DM's "New" Quad Grades

Discussion in 'David Miscavige and Current Management' started by Crusty Old Bastard, Sep 5, 2007.

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  1. Dave's plans for the next Grade Chart changes?

    A friend of mine who lives and works in Clearwater has recently been telling me of rumors they have been hearing about "the next thing DM is working on." Granted these are rumors at this point only, and presented here for speculative purposes only.

    Firstly - Objectives are being GREATLY expanded. I know this is true as I am aware of several people recently in the Church who had to expand their objectives again, etc. But the new word out is that DM is looking at significantly increasing the number or hours spent on Obj's and also releasing more processes (culled from various refs) that are to be used. Whereas previously a TE of 1 - 2 intensives was given for Objs - TEs of 5 - 8 Intensives have now been seen.

    Secondly - There are rumors that DM is looking at "speeding up the grades" and "removing arbitraries". After piecing together some hints, it appears that DM is looking at re-instituting Quad Grades - the major grade quad process only, and having the rest of the expanded grade run only if deemed necessary. The irony is that if any auditor or C/S presented using Quad Grades rather than full expanded grades prior to DMs "recovery of this lost tech" they would have been shot from guns and declared so fast their spinning would instigate a hurricane. But if DM does it, then its recovering lost tech.

    Now, both these points I find interesting. On the grades matter - I can see it. In order to keep the "stats" of people on OT levels moving they need WAY more people moving through the lower Bridge. In the 10 years since the GAT they have rounded up pretty much everyone they are going to get onto the OT levels. Last I heard there were about 5,000 of the 10,000 they want on or through OT VII. The number of people moving up through Grades and NED is pitiful, so the solution is = lower the bar. Make it so you can get onto NED in a few intensives and then onto the OT Levels. And it makes financial sense too - someone on OT VII pays the same as all their Grades in a year to two, and they are on VII for many years, so this is more money for the Church. OT VIIs are the cash cows of Flag.

    Also, getting 10,000 onto or through VII along with the HUGE BOOMING and AMAZINGLY SUCCESSFUL IDEAL ORGS then allows management to say - LOOK! We've done it! There are SO many on VII now and these Ideal Orgs are so fantastic we can finally release IX and X!

    They have to release IX and X soon - the carrot has dangled too long as it is. And next year (interestingly enough) is the 20th anniversary of the Freewinds and it will be out of dry dock then - having been Ideal Org-ified. So a 20th anniversary release of IX and X seems to align with that as well.

    One final thought though - reviving Quad Grades will be the death stroke to training. Already practically no one trains. Co audits were abandoned even before the GAT really. So the very few people you have on training, those hoping to use it as the economical way up the Bridge, will adandon it for the fast, easy route of Quad Grades. And that will be the end of auditors - no one will be left to train - just a few doing it for elig.

    The only other option is to release NED as a co-audit. Like HSDC was. So you do the Quad Grades and then the NED course and co-audit. HSDC was incredibly successful. In the beginning it basically had no pre-reqes. Eventually BSM was added, but that was pretty much it. You could come in, pay your $500 and be co-auditing to Clear in a few weeks. Yep, WEEKS. TRs and metering, model session, ruds, etc. were all on that one course. It was extremely popular, everyone was an auditor and there was tons of co-auditing. And if you survey OT's an amazing number of them did HSDC - I would say 60 to 70% of OT VII and VIIs I know did it.

    I don't have a problem with Quad Grades in and of themselves - I always wondered why they were totally abandoned when you can still find references on them. But of course how the grade chart is rendered one decade to the next has always been an interesting study.

    Time will tell eventually, but I thought this might be interesting to think about.

    DM did say at an even last year (Auditors Day I believe) that the near future was going to hold "major changes on the Grade Chart from the bottom to the top." I distinctly recall that part of the event as the irony was just too stunning to miss. Perhaps some of these changes will be rolling out soon.

  2. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor


    I can tell you that we in Rons orgs UK, and I believe europe and Russia
    ( 60 odd FZ orgs) use the HSDC.

    The whole expansion into russia was the russians only having book one in COS, asking the FZ to come and deliver scientology.
    Which they did. The old co-audit HQS. :)

    In around 10 years they have people who can now give review on upper levels.

