Disconnection Cancelled

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Megalomaniac, Dec 8, 2008.

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  1. I thought it was fair use, too. The quotes you used were very relevant to your letter and oddly enough were those things that I took on board as my stable datums in Scientology. Probably why I'm a critic now, too! The chronic violations of, that is.

    It's real easy to fix up the readability, BTW. Just copy paste it into a word processing program such as Word and it does it all for you. Then link to that.

    From what you have said so far, I think you are going to be a very interesting and provocative contributor on this board.
     
  2. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac Silver Meritorious Patron

    Chinese School Cancelled / Disconnection Cancelled

    Thanks Panda. Well, it's cancelled for me. And the only reason disconnection happens is 'cause you agree to it. I guess that was another point. What are they going to do: sue you for harrassment because you sent a box of chocolates? "I can't make case gain because my son keeps saying he loves me. Help!"

    ------

    That's funny, I tried to do Chinese School at work one time. No way. It was a Chinese guy that wouldn't go for it, too.

    Well, I'm hoping Once Bitten will lead us. But, yeah, no org board.
     
  3. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Welcome Megalomaniac! :thumbsup:

    I too had a problem with your thread title, and being a bit gun shy of late, I wasn't willing to be sucked in yet again. :duh: :coolwink:

    Well done on putting it all out there! :D

    Cheers,
    Carmel
     
  4. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac Silver Meritorious Patron

    problem with thread title

    You guys have been so supportive! :hug: :grouphug:

    I was a bit uneasy with the title myself. But I want to make it be true.

    Look out, another Mega post coming up ... :blah:
     
  5. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac Silver Meritorious Patron

    Petition to Take Responsibility

    After a fitful few hours of sleep, the alarm woke me this morning. For some reason the first sounds out of it were a Mexican song. "El Diablo, la verdad es", then the rapid-fire accordian: do-do-do do-do-do do-do-do do-do-dooooo-do.

    I pressed snooze. But the radio was telling me "the Devil, the truth is". True enough. Half the time, I'm worried about catching hell from OSA, for speaking the truth. Half the time, I'm thinking that they are twice as worried about me, or maybe 10x.

    Anyways, The night before, I hit upon an idea as insane as writing the open letter to Scientologists. The idea is to start a petition. Here it is, very unfinished, but I wanted to hear your feedback.

    (revised and re-worded so as to be inoffensive to the maximum number of Scientologists and ex-Scientologists)

    Is anyone still with me? I'll summarize the idea and make some comments.

    We give the crooks a break, give them some glimmer of hope that they can again walk free, knowing the damage has been made up as fairly as humanly possible. We take responsibility for our role in the mess.

    We far more rapidly achieve the goals of, say, letting the RPF go home for Christmas, and that sort of thing, the goal of getting OSA to quit harrassing -- all that kind of stuff. We relax. OSA relaxes. *I* relax. Anonymous takes off their masks. ChaoticPsychotic gets to visit her mom. We chill out. We communicate more. We get a lot more people out of hiding. A lot more information sees the light of day. A lot more friendships are restored.

    In other words, we start eliminating the FEAR from the situation.

    When I look at David Miscavige, at the bullying from OSA, at, well, all these destructive policies, I see fear. :nervous: :nailbiting: I think these guys are just shivering, or covertly shivering, looking for some way out. Not just you and I. Everyone right on up to the top. But some of them (speculation here) probably have too many crimes to even consider doing anything but try to hide the evidence. They have no hope. They are goners. So this maintains the suppression and the fear.

    Now, I'm guessing that you're guessing, that I really do work for OSA. I don't. But, I am looking out for myself. And I know that many of you are still anonymous, out of, I'm guessing, fear of OSA. This seems like something that might work for everyone, if we do it smart. Don't let anyone off the hook. Just a bit of help and compassion.

    These guys are just people. The big bully thugs. The screaming executives. They're just people. How many of them got into this with the goal of suppressing people? They probably want more than anything to join the human race and just be able to talk. :bigcry:

    sorry, I'm getting sappy.
     
  6. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac Silver Meritorious Patron

    revision to make acceptable

    When I say revise to make acceptable, I don't mean to water down the important parts. I mean to use words that are not offensive. I mean to say things like such-and-such abuse was reported by XYZ and 50 other people, rather than such-and-such abuse really happened (without the source). Scientologists still in would agree that the abuse was reported much more readily than they would agree that the abuse in fact occurred.

    Maybe that doesn't matter, too, because there could be different versions that ended up with equivalent agreements.
     
  7. Pixie

    Pixie Crusader

    :omg: ... er... you ok WO? :unsure:
     
  8. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I think all those quotes at the bottom of the letter exceed the boundaries of fair use. But it is not always cut and dried, and is the province of judges and court cases to make a decision. The general law on fair use is discussed in this Wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

    Personally I don't really care what happens with Mac and his website if he wants to quote great chunks of LRH stuff. It's his affair. But I do care about ESMB, and I consider quoting all those pieces in full could be considered a violation of the law, thus exposing Emma and this board to risk. Remember OSA uses the law to harass, and winning a lawsuit is often no more than a nice bonus.

    Paul
     
  9. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Well, yes DOF.. But we should not be afraid to quote the old bastard (Hubbard) or the cults policies. Ie: We should quote as needed, right up until we get a Kobrinogram.

    I think the law requires the cult to notify about a fair use violation. And that if the offending text is then removed or amended, then they have no complaint. I might be wrong..

