable in regard to the very many "on the fence" who are looking for data and making a decision.

    To you newbies (and to some of you "oldies"), I know that writing up your whole "story" is a big ask (it's not something that I'm up to doing myself and I certainly admire and appreciate those who have done it). However, just about all of us on the board, have either witnessed, copped, or been part of activities/experiences within the CofS that are not OK, and that are in direct conflict with what the CofS promotes itself to be and do. It would be good to hear of and have the details about any and all "unfavorable" instances/activities/experiences, which the CofS would of course deny, hide and/or make seem "insignifant" given their all important and overriding zealous pursuit of "freedom".

    So folks, I urge you to share with us, at least one of the unfavorable experiences that you've either witnessed, copped or been involved in (no matter how "seemingly" insignificant). The data is useful, and besides that, you'll probably feel good getting it off your chest (and maybe even tell us more)!

    Over to you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2008
  2. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    Not taking care of the staff medically or with dental checkups. Usually they wait till it's a huge problem (staff also dieing because of this) then send the person for treatment...then they have them do workmans comp paperwork. Instead of just paying for it. And they make millions of dollars. :duh:
     
  3. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Good thread idea.

    What I mostly witnessed was crass stupidity. On a daily basis.

    I've seen people in tears because they were told they would be auditors when signing up for the SO or ClassV staff and then told they had to take a admin roles when the contract was signed.

    Personally, I was guaranteed a weekly income of 6x the average of what I actually received. I was also told that I could expect to go from nowhere on the Bridge to Clear (via co-audit) in 3 months. :hysterical: :laugh: :roflmao:

    Try arguing for breach of contract with those fuckers!
    There is no such thing as group responsibility in CoS.
     
  4. Neo

    Neo Silver Meritorious Patron

    This is my contribution to the theme of this thread, something that I prepared earlier:

    http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?t=6541

    The above thread relates specifically to these videos:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSm2hoqVhyE

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEbLLjvpT7E

    The use, and abuse of children within Scientology does occur, and shouldn't be tolerated. Or had a blind eye turned to it.

    I have listed on another thread the full Melbourne staff list, which shows the children that this Org employs, and their respective ages.

    Also, despite protestations from the Org to their innocence in the matter, they have never produced evidence of any of these childrens school work. They do not have a Child Employment Certificate needed to employ juniors, but my attempts to gather the physical (or lack thereof) evidence of this was rejected by the FOI. I'm not legalese enough to know how to circumvent their explained reasons for this. So I just bypassed that attempt and wrote it up in my submission to the Australian Senate for their inquiry into charities. I should hear back on this within the next two months.

    Neo
     
  5. Cat's Squirrel

    Cat's Squirrel Gold Meritorious Patron

    Also, misappropriation of funds to an extent that sails close to breaching the law. I was told of someone who gave a sum of money to Greenfields (the Scientology school) for their music department, only to have it appropriated by the SO for legal funds.
     
  6. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    I'd like to bring to your attention the hidden death of ANZO SO member Colin Gow.
    Some details remain sketchy but here's what I know;
    Colin was a wonderful character, a Chinese-Australian, who served the SO and CofS faithfully for over 15 years.
    He was very well known and loved in Sydney.
    He died some time ago after a horrendous battle with cancer of the jaw. He was in his 30s, I believe, and prior to the cancer would have been considered to be in the prime of his life.
    Colin was posted away from Sydney to South Africa to assist with the Bridge flow to the AO. Whilst in SA he had dental problems, undoubtedly the result of inadequate dental care over the preceding 15 years of SO service. A molar became infected but he was unable to get funds or approval for proper treatment. He soldiered on regardless of the constant pain and continued to produce on post.
    Time passed, his molar rotted, the abscess and infection worsened... it became cancer of the jaw.
    I met him again near the end of his life after many years of not seeing him, we had always been good friends in happier days. He either couldn't or didn't want to talk about it. We held hands, I hugged him, we both cried.
    He was shunted away from all lines and placed in a hospice to die, he ended his days there.
    I went to talk to another friend who had been helping him with the dressing of his cancerous facial wounds, she was in tears too.
    We were both crying over the same thing, the senseless waste of a brilliant young man's life for the want of $200 in dental treatment!
    Colin's Chinese family were understandably outraged at the mistreatment their beloved son had received after giving half of his life in service to the CofS. I agree with their rancor completely.
    I don't recall any mention of his death, funeral, or the circumstances leading up to his death ever being made public until now. (I may be wrong about this).
    I know one thing with absolute certainty; as far as the SO is concerned, he's not coming back!
    Rest in Peace, Colin.
     