    They make around 40 class 5s a year.
  3. Emma

    Emma Mother of Dragons Administrator

    OH MY GOD!!!

  4. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

    I have some questions.

    You have to keep in mind that I am an ignoramus about a lot of the tech stuff.

    1) Why bother doing NED at all if DM has said that people don't go Clear on NED, and can only actually go Clear by being put through the Alternate Route?

    2) Is it possible DM's going to wait until these people are OT to decide they "need grades" and make them do their Expanded Grades at NOTs rates?

    3) If he's trying to speed people up the Bridge, why 8 intensives of Objectives?

    4) (This is not a tech question.) I read recently about seminars aboard the Freewinds. I thought it was already out of dry dock?
  5. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Well, he's going to have to redo the tech dictionary and re-define quickie grades or else remove KSW #1 from each course and/or revise it.
    I alswo heard that the grades were next to be re-done as well. As for the OBJ's, I have seen some marathon Book and Bottle sessions go 24/48 hours with minimal breaks and stupendous results. I don't think adding more processes is the answer to his problems, per se. And of course, since he never completed an internship, what the hell does he know?
  6. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    This is all amusing to me. I had dianetics before ned came out. Ned was supposed to speed up Dianetics. I also had expanded grades and expanded auditing like LX's, pts rundown, integrity processing and whatever else was being offered up to clear. I did spend a few hundred hours on Dianetics and the drug rundown. I did spend a lot of hours on the grades and the other. The point is, it was AFFORDABLE. They don't need to change the grade chart, they need to lower the prices so people can actually do it. And if I were going to take a PC all the way up starting from the bottom, I would take them the same way I went. I wouldn't take them on NED. I would have to take them the same way I went because I know that is what worked for me. I don't think overall people mind to spend time in auditing as long as they are winning. They mind spending time when the money is a ptp and the hours are running out with the credit cards.
  7. haiqu

    haiqu Patron Meritorious

    Stable Datum: The level is over when the EP is achieved.

    Quad grades vs Expanded grades? They're the same thing. You stop when the PC achieves the EP of the grade. No sooner, no later. As the PC's viewpoint changes you might run more processes on the grade later, but I wouldn't bother until after OT III and then it can be soloed anyhow.

    As for the comments about HSDC vs NED, both are valid. Both should be in current use. If Dianetics Today were revised to reflect the addition of Flow Zero, it would be the best, cheapest textbook-base auditing available. But I doubt that will happen, for PR and historical reasons, since I believe Capt Bill Robertson compiled it. The book was rarely sold actively, because Flow 0 got added in then NED superceded it.

    The only impediment to doing metered Dianetics at the bottom of the bridge, where it sat until 1979 or so, is that the auditor wasn't qualified to fly ruds (yes, I know someone above said they were, but not on the HSDC I knew). A Qual OK to Fly Ruds chit would solve that in a trice, or - as was suggested - add the model session and ruds to the checksheet. We used to have to get a student Grades auditor to do it when I was a student, which was nuts.

    TP: I didn't ever do the HQS course but once had a girlfriend who did it as her introduction to the subject, and she was very dedicated and swore by that course. Best value for money the orgs ever delivered, by all reports.

    As for the emphasis on Objectives, I'd say that's DM dramatizing his tone level - Controlling Bodies. :rofl:

  8. Lulu Belle

    Lulu Belle Moonbat

  9. mate

    mate Patron Meritorious

    I don't know about controlling bodies, but he is certainly into bodies. :eyeroll:
  10. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron

    This blew a lot of charge for me. About "old Dianetics" still being valid. I have a little horror story I have never dared mentioned. I will most likely get some negative feedback for posting it. I was sitting in an Org one night with a very well known, and very well loved Sea Org executive. He was on a mission and I had pushed him a LOT of power and this was no rinky dink mission. He leaned over his desk and looked at me and said, mind you, this guy had been in the Sea Org a LONG time...he said, "I think you are the only clear actually on the planet. If not, the clearest clear I have ever met."

    Every time I see someone that is "clear" posting on one of the forums that they had no benefit actually, it hits me me in some sad way and also like maybe I am in some nightmare.