    Heh.. I note that the fair use laws forces us to quote only snippets. And that the scilons then qritisize us for quoting out of context!

    Anyhow.. What comes to mind for me is the condition formulas. Those formulas are a direct threath to me personally (and every other disaffected scilon), to steal my property, cheat and/or defraud me, harras me and ultimatly 'utterly destroy' me.. The wording of the latter threath is obvious. Means kill me.. Only Hubbard prepared for plausible deniability. And there's a lot of other cult policy reiterating the threaths and describing methods.

    That's a large group of organized religious zealots threathening me!

    I'm not in any way willing to let them deny me to document their intents. They might force me.. With the fair use laws.

    Another good example is the video from an IAS event where DM incites hate and violence towards the 'evil psychs' with graphic handgrenades for emphasis (Video removed from YouTube!). Or when he rejoices over 'Shooting down SP's like ducks in a pond'.. And we have all those scilons cheering..

    This stuff was not intended for the public, and the cult did get the videos removed from the internet. But, by damn, the public needs to know about this!

    :yes:
     
  10. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Agreed Schwimmy, but one can make a point by summarizing and giving reference to, without putting ESMB in jeopardy. It's a bitch, but we'll do more good by taking heed of advices in regard to all this. The CofS would take any opportunity to shut ESMB down - it would be foolish of us to give them the opportunity, don't you agree?
     
  11. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    Certainly! - Hmm.. What irks me in this particular instance is this: Megalomaniac DID state source of each quote! - No HCOB or PL is quoted in it's intirity, except the Code of Honour and the Creed.. (And frankly, I can't see how they can complain about that) There are many quotes, each one an official 'policy' of Hubbard and the cult, that the cult itself blatantly violates every 5 minutes or so. And each quote is 'documenting' the arguments in the letter itself...

    So.. I think that fair use is followed to the letter really.. I don't recall anything about restrictions to the number of quotes.

    Megalomaniacs letter on Earthlink/ Dear fellow Scientologist

    :yes:
     
  12. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Again I agree. However, I don't see how they CAN or DO get away with most of the stuff that they often bloody well seem to. They have this knack of making something out of nothing when it suits them, so I'd err on the side of caution in regard to keeping in the legal ruds on ESMB.
     
  13. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    Mac, Your PETITION TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE CRIMES AND WRONGDOINGS OF SCIENTOLOGY idea needs it's own thread.

    Just cut and paste your post #65 from here into a new thread so that it doesn't get lost in the Disconnection Cancelled discussion.

    I haven't quite decided about the Petition but I have decided that like your approach and attitude. :)

    Cheers, Panda.
     
  14. tikk

    tikk Patron with Honors

    re fair use

    I enjoyed your letter a great deal Mac, it's interesting and you've given everyone a lot to chew on.

    Just some musings as to fair use, which came up in the context of this letter: I don't believe the inclusion of LRH quotes in Mac's letter amounts to infringement even though there's some ambiguity as to whether they exist in the context of the letter or whether they're merely appended at the end, apart from the letter (the former scenario lends itself more favorably to fair use). Courts will often look to whether a particular use is "transformative" in deciding fair use, and a good example of transformative (and thus fair) use is Dave Touretzky's presentation of the OT III material, where his own commentary is presented amidst and throughout the OT III work, commenting directly on the OT III material. Mac doesn't quite do that here but the works are referenced in and germane to the letter. I think some judges would find it transformative and some wouldn't.

    But even if one concedes that Mac hasn't transformed the LRH works, his use probably still amounts to fair use because, despite that he includes many LRH works, the works aren't from one source (as opposed to Source, no pun intended), and while I haven't looked at each individual work, it appears that they're mostly smaller portions of larger works. The other fair use factors favor Mac as well, as Mac is obviously not profiting from his use, nor is his use depriving Scientology from profiting from these works--i.e., they're not substitutes for the 'real thing'.

    Of course, analyzing fair use questions as if one were a judge is nearly meaningless in the real world, where rights holders, and especially Scientology routinely overreach in claiming rights violations because of the extreme unlikelihood that the accused will defend themselves, as a simple matter of economics. Bluffing works. That said, I've noticed that over the past decade, Scientology has gradually rolled back their threshold as to what they consider a rights violation, or at least what they're willing to claim is a rights violation. They'll still make frivolous claims but have become more selective as to when they'll make them. I don't see this as one of those times.

    As for ESMB's liability, I don't think there's much cause for concern as exscn.net is not hosting the content, Earthlink is. True, the DMCA does include linking to infringing content as violative, but it's rarely used. Also, the DMCA safe harbor mechanism would require Scientology to issue a takedown request to the ISP, so exscn.net would have an opportunity to decide whether to remove the link to the allegedly infringing content if it came to that.

    Btw, I'm not anyone's lawyer here and the above is not legal advice.
     
  15. Megalomaniac

    Megalomaniac Silver Meritorious Patron

    Fair Use

    Paul, you are helpful.:yes:

    I think my usage is a fair use, based on the purpose it serves, the quantity, and the impact on the market of the copyright owner. But, I don't mind at all being over-cautious :unsure: here on ESMB as this message board has been a great help to me and others. My own website is expendable. Plus, this letter seems to be spreading around.

    Thanks for the good information, as always, Paul!

    -mac
     
  16. crm1978

    crm1978 Patron with Honors

    I bet all of those ex earthlink customers are so impressed by LRH admin tech that does such a great job of running earthlink .Clearing the planet can'nt be far away !
     

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