Effort to Simplify

[me myself & i]

Excuse me if others have already stated this in this thread...but the thread is entitled "Effort to Simplify" and it is 114 pages long. Evidently something went haywire...

Ok, that's it. You for damn sure win the stating the obvious award of the year 'ThisFenceHurts'! Lol!!!

And that's one of the beauty's of life from my point of view! The beauty of the paradox. Delicious.

Now then, in order to actually receive the award you must first confess you can at least imagine the concept that 'simplicity is relative'. Deal? Yes?

Ok, it's yours.

Lol.
mm&i

 

[ThisFenceHurts]

Ok, that's it. You for damn sure win the stating the obvious award of the year 'ThisFenceHurts'! Lol!!!

And that's one of the beauty's of life from my point of view! The beauty of the paradox. Delicious.

Now then, in order to actually receive the award you must first confess you can at least imagine the concept that 'simplicity is relative'. Deal? Yes?

Ok, it's yours.

Lol.
mm&i

I confess that I can imagine that concept. I don't know if I picked up what you were laying down, but if so, good point! Hopefully progress is being made

 

[Vinaire]

Ok V, I've read the text (pages 1 thru 4) and here are my observations stated of course as pre-conditioned/influenced opinions.

I enjoyed the essay overall to begin with in terms of its relative swiftness at getting to the point. Which point I would call intelligent simplicty.

Consequently on the second read I was able to relax and focus more on the substance than the form of it. Though I will add regarding 'form' that a preface of sorts (just 1 or 2 lines) indicating the essays 5 excercises consisted of Thinking, Education, Experience and Fundamental Considerations approached from the idea of 'LOOK AT "WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING" THROUGH', would have been helpful to me personally in having an overall view (going in) of what I was about to read or discover. That of course being a personal preference of form, not substance.

In substance I came away with the feeling the essay is right on provided the audience is amendable or comfortable with the nomenclature of it. Which perception actually validates the substance of the course. From my point of view.

I found myself translating some of the text as I was reading it into words I was more familiar with that conveyed the same/essential underlying meaning of those words to me. For example I changed the words "LOOK AT" to "OBSERVE", and left the words "WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING THROUGH" as they were. The reason for this for me is the Observation of Thought for example is not equal to the Looking at a Body. A distinction which is perhaps altogether meaningless or inconsequential to the essay's intent, neverthess that was my experience V.

There is much more I experienced from the material and am willing to share it with you and all at another time, if you like. Otherwise overall I shall give it an A-... Lots of Laughter!

mm&i

P.S. of course 'action' is the key, not mere intellectual/theoritical gymnastics, as beautiful as they can be (i.e. 'do' the exercises, lol!)

Thank you for your feedback. I do feel encouraged. Of course, I shall be modifying the essay per the feedback I receive.

Have you read the first three KHTK essays? I would love to get your feedback on those too.

.

 

[Pepin]

A viewpoint is generally defined as a position from which something is observed or considered. One’s education, past experience, etc., seems to influence this position to quite some degree.

The process of looking through eyes starts with the impact of photons on the retina. This impact sends a signal to the brain. The brain then gives meaning to that signal.

LOOK AT “WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING THROUGH.”

.

Hi,
I like that you qualified one style of looking as "Through Eyes".

When I first tried my hand at blackjack many years ago, my eyes would see the back of the card like most other people did.
Then, I decided to allow for the truth. The truth that the card is actually more space than matter and as I did, I began to see the impressions of the ink show through the backside. At that point it was just a matter of counting the shapes.

When I told the dealer he had a six of spades under his ten, and I doubled, They asked me how I did it and I had to be honest. So I said " I could see through the card".

The pit boss held the card to the light to try and see through it, but his viewpoint was limited by common belief.

They changed all six decks in the shoe anyway.

 

[me myself & i]

Thank you for your feedback. I do feel encouraged. Of course, I shall be modifying the essay per the feedback I receive.

Have you read the first three KHTK essays? I would love to get your feedback on those too.
.

Not yet though I will do both (read them and offer my experiences/interpretations) at the earliest I can.

mm&i

 

[me myself & i]

Hi,
I like that you qualified one style of looking as "Through Eyes".

When I first tried my hand at blackjack many years ago, my eyes would see the back of the card like most other people did.
Then, I decided to allow for the truth. The truth that the card is actually more space than matter and as I did, I began to see the impressions of the ink show through the backside. At that point it was just a matter of counting the shapes.

When I told the dealer he had a six of spades under his ten, and I doubled, They asked me how I did it and I had to be honest. So I said " I could see through the card".

The pit boss held the card to the light to try and see through it, but his viewpoint was limited by common belief.