    I had a reoccurring nightmare as a child, I would wake up. get dressed, leave the front of the house. All of the houses were the same. As I opened my door all of the others would step out at the same time. We would all leave our houses at the same time and start walking down the walkway at the same time. But midway down I got this nausiating feeling I was in a hall of mirrors. I would stop and sit down on my walkway to vomit while everyone else would continue to the end of the driveway and I was the only one out of this hall of mirrors.

    I have often wondered if the NED produced a different kind of clear, maybe one that was not stable.

    Some things do not make sense to me. Like, how could a person run dianetics after clear (I had zero resource there to pull from after clear).

    I mean, the leader of the Church, DM, targeted and attacked an RPFer with body guards looking on as he beat the shit out of this guy. This is not a clear.

    If the guy in charge obviously is not a clear why is he there? What is his motivation as he must KNOW he is not a clear.

    How can all of the staff put up with the madness if they are clear? How many of them are clear? Any?

    Hasn't anyone in the Sea Org read Science of Survival?

    Sometimes I think maybe only 5% of the population has a reactive mind and perhaps the value of Dianetics was overestimated.

    I really don't understand why it all made perfect sense to me and it all worked yet some think they were just under some power of suggestion.

    I don't even understand why it doesn't occurr to almost everyone that this is total magick practice.

    I really don't understand the Sea Org and what happened there, except that Hubbard maybe played some cruel joke putting militia as police with magick for his own amusement.

    But all of this is avenues of mystery that acts as a distraction and the more I think about it the more I seperate from my own luck.

    It is not easy to keep on walking and not look back.

    It is not easy to leave something you know for something you do not know.

    But I will tell you one thing, the Ron's Org people have another ladder down from this villiage to another that is very very interesting.

    It is hard to move on and leave people behind. That is why I post on these forums.

    But I know my time is coming, when I will have to walk on and not look back.

    I always hate to let go of the company.

    And as you probably know, the further up the bridge you go, the less company you have.

    I have recently wondered about the purpose of this planet.

    With my understanding of physics I always come to the same conclusion. Energy.

    As people decay as in a waste fill, they can be used for energy in other places.

    Just like we use energy here for our electricity, energy will be culled and utilized on other planets.

    I think the job to turn this whole society around was an unreal target.

    I think it's every man for himself now.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  11. The Oracle

    The Oracle Gold Meritorious Patron


    Am I the only person on the planet to figure out all of the auditing up to clear is just a contact assist with the bank?

    That is all that auditing is, is making the PC do a contact assist with the bank.

    I mean, what's so hard to see about that?
  12. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Interesting post (Again) CoB - thanks.

    Some rambling, disjointed, tangential thoughts (I'm not a morning person):

    I've heard of tech estimates in the range of 10-12 intensives for Objectives since the review. Actually, this may be along the right lines. 1-2 intensives sounds very superficial to me, although some may finish in that time.

    This is a big problem for CoS. Either you re-mortgage to get it in the HGC at the end of which you seem to be barely a "quarter" of the way to Clear, or you co-audit and it takes a small eternity.

    Objectives just aren't sexy to new blood. The pc is interested in significance and most will assume, rightly or wrongly, that all the significance comes from metered auditing, whereas objectives is about boiling off and getting more alert.

    Can someone explain the ability gained of this level? Is it over 50% of attention in the present time of the physical universe? 100%? Or is it the PC's consideration of being in pt of the pu? It has never really made sense to me.

    Reading this thread, one thing occured to me about the Grades and other actions - inadvertent evaluation. For example: "Most take 2 intensives to finish this but I'm on my sixth so I must have finished", or, "I really feel like I've finished but I've only done a quarter of the hours that most people do, so I can't have finished".

    Success stories can have a similar effect, e.g., "that guy can raise his eyebrows independently after OTII and I can't so I can't have finished".
    I wonder if this has been noted and is part of the reason success stories are so vague and bland these days - the published ones at least.
    My point is that PC's need to be hatted on potential eval/inval so they can spot it should it come up.

