Debbie Cook - the story behind the story
- Thread starter Free to shine
- Start date
uncover
Gold Meritorious Patron
Another proof that Scientology doesn´t work:
At least she was familar (and comfortable) with wasting her time exorcizing imaginary space cooties. And this for at least 17 years (in words: seventeen years):
Summary: another good example how worthless Hubbard´s vomit is. Don´t waste your time with it - life is too short.
What "tech" ? The "tech" of El Con Hubbard´s vomit ? How to fool oneself ?Mike Rinder said:
At least she was familar (and comfortable) with wasting her time exorcizing imaginary space cooties. And this for at least 17 years (in words: seventeen years):
But all this wasted effort couldn´t help her with her chronic pain:Mike Rinder said:
Mike Rinder said:
Mike Rinder said:
Summary: another good example how worthless Hubbard´s vomit is. Don´t waste your time with it - life is too short.
Enthetan
Master of Disaster
An interesting part:
It's interesting how they were found. How DID Kathy True find out their location? Did the rental car have "Low Jack"?
It gives the impression that Scn has access to PI's who have access to law enforcement resources.
The implication is that any escapee who has reason to think they would really want to hunt him down, should use extreme "escape and evasion" tactics.
A lesson for any ESMB member helping somebody leave, is that you should persuade the escapee to NEVER go back into an org to "route out standardly", nor to ever enter a vehicle controlled by a Scientologist, and to treat any attempt to get onself into a Scn-controlled vehicle as a criminal kidnapping attempt, and respond accordingly. That means deciding ahead of time to use force if needed to escape.
It's interesting how they were found. How DID Kathy True find out their location? Did the rental car have "Low Jack"?
It gives the impression that Scn has access to PI's who have access to law enforcement resources.
The implication is that any escapee who has reason to think they would really want to hunt him down, should use extreme "escape and evasion" tactics.
A lesson for any ESMB member helping somebody leave, is that you should persuade the escapee to NEVER go back into an org to "route out standardly", nor to ever enter a vehicle controlled by a Scientologist, and to treat any attempt to get onself into a Scn-controlled vehicle as a criminal kidnapping attempt, and respond accordingly. That means deciding ahead of time to use force if needed to escape.
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Freeminds
Bitter defrocked apostate
Fibromyalgia, eh? More woo I'm afraid. I know that a belief in woo kind of goes with the territory for some exes: heck, we even have people on here who believe in "Chemtrails"... but I think Debbie will do a lot better when she realises that she was simply exhausted as a result of her involvement with a UFO cult.
The funny thing is, you can probably fight woo with woo: audit away the space cooties, and cure the imaginary illness.
Oh well... feel better soon, Debbie.
Edit: See the link to understand why fibromyalgia is questionable.
The funny thing is, you can probably fight woo with woo: audit away the space cooties, and cure the imaginary illness.
Oh well... feel better soon, Debbie.
Edit: See the link to understand why fibromyalgia is questionable.
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ScottPerry--sp--not-xscn
Patron with Honors
Kidnapped by Scientology
I remember once, back in a more naive America ca: 1978, when I was in my early 20's and hitch-hiking in the LA area. This fellow on this motorcycle picks me up, gives me a helmet, then proceeds to overshoot the freeway exit I had been hoping to be let-off at by about 20 miles, with me trying to tap his shoulders and whatnot to explain this to him. Finally he pulls off the freeway and drives up to this "church".
It was, you guessed it, a church of Scientology. Fortunately, that was as far as his faith, and my interest seemed to go, and he simply said something like, "Here is something I thought you might like, check it out," then tooled away on his motorcycle, leaving me before the front door. At the time, I happened to already be an ardent member of a rival cult, the cult of Prem Rawat, so I remember feeling somewhat "kidnapped" at the time. Still, since I was there, I figured, "What's the harm of poking my head in?"
Before stepping in, I did promise myself that I would make this no more than 60 seconds or so, no matter what. So I stepped in and saw this little "chapel-like" room with a bunch of empty seats, a blackboard up front, and nobody else around. The fact that nobody else was there to "greet" me, gave me a certain sense of "relief".