They changed all six decks in the shoe anyway.

If your willing Pepin I've got a round-trip ticket from wherever you are right now to Las Vegas (with me) tonight with a limo scheduled to pick you up at your door and deliver you back to your home when we're done, with a cool million bucks or more. And if you're not really into the money, which I understand, we can do it just for the fun of it and I'll suffer the burden of handling the winnings myself. Which won't be an easy job, but somebodies got to do it.

Lol. Kidding aside Pepin I do get the shock/joy of realizing/experiencing possibilitites the world assures us do not exist for us. And that's the punch line of your post for me.

Thanks for writing it. Nice post.

mm&i

 

[Vinaire]

This thread is now wrapped up for me.

Further effort to simplify shall be continued at

KHTK Essays

Thank you for all your participation on this thread.

Vinaire

.

 

[Vinaire]

This thread is started in an effort to simplify data that I come across.

Right now I am looking at OT III data of Scientology. At this level, the concept of BT (Body thetan) is introduced for the first time. I am looking at how this concept translates to simple understanding.

The first thought that came to my mind is that a BT is like a battery energizing certain circuits locally. These local circuits can be those of the body. So, we have lot of different “batteries” independently energizing different “circuits” of the body. Ideally, all these circuits are supposed to be energized by the individual (“I”). But “I” is not doing that.

If the above is true, then the questions are:
(1) What is nature of these “batteries”?
(2) How do they become part of local circuits?
(3) Are they phenomena of these circuits themselves?
(4) How do we reverse engineer this phenomenon?

It appears that handling of these local circuits may be compared to “laser surgery.” Anyway, my investigation continues.

.

I am looking at this thread again. It helped me to reach the simplicity of KHTK.

What I have learned is that Spirit, Mind and Body are three different aspects of the same system. The actual answer lies beyond this system. Spirit is not the last word. The last word is unknowable.

A "body thetan" is not something actual. It is a "construct" designed by Hubbard for a certain purpose. That purpose was "auditing beyond Clear."

To understand what is "auditing beyond Clear," one needs to understand what "Clear" is. The definition of "Clear" is very much muddled by Hubbard himself because he didn't want to confront the actual definition of Clear, which is as follows;

A "Clear" is somebody on whom the lower grade processes are not working, and nothing wrong (PTSness, SPness, etc.) can be found with him either, yet he is operating in a non-optimum fashion.

.


.

 

[Auditor's Toad]

Hey, in this effort to simplify there have been pages and pages and pages of figure-figure by the guy who set out to simplify. And then, dear Gawd, links to ever more figure-figure.

When will somebody tell this guy that "effort" is just that : effort

And for Christ's sake there is no way to simplify by figure-figure into complexities after complexities.

Cliff notes : Ya goin da wrong eay kid !

 

[Vinaire]

I am looking at this thread again. It helped me to reach the simplicity of KHTK.

What I have learned is that Spirit, Mind and Body are three different aspects of the same system. The actual answer lies beyond this system. Spirit is not the last word. The last word is unknowable.

A "body thetan" is not something actual. It is a "construct" designed by Hubbard for a certain purpose. That purpose was "auditing beyond Clear."

To understand what is "auditing beyond Clear," one needs to understand what "Clear" is. The definition of "Clear" is very much muddled by Hubbard himself because he didn't want to confront the actual definition of Clear, which is as follows;

A "Clear" is somebody on whom the lower grade processes are not working, and nothing wrong (PTSness, SPness, etc.) can be found with him either, yet he is operating in a non-optimum fashion.

.

For Hubbard, a person's case was completely resolved when the basic-basic (the most deeply buried engram) was found and resolved. At that point a person was supposed to become a Clear as defined in DMSMH. When that did not happen, Hubbard was facing a collapse of Engram Theory. All his life's work was about to go up in smoke. His theory was at the verge of being recognized as a FAIL.

Actually, his Engram Theory was a failure. Engram was a name given to layers of perceptions connected to a painful incident that were buried in the mind. These layers appeared compressed because of other layers stacked on top of them. If the mind were to be unstacked in the natural way, as in the Vipassana meditation of Buddha, this "engram" would have just come out in the wash with other layers. A person's progress would have been smooth in a steady way. However, Hubbard, in his haste, wanted to get to such layers connected with painful incidents first. He didn't care for the layers above them. Getting these layers out of sequence created some spectacular results, and this appealed to Hubbard, the showman. But the downside of this approach was that a resistance was created in the mind because of the bypassed layers. Hubbard viewed that resistance as "occlusion" and tried to overcome it by the same trickery that he used to bypass other layers to reach the engram. "Occlusion" increased as more and more engrams were reached and released. It was not long before one arrived at a point when no more engrams could be found because of the built up occlusion. Hubbard's approach.of bypassing layers in the mind was a self-defeating one, although it appeared spectacular and hooked people to his methodology.

