Each Scientologist to his/her own personal bubble?

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by guRl, Apr 4, 2017.

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  1. guRl

    guRl Patron with Honors

    Hi everybody! It's been a while since I've asked the board one of my GuRly-inquisitive-minds-want-to-know questions about the culture of Scientology,
    so here I am now with a new such question!

    Since having a couple of Scientologist friends, and after reading and listening to so many stories by Ex-Scientologists, I came to realize something.
    It seems that not only do Scientologists generally live in the Church-bubble as a community- they also have individual bubbles for each of them, isolating them from one another, and not just from the "Wog World".
    Now, obviously we know that a Scientologist is never allowed to discuss his/her "case" with another fellow Scientologist, and that the deep indoctrination teaches the individual member to doubt him/herself, and never the Tech- meaning that if anything goes wrong for the member, he/she would assume it's because of a poorly executed connection with the body of the Tech on his/her part, rather than a fault with the body of the Tech itself.

    -Fascinating how the Tech becomes an absolute frame of reference, but I digress-

    Anyway, what I came to realize is that this way of operating (mentally) in life, puts the Scientologist in a continuous state of detachment. Not only would it be the emotional general detachment led to by perceiving negative emotions as inherently "abberated", and not only would it be (especially from Staff and SO members) the detachment from whatever it is that's really happening in the world -
    it would be a detachment in a broader sense, of not being able to fully grasp as well as experience another person, thereby grasping and experiencing the relationship with said person.

    It's actually pretty ironic- Scientology encourages a degree of cancellation of the individual self for the needs of the group, and the camaraderie and community sense are indeed a very powerful factor. But on the other hand, the actual INTEREST that I sensed from Scientologists who might be good friends with one another or family members- that interest just isn't.. alive. Isn't completely genuine. The Scientologist would be happy for someone holding a cool certificate, but I suspect he/she actually wouldn't be able to care all that much. I did get to see Scientologists behaving overly enthusiastic (god, was that annoying), but it was obvious that this enthusiasm was fairly artificial. This frantic enthusiasm didn't come from a genuine intention to make other people happy and lift up their moods, or to express anything real.
    It felt more like "I'm so happy! Ha ha! I'm the best ever, lick my shoes you peasants, ha ha! Can everybody see that I'm doing really well?!? Dare to think otherwise and I'll punch you in the face, ha ha!"
    Other times I got to see Scientologists in more 'balanced' moods shall we say, but then they would be more subdued and awkward, with the occasional extreme and aggressive outburst. Again, not just towards Non-Scientologists, but also towards their fellow members.

    I should mention that the few Scientologists I know are mostly 2nd gen, which makes it all the more rooted deep in their psyche I guess, with lack of other references. Also, obviously this theory would apply in different degrees (if that), depending on the person and circumstances and his/her unique experiences in the Church.

    TL;DR - It seems to me that each Scientologist is living a conflict of deeply caring for the planet and his "3rd and 4th dynamic" on one hand, and of being very self-centered and detached from other people - including fellow Scientologists - and not being able to fully experience relationships and different personalities and interests of other people - including fellow Scientologists - on the other hand, because of the way the Church shapes his/her life and way of thinking and feeling.

    I would love to hear any opinions on the matter :)
  2. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    Your post here is full of generalisations that have some
    truth but also much untruth.

    As a scientologist I have commented on my case here.

    I detailed how I didn't doubt myself but the qual division
    and persuaded them that they were incorrect.

    OK I'm not a common or garden scientologist.

    I'm independent ... and free.
  3. Hypatia

    Hypatia Pagan

    I quite liked GuRl's post. I realize nutshell approaches don't pertain to everyone but I think there's some really good and thoughtful analysis there.
  4. JustSheila

    JustSheila Crusader

    GuRi, I agree with Hypatia. You've put a lot of thought into your post and some of it rings true, but not all of it.

