Doubt -- Gathering facts for actual evaluation

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by sheetmedal, Aug 8, 2008.

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  1. sheetmedal

    sheetmedal Patron

    This is a general listing of things I've noted down and confirmed for myself through the last 4-5 weeks of looking. A lot of this stuff is really easy to confirm. This is a very rudimentary list -- i.e., I haven't gone into great detail, as it is mainly for my own reference. I am trying to put together a solid package of info to show others close to me, once I announce that I want out.

    Tech constantly being changed.

    Contrary to statistics boasted at Scientology events, actual expansion is either nil or negative.

    No real improvements made by those who've done lots of Bridge. There are those who've done lots of processing who are not able. There are those who were able already and have done lots of processing and are still able. There are those who were able already and did training and processing and now are still able.

    Not being allowed to have any other opinion or look at the real activities / statistics.

    Not being allowed to see or hear any other opinion. Being told it is a high crime to do so.

    Confidential materials. The materials are kinda silly. People coming out and saying what the confidential materials are and the church and OTs denying it even though there is solid evidence contrary to their denials.

    Org's publics donating millions to purchase and renovation "ideal orgs" instead of the orgs just becoming successful and paying for better facilities.

    Several corroborated reports of physical/mental abuse at the Int level.

    Missing senior execs. Seriously - where the heck are they?

    Senior execs that have left the SO/Scientology -- Ronnie Miscaviage, Mike Rinder, et al.

    New OT VIIs and OT VIIIs that have left Scientology.

    Class VI OTs that have left Scientology.

    A celebrity - Jason Beghe - that did tons of training and processing and was referred to by COB as "poster child" for Scn - left Scientology.​

    I'd like others thoughts on this, and perhaps links to where the best sources of verifiable info are. Or just general comments -- whatever!

  2. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    Add to that, Jenna.. COB's own NEICE leaves AND speaks out about it publicly on TV! :thumbsup:
  3. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    Wow, and you don't even mention the scores of reports of people who were disconnected from as SPs, even though they were making case gain and upstat, on this very site.

    Or the complete failure of the Sea Org to maintain confidentiality of the OT Levels (so the rubes wouldn't find out it was bullshit before they were "prepped")
  4. sheetmedal

    sheetmedal Patron

    See -- I was hoping to get some additions to the list. Keep adding!

    Another one is people being declared SP who don't have any of the characteristics of an SP as defined extensively by LRH. I know this for a fact -- several people whom I've known personally have been declared SP. My personal observation is that they don't have any of those characteristics, nor does their SP declare cite those characteristics.
  5. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    Where it came from.


    What about a good hard look at the ‘Source’ of it all?

    I don’t suppose any rational person would expect Hubbard to be a perfect human being. But, when you find out about his 3 failed marriages (and denying one wife completely), numerous affairs, lies about his personal exploits, dabblings in black magick and drug use, he doesn’t seem very credible as the source of the solution to life, the universe and everything.

  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Add in something about the LIES told by official CofS spokesholes. I don't even need to get specific about it--find pretty much any public statement about anything controversial and see how truthful it is.

  7. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Ashlee Shaner
    Lisa McPherson
    Moxon's daughter
    Freewinds Asbestos
    Keith Henson
    LRH's Death (vistaril per the toxicology report)
    Extravagance at Int level for 1 exec
    "Gang Bang" Sec Checks
    Suspension of Auditors Code
    Re-definition of FN
    Confusion over Clear\invalidating the State of Clear
  8. paradox

    paradox ab intra silentio vera

    Services priced outside the range of most able people. An implicit redefinition of the word able to mean only $-making ability, particularly those elite at the top upper percentile of economic earnings. Personal income is used as the primary (only?) statistic for measuring personal ability. This is comparable to the stat push days when Gross Income was assigned to the org's Executive Director/Commanding Officer as their and the org's primary statistic.

    The stated purpose of $cn is to make the able more able. Yet the majority of the able remain "wasted" because it is impossible to reasonably, intelligently budget $cn services into their lives without crippling their ability to actually make a living and violating the ages-old principle in economics of spending less than is earned. "Doing" $cn services is unrealistically disproportionate and distracting with respect to the sum total of family economic dynamics.

    The only definitions for ability in the tech dictionary are (there is none for "able"):

    The "church's" use of personal income as the primary statistic for measuring personal ability is an incorrect statistic for measuring the VFP of ability. Operating off such a statistic makes the goal of personal ability "to acquire more money."