The bottom line is that "Clear" was not a reality even when the supposed "basic-basic" was found and cleared according to Hubbard's Theory. This was a crisis for Hubbard, which he faced sometime in mid-sixties. He could not face the failure of his theory. He had to back paddle fast and come up with new processes, and OT Levels were born.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Hey, in this effort to simplify there have been pages and pages and pages of figure-figure by the guy who set out to simplify. And then, dear Gawd, links to ever more figure-figure.

When will somebody tell this guy that "effort" is just that : effort

And for Christ's sake there is no way to simplify by figure-figure into complexities after complexities.

Cliff notes : Ya goin da wrong eay kid !

Thank you, O Wise man!

My purpose of returning to this thread is to clean up all earlier "figure-figure."

.

 

[Zinjifar]

It was the same problem for psychoanalysis. Theory said that once one faced the 'trauma' it would go poof.

What actually happens in many cases is the 'search' becomes an obsession a'la 'Princess and the Pea'.

Zinj

 

[Vinaire]

It was the same problem for psychoanalysis. Theory said that once one faced the 'trauma' it would go poof.

What actually happens in many cases is the 'search' becomes an obsession a'la 'Princess and the Pea'.

Zinj

There are no short cuts to handling the mind. One has to reduce it layer by layer leaving nothing incomplete behind.

.

 

[Vinaire]

For Hubbard, a person's case was completely resolved when the basic-basic (the most deeply buried engram) was found and resolved. At that point a person was supposed to become a Clear as defined in DMSMH. When that did not happen, Hubbard was facing a collapse of Engram Theory. All his life's work was about to go up in smoke. His theory was at the verge of being recognized as a FAIL.

Actually, his Engram Theory was a failure. Engram was a name given to layers of perceptions connected to a painful incident that were buried in the mind. These layers appeared compressed because of other layers stacked on top of them. If the mind were to be unstacked in the natural way, as in the Vipassana meditation of Buddha, this "engram" would have just come out in the wash with other layers. A person's progress would have been smooth in a steady way. However, Hubbard, in his haste, wanted to get to such layers connected with painful incidents first. He didn't care for the layers above them. Getting these layers out of sequence created some spectacular results, and this appealed to Hubbard, the showman. But the downside of this approach was that a resistance was created in the mind because of the bypassed layers. Hubbard viewed that resistance as "occlusion" and tried to overcome it by the same trickery that he used to bypass other layers to reach the engram. "Occlusion" increased as more and more engrams were reached and released. It was not long before one arrived at a point when no more engrams could be found because of the built up occlusion. Hubbard's approach.of bypassing layers in the mind was a self-defeating one, although it appeared spectacular and hooked people to his methodology.

The bottom line is that "Clear" was not a reality even when the supposed "basic-basic" was found and cleared according to Hubbard's Theory. This was a crisis for Hubbard, which he faced sometime in mid-sixties. He could not face the failure of his theory. He had to back paddle fast and come up with new processes, and OT Levels were born.

.

Hubbard was furious with this state of affairs. He started to take out his anger on others. We see heavy ethics coming in at this point. In a way, Hubbard had to start building the bridge from the very bottom once again. He had to resort to fancy PR to hide his failure. He called his new bridge OT levels. OT I started with Objective type process. In fact any person could just start with OT 1, and that is why the ideas of Dianetic Clear and Natural Clear were introduced, which literally allowed "raw meat" to start at OT I.

In fact this new OT Bridge could simply have been a revision of the earlier "Lower Grades" Bridge. But that would have meant admitting to the failure of engram theory. So the new bridge simply got tacked on top of the earlier bridge as "Advanced levels."

What is new about OT Levels? It is the concept of "body thetan."

Why does one need the concept of "body thetan"? To run one's case on a via.

On the earlier Bridge, one was ransacking one's mind looking for answers because answers were insisted upon by the procedures. This gave some spectacular results, but it also beefed up the occlusion (resistance due to bypassed layers in the mind). The idea of "body thetan" provides a way out. It was not one's own case so one does not had to ransack one's mind. A BT was more like a true application of the earlier idea of the FILE CLERK. One now waited for the answer instead of searching for the answer (much like in KHTK). If there were no more responses the BT was considered to have vanished.

One was supposed to run lower levels on the BTs. This is similar to running these lower level processes with KHTK approach. So under this hoopla of OT, there was simply a fundamental correction. That fundamental correction is more directly addressed in KHTK essays.