    Although, as you say, scns and FZers tend to shut out anything negative, what doesn't ring true for me is that I personally find some FZers are very good at expressing genuine interest and enthusiasm in subjects they like. The trick seems to be finding a common interest and unfortunately, that common interest usually has to be something at least vaguely related to scn or sci-fi. But not always.

    Forget COS scns - they just can't seem to stop trying to recruit you into it. It's like an obsessive compulsion. They don't even see you as a person, you've got a target on you and they are trying to hit the bullseye to find some button, somewhere, somehow, to get you to respond positively to scn and it's just RELENTLESS! Some FZers are like that too, but others aren't.

    Some subjects I've had wonderful, open conversations with FZers on are astronomy/constellations, historical periods (i.e., Renaissance), nature, biology, long and short term planning and projects, art, music, philosophy and sometimes even certain Psychology theories.

    The downside is if they're not interested, the emotion is fake. It's the old fake tone scale or ARC stuff, where they put that TRs wall up rather than try to get involved with something outside their zone.

    So yah, it's limited, but I don't think as completely limited as your post suggests.
  5. arcxcauseblows

    arcxcauseblows Patron Meritorious

    this is educating for me I never inspected it in that way, individual bubbles within a collective bubble, of course, controlling people from within their own heads and from the heads of others, catering to self determinism and using it to collect money

    i always thought it was extremely stupid and contradictory to have a policy that nobody can talk about their case outside $$ auditing $$, always thought confidentiality was stupid too

    the church replaces every piece of your life till you have no life, you essentially can't share feelings with your family and friends whose support can be more uplifting and "pro survival" than someone who begs for money to hear your secret confessions, problems, etc.

    like most of his self contradicting babble this one goes straight against his incessant speech about raising confront, raising communication, not cutting communication, the arc triangle

    hubbards core tech and policies are proving to be unworkable huge mistakes, scrap it all and start over
  6. Gib

    Gib Crusader

    Hubbard said contagion of abberation was thru engrams.

    I think contagion of abberation is thru ideas presented by the author of his idea. For example the idea that the earth was flat. It took a long time for that idea to be proved false. One has to remember that, that idea of of the earth being flat, why there was no instant communication at the time, it took a long time for people to think about about it and question it and compare notes.
  7. Out/Int

    Out/Int Patron with Honors

    I loved this post and totally agree with you. I am working very hard at deprogramming myself from the "loaded language", tech and implants from L Ron Hubbard. It is hard work. I am educating myself as to how cults work to manipulate and trap. That is so theraputic.

    I am able to notice exactly what you are talking about. Some folks can't cuz they have not deprogrammed themselves from the cult think, tech, implants and lies from L Ron Hubbard.

    I notice my ex Scientology friends have this detachment...you speak of. I have some of it too - and I tend to want to be alone...not really liking people anymore. In the cult - the "tech" destroyed my ability to just love everyone .... I looked at people like they were wonderful and interesting and always something about them to like. The cult destroyed that ability with that fucked up Tone Scale. By the way - Trust - is NOT at the top of the Tone Scale.

    The waxing enthusiasm in the cult is all fake and forced. It is used to manipulate you so you can give the staff stats.

    Scientologist's are just like wogs - they just suppress their emotions and those emotions come out sideways and they channel it towards "The Psychs" and SPs. Scientologist's are fighting a battle of long duration - swinging at windmills.

    Scientologist's in the cult are jealous if they don't have the money to get up the bridge...then they join staff to get their Bridge and get snaked and conned out of years of their lives not to mention they get nothing back in return... no bridge, no money, no IRA, no ack.

    My personal experience is Scientologist's make some of the nastiest and uncaring friends you will ever have. Ex Scientologist's are not capable really of being a good friend unless they fully deprogram. I do find both to be unreliable and self centered.