This "little brain" already happened to have the words: "Property of Prem Rawat" stamped clearly upon it, in what I then imagined must be indellible ink, so undoubtedly, any "greeting" from any Scientologist then, would have been entirely pointless at that time. Actually, in retrospect, I would have liked to have had a recording of such a conversation. Two bloody lunatics arguing about which brand of lunacy was supposedly the most sane!
On the blackboard was an Scn cross, and something scribbled about how eating too much sugar was bad for you. I sat down for just a few seconds, and tried to soak up the "vibes", so to speak, then left to complete my now "ruined" llittle hitch-hiking excursion. You see I was now further from the target exit than I had been when this crazy felllow had first picked me up!
In summary, I remember thinking to myself, "my cult is so much more sane than this cult". Funny way for a cultist to think, I suppose. Maybe that type of thinking was why I ended up leaving my own cult in another 3 or 4 years.
Never told anyone that story before today, but yes, I would strongly advise, never get into his car or onto his motorcycle, unless you are prepared for a little wierdness in your life!
Scott
I remember once, back in a more naive America ca: 1978, when I was in my early 20's and hitch-hiking in the LA area. This fellow on this motorcycle picks me up, gives me a helmet, then proceeds to overshoot the freeway exit I had been hoping to be let-off at by about 20 miles, with me trying to tap his shoulders and whatnot to explain this to him. Finally he pulls off the freeway and drives up to this "church".
It was, you guessed it, a church of Scientology. Fortunately, that was as far as his faith, and my interest seemed to go, and he simply said something like, "Here is something I thought you might like, check it out," then tooled away on his motorcycle, leaving me before the front door. At the time, I happened to already be an ardent member of a rival cult, the cult of Prem Rawat, so I remember feeling somewhat "kidnapped" at the time. Still, since I was there, I figured, "What's the harm of poking my head in?"
Before stepping in, I did promise myself that I would make this no more than 60 seconds or so, no matter what. So I stepped in and saw this little "chapel-like" room with a bunch of empty seats, a blackboard up front, and nobody else around. The fact that nobody else was there to "greet" me, gave me a certain sense of "relief".
This "little brain" already happened to have the words: "Property of Prem Rawat" stamped clearly upon it, in what I then imagined must be indellible ink, so undoubtedly, any "greeting" from any Scientologist then, would have been entirely pointless at that time. Actually, in retrospect, I would have liked to have had a recording of such a conversation. Two bloody lunatics arguing about which brand of lunacy was supposedly the most sane!
On the blackboard was an Scn cross, and something scribbled about how eating too much sugar was bad for you. I sat down for just a few seconds, and tried to soak up the "vibes", so to speak, then left to complete my now "ruined" llittle hitch-hiking excursion. You see I was now further from the target exit than I had been when this crazy felllow had first picked me up!
In summary, I remember thinking to myself, "my cult is so much more sane than this cult". Funny way for a cultist to think, I suppose. Maybe that type of thinking was why I ended up leaving my own cult in another 3 or 4 years.
Never told anyone that story before today, but yes, I would strongly advise, never get into his car or onto his motorcycle, unless you are prepared for a little wierdness in your life!
Scott
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Udarnik
Gold Meritorious Patron
I have to disagree on FM being totally woo. Yes, there is a psychological element which greatly complicates things, and in addition, if a doc can't find out what is actually wrong with someone, FM is often used as a "garbage can" diagnosis. But there are repeatable features that lead even medical skeptics to conceded there is something "there" there underneath the psychological hypersensitivity to normal aches and pains.
I am going to pick this book apart in installments on here, because, looking at the table of contents, I think her thinking is still influenced by Laffy's blinders, even if she isn't auditing the cooties away.
It may be interesting for some of y'all to examine her assumptions in that book.
I wish I could say the same for me, but I have the feeling her pseudoscience is not all that innovative, and I'm going to be muttering "not this shit again" a whole lot while I'm reading it.