  7. Neo

    Neo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Fred Schraitle is a Melbourne public, in his 70s. He was SO for many years. He knew LRH, and worked with him on the "Mission Into Time". Late last year, or earlier this year, he was regged heavily from Flag to purchase many copies of the full Basics book and lecture packages, worth approximately $4000 AUS. In total he was regged, for donations, for around $140,000 worth of them.

    Problem was, he couldn't actually afford this. In doing this he almost went bankrupt. They had all been donated to the Melbourne Org, but he had to take them all back, and try to sell them himself to make up the funds to get out of the financial mess he was now in. He wanted Flag to take them back. They wouldn't. He wanted Melbourne to help. They wouldn't.

    Not sure how this worked out for him in the end.

    This is an elderly man who has been a dedicated Scientologist all of his adult life. He now lives in a retirement village, and is by no means a wealthy man. Just very generous, usually with his time, and was taken advantage of by his own church.

    Neo
     
  8. Neo

    Neo Silver Meritorious Patron

    The following are laws specific to the state of Victoria, however, there would be similar laws in most jurisdictions. These were breached on a weekly basis in our Org.

    The Victorian Fair Trade Act (1999),
    Section 8. Unconscionable Conduct


    (1) A person must not, in trade or commerce, in connection with the supply or possible supply of goods or services of a kind ordinarily used for personal, household or domestic purposes to a purchaser, engage in conduct that is, in all the circumstances, unconscionable.
    (2) Without in any way limiting the matters to which a court or the Tribunal may have regard for the purpose of determining whether a person has contravened subsection (1), a court or the Tribunal may have regard to-

    • (d) whether any undue influence or pressure was exerted on, or any unfair tactics were used against the purchaser or a person acting on behalf of the purchaser by the supplier or a person acting on behalf of the supplier in relation to the supply or possible supply of the goods or services; and
    • (e) the amount for which, and the circumstances under which, the purchaser could have been supplied with identical or equivalent goods or services from a person other than the supplier.

    The Victorian Fair Trade Act (1999),
    Section 21. Harassment and Coercion


    (1) A person must not use physical force or undue harassment or coercion in connection with the supply or possible supply of goods or services to another person or the payment for goods or services by another person.

    (2) Without limiting subsection (1) the following conduct is deemed to be a contravention of subsection (1)-

    • (b) making a misrepresentation to a debtor about the consequences of not paying a debt or about the method of recovering a debt;

    Neo
     
  9. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    The biggest and most repeated outness that I experienced was being ripped off post to audit an unsessionable pc.

    I would then complain that the pc was unsessionable and be ordered to "audit anyway".

    There was a really big argument over someone who had bought 25 hours Book 1 auditing, and I was told I would be the auditor. I flatly refused, turning up the reference in DMSMH that a pc should not undergo more than approximately 5 hours in any one week (something called the Q level), and then discovered that another auditor had been assigned to do the whole 25 hours in the one week. I wonder why we never saw that pc again?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  10. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    I didn't know Colin and such a horrendous story breaks my heart.

    I did know Fred, and I feel the same about that. How dare such a nice man be abused this way?

    Neo, you are just wonderful and keep on keeping on. Save the kids!