    Wog's make the best kind of friends. Especially Wogs who stay away from cults.
  8. Enthetan

    Enthetan Mutant

    Yes, the case of "Too busy caring about the world, to have time to give a damn about any particular person"

  9. guRl

    guRl Patron with Honors

    Thanks for your input JustSheila!
    Yap, I guess I should have been clearer in my initial post, as I was referring only to CoS Scientologists (because these are the people I have had experiences with). It's great to hear that FZer's are generally more open, living and content :)
    I of course try my best not to generalize this way or another anyway- rather, I'm trying to process the experiences I sometimes have with the CoS Scientologists (and Ex-Scientologists as well, excluding FZ or Indies) I know.

    Definitely! There seems to be something that is becoming a bit unnatural or just a bit distorted or awkward in the way Scios communicate and perceive their surroundings and people. Again, to a diversity of degrees.

    Oh yes, whenever I'm around Scientologists, they seem to be a living walking paradox. Everything that you've described here from yourself and the people you knew, certainly rings familiar with me. Yes, I have some friends from the Church, but they are so different than my other friends. For starters, they have a hard time BEING friends, and it seems like they struggle, and they try, and they have huge hearts, but at the same time they're constantly going against themselves in some way. It's like having a few people in one person..
    I can't even imagine how difficult the deprogramming process must be- good for you!! :cheerleader:
  10. guRl

    guRl Patron with Honors

    Amazing, I've always thought about this song in regard to Scientologists!..
  11. Out/Int

    Out/Int Patron with Honors

    Good points here. Yes - the Scientologist, living a double life, creates or mocks up a - "split personality." They live double lives. Those that don't have "family" in - like parents, aunts, uncles, cousins...etc...will always always always - present the Co$ on social media like a "normal church" doing "normal things"...

    Goes like this:

    $cientology $taff Member to Wog Mom - "Heh Mom (sends photos to Mom of 4 year old dressed up like Harry Potter) - here is little Johnny at our Church....we had a "Harry Potter" party at the "church"....:whistling: It was really fun and Johnny had a blast". Johnny sat in a closet with a 3 year old screaming out his lungs with poopy diapers cuz Staff Member parents have no money for diapers and he is a thetan - he should change his own diapers.

    Now - Here is the same $cientology $taff Member - Rhonda - (who grossed $1,453 last year total income from working 80 hours a week....52 weeks ) relaying THAT ^ information to another fellow $cientologist Public - Chrissy .. a "low toner" who lives at home with her parents after having an affair with the ED whilst she was on staff for a while...can't work cuz she got sent to the Psych Ward twice after auditing and $ex Checking...and is too fucked up now to hold down a job. .... she is 34 years old.

    "Heh Chrissy - here is Johnny at our Fundraising Event. We decided to really get on board and BE Scientologist's and help humanity. We were so fortunate to have the opportunity to save the planet from disaster and make planetary clearing a reality...so We "pledged "$90,000 for our new Civilization - the Ideal Org...." 'Isn't that THETA?"

    "Why don't you move up in status Chrissy...? After we pledged that $90,000 - hubby found $20 on the floor in the grocery store"...see - "Inflow = Outflow".....:eyeroll:

    Living like this for too long creates a split personality and it is a mother to get out of. I have seen many who never really recover from it. So sad :(
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
  12. phenomanon

    phenomanon Gold Meritorious Patron

    That was great. Thank you.
  13. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    great couple of posts....and don't be all sad....you are out. and getting further out.. and maybe the stats are down...at ESMB because....so many members are out and out..meaning.....they said 'f*)Y^ k it with the ESMB stats....I am done done done....and thus they go off fully free of the garbage ( not saying ESMB is garbage, no it definitely has its vaue) and are really recovering. :yes:
  14. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    Your observations and conclusions are very accurate. You prodive a thorough summary of the $cientologist bubbles and how it works

    Actually those bubbles you describes are something that is experienced as ''suffocating'' within the cult. This bubble is growing slowly, insidiously and becomes very heavy... and happend a time we are so deeply wrapped in the bubble (ethics, threats, fear, bridge to freedom)... that we loose any exterior viewpoint to see the bubble walls. The lack of freedom is so intense that this apparent degraded fearfull world becomes solid..like a truth...and we become obsessed by the bridge to total freedom. The universe of a $cientologist is very small..it's the universe LRH ruled for them..a paranoid distorsed universe and others $cientologist veil that one doesn't pup the bubble. A $cientology universe hold onto beliefs it does exist and is real....so it nedds other to believe in it too.