Pheryn
Patron with Honors
Ya know, anytime I see a Debbie Cook thread I always cringe because it usually leads to an all out war, but, you really surprised me with this one. I don't even know where to start. I've re-written this post so many times and in the end all I can really say is that I'm very disappointed by your post. It is so unbelievably close minded and disrespectful to just dismiss it as 'woo', put it into the same category as 'chemtrails', and then refer to it as an imaginary illness. Look, I totally get that there is a debate surrounding Fibromyalgia and it can be a controversial diagnosis, but, the people who live with the intense pain and exhaustion (..and many more symptoms) every day and fight so hard to try and live a normal and productive life...not imaginary to them. Most of them probably couldn't care less what it's called just so long as there's some kind of treatment that will enable them to live a better life. If you wish to believe it's not a real/viable thing then that's your right, but, it's pretty harsh to essentially call the sufferers crazy.
Just my .02 :confused2:
What Debbie did as far as writing and distributing that email was good. It reached lots of people who ordinarily would not have paid much attention, but for the fact she held a position at FSO and was respected.
And I think it was the right thing to do, taking a settlement from the C of S given the circumstances, namely that she was very naive when she signed the non disclosure agreement, without legal advice and obviously wasn't enforceable.
However I disagree with Mike Rinder's point that she is owed a debt of gratitude.
I hope she finds a way to cope with her fibromyalgia either medically or by whatever makes her feel better, and while I wish her the best, I don't feel that she deserves hero status.
arcxcauseblows
Patron Meritorious
That filled in a lot of gaps I had in that story
She helped get the reform momentum going in a very specific way, just simply quote lrh, and that works for any argument because he contradicts himself so much
She helped get the reform momentum going in a very specific way, just simply quote lrh, and that works for any argument because he contradicts himself so much
Anonycat
Crusader
Yes, I gather her research was done by reading at websites which are not science-based, but cater to the alt/no-PhDs-allowed crowd. I haven't read the book, nor will I, but I'd expect it to be gleaned from places like Natural Cures dot com. She could be doing worse in her transition to reality, though.
Boson Wog Stark
Patron Meritorious
Fascinating, Mike's writeup. Too bad he didn't spill a little more about the settlement -- one year in lovely (and remote) Guadalupe with another two out of the country -- but maybe he didn't know the details, or wouldn't want to get Debbie in trouble over them if he did.
I've taken some potshots at Debbie but as far as her taking the settlement when she did, I would have done the same had I been in her position, and I always thought what she did was fine, given the circumstances. She could have ended up destroyed and destitute, crushed by a relentless onslaught of crap from CoS. I'd rather see the cult pay out than do that to people. So it's a little touching that she was confused about what to do, but that Mike and Marty advised her to do that. They would have. LOL.
However, as others have suggested, I'm a bit put off by the 17 years holding a job most others, even some pretty odious individuals, no doubt, couldn't stand for more than a year or two at most. But if she wants to throw herself into fibromyalgia now, with similar fervor, sounds fine to me. So a few of the details in Debbie's story as told by Mike, made me feel even softer towards her and what she went through.
Pretty ironic that she was not dissuaded by a visit to the hole, in some semi-official capacity, but ended up there herself, along with suffering the mystery and misery of fibromyalgia while presiding over the mecca of technical perfection.
I've taken some potshots at Debbie but as far as her taking the settlement when she did, I would have done the same had I been in her position, and I always thought what she did was fine, given the circumstances. She could have ended up destroyed and destitute, crushed by a relentless onslaught of crap from CoS. I'd rather see the cult pay out than do that to people. So it's a little touching that she was confused about what to do, but that Mike and Marty advised her to do that. They would have. LOL.
However, as others have suggested, I'm a bit put off by the 17 years holding a job most others, even some pretty odious individuals, no doubt, couldn't stand for more than a year or two at most. But if she wants to throw herself into fibromyalgia now, with similar fervor, sounds fine to me. So a few of the details in Debbie's story as told by Mike, made me feel even softer towards her and what she went through.