    I know one woman who was kidnapped and "babysat" not once, but three times. One of them was because "she looked like she was about to go PTS Type 3" and she was given Mogadon to keep her quiet. The fact that she created chaos and was a great thorn in the side of Melb org seems a self fulfilling prophecy. Despite the odds stacked against her, she managed to start a school in Melbourne when no-one else ever had been able to. A PTS Type 3 did it! She then ran for cover knowing she would be attacked - which she was, but that's another story. Her paranoia in that case was justified and the school taken over, renamed Yarralinda and she was comm-evd by way of thanks. She knew it would happen, knew it from Day One and factored into her plans. She said she didn't care, she would create a school for the kids and it would be worth whatever happened to her. While I will never have anything to do with her again (I was part of the plan, left to take the shit when she ran) I admired the persistence that she showed in creating the school knowing full well what she faced. Her own paranoia and emotional manipulation skills were just what was needed to anticipate and dodge some of the incoming. Kind of ironic.
     
  11. alexm

    alexm Patron with Honors

    In my expense the crimes they are committing at CLass V's are:

    -Hiring and paying workers without visas or valid work permission, thus being illegal.
    -Promises of making between 800 and 1000 euro a month when I'd make any where from 80 a month or maybe 150 and in one case promises or making over 2000 euros per month if the Org goes Saint hill size.
    -Promising to pay my rent and health care before I joined staff but then reneging as soon as I routed on because it was my responsibility.
    -Taking away staff members personal privacy, which is not stipulated in the contact, for example showing up to your home unannounced and entering into it forcefully, asking who you slept with and how many times, calling someone off post time and ordering them either back into the Org because they were having a drink or harassing them about something regarding their post. This also happens when one is on vacation also as it did to me.
    -Being asked to work nightwatch which one can sometime be in the Org over 30 hours with no breaks, all hand and other activities late into the night with no monetary bonuses.
    -Over working staff to the point of exhaustion and beyond the normal 40 hour work week, in my case 90 and in the SO case over 100.
    -Paying them next to nothing if not nothing.
    -Being on the Bookstand selling books for over 12 hours a day, sometime at 14 or even 16 without only small 30 minute breaks, not being able to sit down and not receiving food or drink.
    -Generally lying in order to get people onto staff including tell them how much money they make or in my case, how close they are to Saint Hill size and then when it doesn't happen it is the fault of the person rather then the people who are actually in charge.
    -Creating an exhausting all work environment with no time for play or rest like regular jobs, which mysteriously staff is not although you work 100 times harder for nothing.

    There is more but these are the basics.
     
  12. EP - Ethics Particle

    EP - Ethics Particle Gold Meritorious Patron

    Failure to follow saftety procedures.

    Just briefly:

    While at ITO as an OOT (outer org trainee) we were always having a training evolution of some sort - painting, construction, demolition - whatever. After regular hours and late at night as I recall.

    I was/am an experienced supervisory general engineer for both maintenance and construction; and was appalled at the lack of attention to basic common-sense standards of safety - much less written and specific ones.

    One time I recall my little group was ordered to strip all the paint off a hollow metal door and repaint it in one evening - in place using flammable, toxic paint stripper and with no ventilation or breathing apparatus. I was lucky - the door paint job was almost perfect in the first place, so we "faked it" and it looked damn good. The proper job would have taken days and would have required a booth, protective equipment and a spray apparatus with competent operator.

    This sort of shit was common.

    I did not stay too long after that. (but did not depart scio till long after)

    Roy, the EP's EP
     
  13. Jakadak

    Jakadak Patron with Honors

    SO... I Don't Think So !!