    They can't feel safe withouth putting them in a bubble to be protected from a pseudo dangerous exterior world and pseudo degraded wogs :confused2:

    Great post of you!
  15. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    As I've commented before, " independent " & " scientology " together strike me as an oxymoron of the largest variety of all.

    And, how anyone can feel they have any association at all with scientology and say they are "free" ? That surely expresses what is way beyond belief.

    How many scientologists are free ? None.
  16. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    They actually might be free of:

    - Being rpfed
    - having 3 regges knocking at the door at night
    - IAS donations

    (for how long time though..in the eventuality it grows as an organization ???)
    Does it sums it up???
  17. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I'm free of being RPFeed

    No reges knock on my door ever

    I've never donated to IAS.

    This will get you to most of an article I wrote
    published By the UK Charity "Inform" housed in
    the London School of Economics who collect info
    about cults and religions that the public can access.
    They have been traditionally very easy on Scn. I
    concluded that COS is in severe decline and detailed
    Debbie Cooks experiences in the "Hole" among
    other matters.

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...H#v=onepage&q=terril park scientology&f=false
  18. Gizmo

    Gizmo Rabble Rouser

    Terril, I have no choice to but to leave it at you & I have a vastly different concept of free.

    Free Love seemed very free - well, at least until AIDS killed off that concept.

  19. Terril park

    Terril park Sponsor

    I havn't stated what concept I have of free. So
    how do you know ours are different?
  20. Ogsonofgroo

    Ogsonofgroo Crusader

    Hm to OP/title question. I do not think it can be so easily explained, the bubble thingy-thing. I suspect this is an easier view to hold but more to the point it does, in a weird way, indicate how people can become divided from each other.
    In CoS a good part of the 'tech' was/is dividing people from each other, at least this is how I understand it, become a more defined 'us&them'. Mostly, I believe, there is a type of two-pronged approach, separate each person from the world and instill some level of belief into the 'seperatee' conducive to the multi-leveled plot of Hubbard. Create a space inside the person to be open to suggestion.
    Next, inject that person (once their credit is established) with a (limited) sense of empowerment over their own destinies.
    Repeat ad-nausae til there are results.
    Now, from my vision, there are several things going on initially, starting with the dis-association from the 'regular/wog' world. Then, based on a person's assets and the ease to pry them from it, an individual plan is created for each person in order to gain control of them. This means isolating folks into a place that may seem like its all part of the over-all Hubbard vision, but in fact is tailor made to each.
    Gah, sorry about the waffles, but to get down to it, the second stage, once a person is isolated from the world and any woggy influences, is to pump the living shit outta them, bleed them dry, and at the same time make them think they are gaining anything of value. ~Sell, sell, sell-suck, suck,suck, 'Your eternity depends on it!'
    Once Hubbard has you in his little world of bubbles you become not much better than a milk-cow in a pen. Cow really knows nothing, "Oh mooo! Food" etc.etc., 'Take my milk and 'Feed me Semore!'' So much happier cows when they get scratches behind the ears and kudos.
    I guess what I am trying to say, is that the 'bubble' is exactly what any good/efficient cult/group of cons, is seeking to accomplish, the prying away from not only your money, but your sanity too, 'they' need your undivided attention in order to better milk ya.

    Okay, okay, rank-mini-rant ends, guess its time for a taco :p

    I hope this makes some sense to ya'll, I don't always make sense but this is something I have given a tonne of thought to, just doesn't always come out the same, ergo quite a bit of drift. :whistling:


    PS~ Nice ta see ya back around Gurl! :heartflower: :beer:


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