Pretty ironic that she was not dissuaded by a visit to the hole, in some semi-official capacity, but ended up there herself, along with suffering the mystery and misery of fibromyalgia while presiding over the mecca of technical perfection.
Anonycat
Crusader
Fascinating, Mike's writeup. Too bad he didn't spill a little more about the settlement -- one year in lovely (and remote) Guadalupe with another two out of the country -- but maybe he didn't know the details, or wouldn't want to get Debbie in trouble over them if he did.
I've taken some potshots at Debbie but as far as her taking the settlement when she did, I would have done the same had I been in her position, and I always thought what she did was fine, given the circumstances. She could have ended up destroyed and destitute, crushed by a relentless onslaught of crap from CoS. I'd rather see the cult pay out than do that to people. So it's a little touching that she was confused about what to do, but that Mike and Marty advised her to do that. They would have. LOL.
However, as others have suggested, I'm a bit put off by the 17 years holding a job most others, even some pretty odious individuals, no doubt, couldn't stand for more than a year or two at most. But if she wants to throw herself into fibromyalgia now, with similar fervor, sounds fine to me. So a few of the details in Debbie's story as told by Mike, made me feel even softer towards her and what she went through.
Pretty ironic that she was not dissuaded by a visit to the hole, in some semi-official capacity, but ended up there herself, along with suffering the mystery and misery of fibromyalgia while presiding over the mecca of technical perfection.
Using an account I had made to be friends on Facebook with Debbie, we started exchanging messages and e-mails pretty actively. Her original e-mail was brilliant, and obviously a bit of a good troll. She said in the e-mail that she had no connections that weren't in Good Standing. But she knew I was anon. I told her. That she got an early retirement is okay with me. Everyone should get one. Also, I was the person who connected her with Marty. I mentioned that he'd received many thousands of dollars for her benefit. She knew nothing of it, and asked me for a link. That's how she and Marty got re-connected.
La La Lou Lou
Crusader
I think that vaccines cause Fibromyalgia.
Are you sure it's not chemtrails?
No, seriosly Fibro is real and looking at her in videos around the trial period I would say she really had it. Avoiding stresses, and eating well, having a good schedule and plenty of rest was what she needed. Fighting the cult was not going to help her and she wouldn't have done well under that kind of pressure. It's not ''all in the mind'' or pure mumbo jumbo. I know three people with the condition, two still working and one retired. It's not a box of choclits.
However what I've seen in her book contents page does seem to be not be science or evidence based, but based on the 'evidence' of the internet sites that suggest some quite sensible things like resting, don't drink too much caffeine or booze, eat too much sugar or carbs, take things that help your immune system and avoid getting over tired or stressed.
But if massaging with rosemary oil makes you feel good, or soothes your tense muscles that cause aches and pains, well then it helps doesn't it? I always say if you're going to use a placebo make sure it's strong enough.
Billy Blinder
Patron with Honors
there a couple of vids of her during that time. IIRC, she signed the non disclosure agreements (upon leaving staff) because the COS (DM) was literally sucking her soul out of her, she was a mess, broken and beaten down, and she said she would have signed anything to get out of there. I believe she didn't even want to except the $5000 dollar serance pay, I forget the exact dollar amount, but they made or talked her into accepting the money, this vid was the church lawyer named Able, IIRC, who is now dead, thank you very much, you fucking asshole church lawyer, forgiveness, none from me you dick Able, fuk'in dicks they all are, those damn fuking dickhead lawyers working for the fuck'in COS.
Edit: I looked up on Google the interview, here it is, it's Abelson, and fuk you Abelson.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBrElaQZSL8
Another edit, she did accept the check and it was for $50,000
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Lone Star
Crusader
[STRIKE]I'm glad that Mike Rinder shared his experiences with Debbie and in so doing dispelled some myths and misconceptions surrounding her settlement. At first I was not happy with her taking the settlement, but over time I came to accept it and understand it. Now I totally understand and agree that it was the right thing to do.[/STRIKE]
In reality Debbie Cook and her famous midnight email is the reason I ended up joining ESMB in the first place. I can't believe it's been over three years now.