  13. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    That was some thoughtful post you did Illusioness! :) - The above looks like you think of entropy. I'm not an expert, but entropy is one way. Things decay, or the energy goes away. It'll not restore when gone. Albeit there's a lot of the kind of recycling you describe going on. That's before the energy is gone. - Ultimatly the intire universe will end. But it'll be here for some time yet. Enough time to use hubbardian figures..

    As for the SO missionaire who complimented your bright mind... Heh.. I could have come upon that idea.. With ulterior motives and all.. ;) Exept when I was in the cult any such thing was prohibited of course. And I was married too..

    Clear.. (I'm not.. Although I thought so for a short while) It's a very attractive 'state' when viewed to from below. To be much more intelligent and bright. Maybe never having problems understanding anything. To blaze though courses in astrophysics and advanced math.. Understanding everything. And then announce the Grand Unified Theory to the world.

    Didn't DMSMH promise clears in that caliber?

    Well, I have come to believe that clear and all the faboulous promises is just hype to lure me (and everybody) in to something else. I noticed that clears and OT's were ordinary peckerwoods like me. They didn't seem to be more intelligent or resourceful at all. They were happy for their wins though...

    Hmm.. While we're at it. Let me just corrupt some tech. - Reach and Withdraw! - I had a crashing MU on that 25 years ago. I don't even recall what the MU was. I recall the frustration from not understanding.. Never mind. I understand now!

    Ok! - There's some money in front of you.. You Reach and Withdraw!

    Simple eh? - If there's some more money you reach and withdraw those too. Put 'em in your pocket.. You just keep on doing that. Device technology to make Reach and Withdraw possible where it was previously not. This can be developed into quite some technology!

  14. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Supposedly I was clear-then not-then clear-then not. Then maybe, we'll see. In retrospect it was a moneymaking spin put on by the church, but the only emotion I carry now is shame that I allowed the self-pity to take those machinations seriously. I don't believe in states either, Schwimmel. A person is a person. If you have to be something elevated all it does is put you out of communication with the rest of mankind. It is like celebrity. To paraphrase Hemingway, "The OT's are different." "Yes they have labels."
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  15. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    he said, "I think you are the only clear actually on the planet. If not, the clearest clear I have ever met."

    What a life sentence to hand out! Are you stuck in having to be the clearest clear? Wins are the hardest thing to move on from, especially when heavily validated. Look at celebrities, the "OT's" of popular culture. Once adored, they crave it. Illusioness, best of fortune, but you might be better off taking up championship parcheesi.
  16. Vinaire

    Vinaire Sponsor

    Entropy is one way simply because it does not account for self-determinism. Entropy is one way only for totally mechanical systems.

    What is a Clear? To me it is one who can think clearly without outpoints in one's thinking.

    There are pearls encrusted in mud in Scientology. You just have to take the mud off to recover them.

  17. nexus100

    nexus100 Gold Meritorious Patron

    "What is a Clear? To me it is one who can think clearly without outpoints in one's thinking."

    Spoken like a true mathematician, Vinaire! That gives me a thought. Perhaps we ascribe to clear our personal goals. You admire clear thinking. I wanted to be free of pain. Others have their own definition. But ultimately clear is knowing you are clear, which is pretty subjective and except that it is a step in the process, not worth notice of a label. At least that's my opinion.
  18. SchwimmelPuckel

    SchwimmelPuckel Genuine Meatball

    You mean like when we (humans) bring order? - Reversing entropy some when building a house...

    But actually I suspect we're not reversing entropy in the grand universal scale. Energy there because of space and tempearture differentials. Expanding or contracting universe.. Maybe static? - Those things aren't even known. Too big for our feeble minds perhaps.

    When the universe was created entropy was (maybe or must have been) reversed? - The idea is fascinating.

    Heh.. By your definition I'm clear once in a while! :happydance:
  19. Tanstaafl

    Tanstaafl Crusader

    Good job you never worked on CCRD tech lines, Vinaire! :)

    So what are all the case and other factors that inhibit the ability to think clearly. How clear is clearly? Is clear important as a "base camp" on the way to the OT summit? What about the stability of the state?

  20. Snuffy

    Snuffy Patron Meritorious

    Don't you guys know anything? A Clear is "a being who no longer has his own reactive mind".


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