    When I first came into Scn I did it because my 2D had been an active member for about 25 years and his enthusiasm rubbed off on me. The first book he gave me to read was the Scientology Handbook which I read in less than a week, as I couldn't put it down. After that I became involved in "The Way to Happiness" and promoted the booklet and handed it out etc. I was quite active in this area. I was very happy doing what I was doing at the time.
    Then, things changed !! The Sea Org recruitment...aaarrgg !! :omg: It was a nightmarish time for me. I wasn't "in" for long and my 2D decided he wanted to join. Of course, as I was his partner, they could see the "benefits" ( for them, not me !!! ) of both joining so they tried to recruit me as well.
    This entailed countless and long meetings at the AO with the Captain, who wouldn't take "NO" for an answer. :no:
    I told him that I was a Mum to 2 teenage boys, I was invalidated, that I was quite happy doing The Way to Happiness, invalidated again ( told me that it wasn't important) . I couldn't believe it when he wanted me to do something that I thought was unethical , especially coming from him! I was to take my partners mobile phone and sneekingly send a message to an ex girlfriend telling her "its all over".:angry: (He didn't want her on our lines any more.) Hmmmm....
    I wrote a KR with all my complaints and with the correct LRH Tech quoted ( help from Scn friends) and gave it to him. Of course he was the only person who saw it. I had been advised from other Scio friends that this was the right thing to do, although I didn't agree with them. It seemed like a cover up to me.
    He also promised me that I would go straight into an executive position. HA !!
    My 2D was changing his mind about things every time he went to the AO during this time. Firstly, one week joining on his own ( bad luck about our relationship ) Then he was going to marry me and we would join together,and then we would join seperately and not be together at all ?!? As you can imagine it was a roller coaster for me...I didn't know what he would come up with next. :confused2: He has since told me that the reason he didn't join was because I was invalidated. He just dropped the idea..thank goodness !!
    PS The Captain soon after that ended up in the RPF ..... I don't know why ?? :whistling:
    Cheers
    Jakadak
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  14. cinamingrl

    cinamingrl Banned

    ~~~

    For me, I'd have to say that the money grubbers who ran the org who were husband and wife, they owned real estate and rented it to staff. But you had to be full-time on staff. OR else you had to out up with a lot of harassment from the ED. As she and her husband literally lived off the rent money they made from staff. This to me was a huge outpoint. As it was impossible to make money on staff. So I had to "moonlight" which they didn't like and were always angry about, constantly demanding more hours of me. But I had to work a "wog" job in order to pay rent, to them.

    I can recall one night when their "wog" tenants who lived next door to me, in one of their rentals, was not paying rent. The ED and her husband were so freaked out, that literally the entire org stopped functioning that evening. Everyone was talking about how the ED and her husband were having tenant troubles with their "wog" tenants. I think what had happened if I can remember, was that they wouldn't do the repairs on their rentals, and so their tenants were withholding rent. So the ED didn't have enough money to buy coffee.

    I remember when I finally moved out of their rental and into a room for rent in a "wog" home (that was a mansion in another part of town that was like living in heaven after living and renting with scientologists), that the ED's husband was so angry that he didn't get another month of rent money from me and he accosted me in the parking lot, demanding that I pay him rent even though I didn't live in his rental any more. I pretty much told him to go to hell and that I will not ever be giving him any money ever again. I told the ED the same thing. And that her leeching husband was trying to squeeze money out of me in the parking lot.
    :angry:
    The greed they displayed was the worst I'd ever seen up to then. Only one time in my life had I ever seen that kind of greed, and that was renting from a woman who thought that money grew on trees, and that I was an open well of money. I left there too.
    :grouch:
    I do believe that there are lots of people in this world who have a sense of entitlement and who think that if someone has a dollar, that they are entitled to that dollar, just because they think they are owed that dollar. And scientologists are no different.

    I also remember seeing fake "stats". The cow in OSA drew a phony stat sheet with someones stats literally going off the page. It was because I wrote a KR on someone who she liked and she was trying to intimidate or shut me up. In order to do that she wanted me to think this this guy's stats were so high that he had "ethics protection" and so I was not to write any KR's on him. I did anyway.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2008
  15. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    I would have sent a KR on the fake stats and OSA 'cow' uplines as well! But then, when it came to KRs, I was a bitch of the first order.
     
  16. alexm

    alexm Patron with Honors

    Most of us are pretty sickened and disillusioned by the crimes and wrong doings. The fact that many of these things would be against the law if it was a regular business or company is pretty shocking and most of us can't continue with that fact. It makes you wonder what the real motivations were for Hubbard to create Class V Org staffs and the Sea Org and thus the Church also.