    Personal opinion: even the idea of rigidly statisticizing personal production, let alone putting it into daily practice, as a means of "steering" one's way through life and living is anathema to me.
  9. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    If I recall correctly, part and parcel of scientology doctrine has to do with the concepts/principles of both gradients and the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. Thus, to cut to the chase scene, quoting someone on the internet (perhaps Zinj): Lying is a Scientology Sacrament. Under the guise then of performing that distinctly scientology religious ceremony called: providing an acceptable truth to the public/world, it all makes perfect sense. Lol.

    My essential point being "OFFICIAL CofS SPOKESPERSONS" are being faithful loyal and true to SCIENTOLOGY DOCTRINE Paul, not to Church Politics.


    P.S. Good luck in your continued endeavors Sheetmedal. I am inspired by you.

  10. riptide

    riptide Patron with Honors

    Hmmm. Interesting. I was just getting ready to compile my own list and make it into an official statement.I agree with the above comments in addition, my own:

    The general PR stat of the Church has seen to have declined sharply.
    The number of OT's who have died in the last 5 years of cancer.
    Number of OT's who have left.
    # of new members on this board.
    # of negative stories on the net.
    # times a Scientologist cannot engage in an open conversation but instead "knee jerks" a canned retort from the data bank of his/her indoctrination.
    # of new starts in Div 6 in any org.
    # of Clears being produced.

    I could go on but I have to go work on my tan.
  11. sheetmedal

    sheetmedal Patron

    All good points that I agree with. Thanks for contributing guys! Keep going!
  12. sheetmedal

    sheetmedal Patron

    In the process of that right now, actually. The easiest one is his Naval record.
  13. sandygirl

    sandygirl Silver Meritorious Patron

  14. uncle sam

    uncle sam Silver Meritorious Patron

    To Sheetmetal

    Do my thoughts count-you only mention-recently trained and audited folks? I did up through OT7 and the "shsbc" plus numerous other specialized auditor training in the early 70's.
    For myself-I wanted what the grade chart said - that I could have. For awhile - I was simply "blown away" from the power processing for several months- Clear and the OT levels were very disappointing. I liked auditing others but it seemed to me no one was ever able to keep and maintain case gain. Certainly -you may accuse me of all sorts of outnesses. But-my experiences match up with just about everyone I've ever met who was both OT and highly trained. The rest of scientology becomes a mute point if "there is really nothing to be gained and kept from receiving the services offered". I wish from the bottom of my heart that scientology really worked. It didn't for me. Plain and simple -there is nothing to be gained except disappointment and heartbreak.
  15. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    Beautifully written.

    Thanks old friend.

  16. sheetmedal

    sheetmedal Patron

    I wasn't trying to exclude people, such as yourself, that had done training earlier. If anything, I would expect the earlier tech to be more correct -- more un-altered -- if any of it were correct. The point I was trying to make is that current management says that "it's all fixed now -- anyone who trained before and got messed up should come back and get the actual good stuff..." -- it's BS. People left Scn then -- and they still leave it now.
  17. sheetmedal

    sheetmedal Patron

    Oh wow! Six parts! I'll have to watch the rest sometime soon.
  18. gomorrhan

    gomorrhan Gold Meritorious Patron

    I never saw him as God, but I can understand how such an impression would grow on someone whose parents were scientologists: if they are bowing to Hubbard's judgment, and they rule your universe (as a child), then Hubbard must be God! Additionally, that would be reinforced by seeing busts of him everywhere and people deferring to his written word on every subject.

    Which part broke your heart? His bigness, his fatness, or his liarness?

    I felt betrayed, a bit, when I realized there were policies I was not privy to that were being operated on to destroy me, despite my adherence to the philosophy as I understood it.

    But he didn't break my heart. For that, it took divorce without closure because we couldn't talk, because supposedly I was SP.
  19. Mojo

    Mojo Silver Meritorious Patron

    That is a statement that begs for retraction Kevin.

    Insensitive to the point of emotional absurdity.

    Akin to asking a rape victim if she was most hurt by the rapist hair color, his complexion or his bad breath.

    In poor taste my friend.

  20. sandygirl

    sandygirl Silver Meritorious Patron

    Quote from Gomorrhan:
    :dieslaughing: :dieslaughing:

    But seriously, I was raised to beleive he had the answers to everything!!! We wrote to him as children, when my mom was sick she carried his picture in her pocket everywhere. Sounds corny but we really believed in his greatness. I would never have thought that he would lie about his marriages, treat his children soooo badly, overboard people who were his loyal followers, love$$$ more than people etc.

    One thing he said holds true: Betrayal in the form of "help" are some of the worst incidents on the track.

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