The mystery of "Body thetans" is thus solved.

But the problem of bypassed layers was not yet solved.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Hubbard was furious with this state of affairs. He started to take out his anger on others. We see heavy ethics coming in at this point. In a way, Hubbard had to start building the bridge from the very bottom once again. He had to resort to fancy PR to hide his failure. He called his new bridge OT levels. OT I started with Objective type process. In fact any person could just start with OT 1, and that is why the ideas of Dianetic Clear and Natural Clear were introduced, which literally allowed "raw meat" to start at OT I.

In fact this new OT Bridge could simply have been a revision of the earlier "Lower Grades" Bridge. But that would have meant admitting to the failure of engram theory. So the new bridge simply got tacked on top of the earlier bridge as "Advanced levels."

What is new about OT Levels? It is the concept of "body thetan."

Why does one need the concept of "body thetan"? To run one's case on a via.

On the earlier Bridge, one was ransacking one's mind looking for answers because answers were insisted upon by the procedures. This gave some spectacular results, but it also beefed up the occlusion (resistance due to bypassed layers in the mind). The idea of "body thetan" provides a way out. It was not one's own case so one does not had to ransack one's mind. A BT was more like a true application of the earlier idea of the FILE CLERK. One now waited for the answer instead of searching for the answer (much like in KHTK). If there were no more responses the BT was considered to have vanished.

One was supposed to run lower levels on the BTs. This is similar to running these lower level processes with KHTK approach. So under this hoopla of OT, there was simply a fundamental correction. That fundamental correction is more directly addressed in KHTK essays.

The mystery of "Body thetans" is thus solved.

But the problem of bypassed layers was not yet solved.

.

Why did Hubbard make OT Levels confidential?

If you compare OT Levels to KHTK, what we have is the whole tech reduced to a simplicity at OT levels. Hubbard tried to hide this fact by trying to make it complex. He did not want this tech to come across as very simple because then it could have been copied very easily. It could then be used in a grass roots movement, which would not have made money for him. Hubbard was not really a Grass Roots Movement type of a person. "Clearing the planet" meant to him making a lot of money.

As the simplicity of OT levels could not be really hidden, Hubbard had to make them confidential to keep it under his control as proprietary. But that tech is now out as KHTK (at least the principles are). The whole Scientology Bridge can be run with KHTK approach in a Grass roots type of environment.

Imagine running the L's with KHTK approach.

.

 

[Vinaire]

Another question

(5) Are they real. If not, why am I studying them.

You were right, UM. BTs are not real. Thay are a construct out of Hubbard's imagination.

.

 

[Squeeze My Cans]

For Hubbard, a person's case was completely resolved when the basic-basic (the most deeply buried engram) was found and resolved. At that point a person was supposed to become a Clear as defined in DMSMH. When that did not happen, Hubbard was facing a collapse of Engram Theory. All his life's work was about to go up in smoke. His theory was at the verge of being recognized as a FAIL.

Actually, his Engram Theory was a failure. Engram was a name given to layers of perceptions connected to a painful incident that were buried in the mind. These layers appeared compressed because of other layers stacked on top of them. If the mind were to be unstacked in the natural way, as in the Vipassana meditation of Buddha, this "engram" would have just come out in the wash with other layers. A person's progress would have been smooth in a steady way. However, Hubbard, in his haste, wanted to get to such layers connected with painful incidents first. He didn't care for the layers above them. Getting these layers out of sequence created some spectacular results, and this appealed to Hubbard, the showman. But the downside of this approach was that a resistance was created in the mind because of the bypassed layers. Hubbard viewed that resistance as "occlusion" and tried to overcome it by the same trickery that he used to bypass other layers to reach the engram. "Occlusion" increased as more and more engrams were reached and released. It was not long before one arrived at a point when no more engrams could be found because of the built up occlusion. Hubbard's approach.of bypassing layers in the mind was a self-defeating one, although it appeared spectacular and hooked people to his methodology.

The bottom line is that "Clear" was not a reality even when the supposed "basic-basic" was found and cleared according to Hubbard's Theory. This was a crisis for Hubbard, which he faced sometime in mid-sixties. He could not face the failure of his theory. He had to back paddle fast and come up with new processes, and OT Levels were born.

.

You do quotes of your own posts?

WHy not just bump the thread

 

[I told you I was trouble]

deleted ...

 

[Vinaire]

deleted...

.

 

[Vinaire]

You do quotes of your own posts?

WHy not just bump the thread

The purpose here is to maintain the continuity of a series of posts when I cannot write them as a single post.

.