    We feel this way for the most past because we are good people. Aren't we? I mean I am sure that we are hardcore SP's and PTS, according to the Church for leaving because of seeing these abuses being committed. I'd rather be a hardcore antisocial personality then stand by watching these crimes and wrong doings happen and I have quit the justifications of why they are happening.
     
  17. Royal Prince Xenu

    Royal Prince Xenu Trust the Psi Corps.

    When I started, Colin was on the receiving end of my first KR--I did not take kindly to execs screaming at me. It started out rough, but eventually things were smoothed out. All I heard was the "rumor" that he had died of cancer--and certainly none of the circumstances.

    While I may not have cited him as a friend, he had earned my respect, and ending his life in this way was totally undeserved.
     
  18. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Reg. cycles

    I was ED of Sydney in the early 90's and would help reg. JD (our reg) and I had it pretty down pat. We had the "reg lost line" in, and before the bucks were put into GI, we'd get the tech estimate from the C/S. If C/S not available, I'd run upstairs and swap hats (was a C/S for seven years in the prior decade). We sold purifs and trs and objectives (only if NEEDED), an intensive or two for life repair, and training packages. We didn't just sell auditing. We disabused people of the idea, that they could/would just "get up the bridge", as a pro pc.

    One day, this guy who had been "floundering" in Scn for years (a previously "pro pc"), wandered in and wanted to talk to me. It was a Thursday morning. I had no biggies that I hadn't handled, the GI was already at around 23k or something, so I was happy to talk.

    As it turned out, he had just inherited 80k. He had debts, wanted to buy into a particular business, and wanted "the bridge". He asked me for my advice. I looked at his situation. We worked out that 35k should go straight to his debts (they were strangling him); that the 22k on the new business would be a good investment, and that given that he had that business (a cleaning business already in a phase two situation), it would allow him time to get in on course; 17k would get him his full training package, all his materials, and intensives in reserve (in case he needed any review/repair while co-auditing up the bridge).

    All was good. He was happy, and I was happy - GI for the org, and a good cycle for the guy. I told him to go and pay his debts off straight away, and to buy that business straight away. I told him to not pass "go" and that if any reg's from the AO or anywhere else were to see him, that he should call me. I gave him my numbers.

    We had 47k GI in by noon. I told my senior (CO Folo) about the latest cycle. She queried me on it, and I thought I had convinced her that I had "cleaned him out". My senior told the CO tours, who then told the reg at the AO, and by 2pm this guy only had 3k left - no business and still 35k of pending debts.

    He had to continue working 80 hours a week at his cleaning job to handle his debts, and of course he had no time to do any of the services that he had paid for. He wasn't smart, but the AO reg knew that, and took advantage of it.

    The guy never got on course or got to get any auditing. Three months later he went for a repayment from both orgs.

    "Crush sell", which is rampant in Sydney - AO services, IAS, book package donos (if landed in ethics), book tape packages, Ideal Org donos etc - is bad enough. I am guilty of a couple of "crush sell" cycles, when helping the AO make St Hill size. I have regretted that, since the night I did it, and am truly sorry for it (wish I could take it back, but I can't).

    The above example though, is one of many that goes beyond "crush sell". It was criminal, with no regard, care or possible benefit for the guy. I've worked with these reg's and heard the lies (and in the past have been a receipt point of their work). The care factor for the guy or the "purpose" - if it ever was there - got lost early on. All that mattered/matters was/is the almighty stat.

    To any lurking, who are still on lines - you'd be wise to take that on board :yes: !
     
  19. cinamingrl

    cinamingrl Banned

    ~~~

    Well if I'd had more time and energy I may have, but I'd already blown. It all comes down to how x-staff are treated after they leave. At that point, I was basically trying to breathe fire at any of them who crossed me.
     
  20. Iknowtoomuch

    Iknowtoomuch Gold Meritorious Patron

    That's kind of like telling Hitler he's killing Jews isn't it?
     

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