EDIT: Struck the first paragraph because now I'm not so sure that Rinder is being totally honest with his "recollections", or spin, or handling, or whatever. Or he may be telling the absolute truth. I just don't know. Probably never will.
In reality Debbie Cook and her famous midnight email is the reason I ended up joining ESMB in the first place. I can't believe it's been over three years now.
EDIT: Struck the first paragraph because now I'm not so sure that Rinder is being totally honest with his "recollections", or spin, or handling, or whatever. Or he may be telling the absolute truth. I just don't know. Probably never will.
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degraded being
Sponsor
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WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
A little bit late with the life raft, wouldn't you say??
WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
A little bit late with the life raft, wouldn't you say??
WTF??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Terril park
Sponsor
The Israeli Dror centre, the south South African "back in comm" people
Wendy Honor freedom medal winner and many on Mikes blog and here
were influenced to leave CO$ because of her mail and that is not
a complete list. When you havce done better it would be interesting to hear
your criticism of Debbie.
BunnySkull
Silver Meritorious Patron
FM is generally considered by many doctors, not all, to be a psychiatric/ psychosomatic type of illness. I'm sure their are cases of FM where there is a real underlying physical problem, but for the most part it would be better treated by a psychiatrist than a MD. The problem is that FM sufferers get so enraged or offended when this is even suggested rather than consider it a very real way they may get the right treatment and relief. Saying a illness is psychosomatic rather than physical doesn't mean the pain isn't real or the person isn't suffering, it just means the treatment approach needs to be different.
I think Debbie points to a perfect case of FM being psychological in nature. Debbie was under INCREDIBLE stress, endured mental torture - it begs to reason that such conditions would lead to symptoms manifesting in some physical way because it was literally destroying her. She's lucky the stress didn't cause something even worse. I think stress, crisis and severe anxiety triggers "FM" type symptoms in some women. (And it is mostly women who are FM sufferers)
Maybe it's because in the back of their minds there is some shame in having mental health issues or even more likely because people are sympathetic and understanding of physical pain but, can be dismissive of mental anguish. I don't believe most of the FM sufferers are even consciously aware of mental component or basis and that's why they get so offended at the suggestion of it. But psychological pain or issues can become so all encompassing that it can manifest itself with physical symptoms. Most people are comfortable discussing physical pain, and physical pain usually means those around you start trying to care and help you (you get to rest more, people help with chores and other responsibilities, time off work, etc..) which is exactly what people experiencing difficult mental stress need anyway - so in a sense it's a way to get what your body and mind need without stigma of "mental health" attached to it.
A few years ago I knew several people who had FM diagnosis, or self-diagnosis of FM. Knowing them all fairly well, two I would have said had serious issues with depression and anxiety and the third had addiction issues and grabbed on to FM as a means to try and get every doctor in 100 mile radius to prescribe narcotic painkillers to her. Anti-depressants and a positive change in living situation (and distance from some grief and tragedy in their lives) ended up "curing" the two I mentioned of their FM. It seems like the same was true for Debbie, the stress of being at INT and the stress of the lawsuit both are pointed to as times her "FM symptoms" flared up. I think getting away from the terrible mental duress of Scientology and Scientology harassment, along with better living conditions (rest, good food, no constant demands for "production", generally caring for yourself) cured her of FM - in fact I'd say Scientology was the cause of her FM and getting away from it was the cure, but I guess that wouldn't make for a good book on FM since it's very specific to her situation and wouldn't help sell anything either.
Where is my criticism? I suggest that many people took notice because of her.
Also, why are you making a personal remark, i.e.'when you're done better?' Bit Hubbard isn't it? I merely stated that I disagree with MIKE RINDER'S assessment that she is owed a debt of gratitude.
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