EX GO member posts that Scientology was connected to Zodiac Killings!!

Discussion in 'Office of Special Affairs' started by Lermanet_com, Dec 3, 2012.

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  1. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    I was searching for something else regarding Joe Lisa.. because he had called in to a radio show way back when maybe in 1995, and stated who he was - Joe Lisa and that He had been hired by Mary Sue (stress on Mary Sue as opposed to Hubbard)...to investigate the death of Quentin Hubbard. Notes on that are webbed on Lermanet.com HERE scroll down

    These are Joe Lisa's comments on Youtube LINK regarding

    Bruce McGregor Davis surrenders & arrest 12/02/1970
    cuntrytrashcuntrytrash • 3,065 views

    Joe Lisa:
    "You know Bruce Davis? You should feel lucky that you didn't end up dead in some downtown alley with 50 + knife wounds. I don't suppose he told you what he did with the bodys of Cindy Mellin, Robin Graham or Donna Lass, did he? Is there any way you could post that letter you reference or email ..."

    Joe Lisa:
    "Bruce Davis expalins how Shorty was Killed and his non- involvement (Charles Manson Family)"

    Joe Lisa:
    "It wasnt his mother or his sister or Manson who told him to surrender. It was Mary Sue Hubbard and Jane Kember - the GO - who ordered him to turn himself in. They knew the investigation would eventually reveal that Scientology was connected to the Zodiac killings, so when he went back to London after he killed Gaul and Sharp, Mary Sue & Jane told him to surrender. Anybody who tries to downplay Scientology's involvement in Manson & Zodiac killings is part of misinformation campaign."

    More on Manson and Scientology HERE

    The data that Scientology was involved in the ZODIAC killings and that Manson clan member Bruce McGregor David was ALSO a scientologist is news to me.

    door to Manson's Spahn Ranch house
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  2. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    It's been reported that Bruce Davis had a passing interest in Scientology, but there are no dox to support, AFAIK, that he was a Scientologist.

    "Davis was briefly suspected of being the Zodiac killer (a mysterious killer that terrorized California by committing several bizarre homicides in the 60's and 70's), but was ruled out as a suspect by the FBI."


    Joe Lisa is an interesting character who made alot of unsubstantiated claims & forwarded conspiracy theories over the years. According to Skip Press, he is now deceased.

    "In recent years, one of my kids was a good friend of a son of the late Joe Lisa, one of the Scientology “Guardian’s Office” operatives dispatched to Las Vegas to “handle” Quentin."


    There has been no evidence to show that MSH or Jane Kember ordered Bruce Davis to turn himself in. If Davis wasn't involved in the Church, why would be accept an order from MSH in the first place? It makes no sense.

    On the radio program, Lisa accuses Davis of killing known Zodiac Killer victims, though the FBI ruled him out as the Zodiac Killer.

    Why didn't Joe Lisa present evidence to show that he was right and the FBI got it wrong?

    I guess you can always write Bruce Davis and ask him if he was a Scientologist.

    Bruce M. Davis
    CDCR# B41079
    California Men's Colony
    PO Box 8103
    San Luis Obispo, CA 93409-8103

    In typical tabloid fashion, this guy titles his article.. "Bruce Mcgregor Davis Enforcer for the Manson Family and Zodiac Killer on Charles Manson’s Orders"..

    ...yet his own article doesn't provide any evidence of this.. only speculation & rumor based on his "reported" dating of Scientologists Doreen Gaul & James Sharpe (Davis was never arrested for the deaths of these two).


    Bruce Davis, by the way, was paroled in October, but Gov. Jerry Brown has 60 days to review the decision to release him, or deny him the parole. I suspect he will be denied. I'm sure Jerry Brown would not want his political record to reflect his approving the release of a Manson family member.

  3. He was paroled earlier this year...


    "Anger over decision to free Charles Manson's right hand man after 40 years in jail for double murder

    Bruce Davis, 69, was sentenced to life in a Californian prison in 1972
    Convicted in the murders of a musician and a stuntman
    Was not involved in the infamous Sharon Tate murders in 1969

    By David Gardner

    PUBLISHED: 21:59 EST, 4 October 2012 | UPDATED: 08:14 EST, 5 October 2012

    A parole board’s decision to free Charles Manson’s right hand man after 40 years behind bars caused an outcry last night.

    The recommendation to parole 69-year-old Bruce Davis came after the double-murderer’s 27th appearance before the board.

    Davis was 30 years old when he was sentenced to life in prison in 1972 in a case that was a postscript to Manson's notorious reign as leader of the murderous cult known as the Manson family."


    And now:

    "Los Angeles County district attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said: 'We certainly disagree with the board's decision. We will evaluate how we plan to proceed.’

    It will ultimately be up to California Governor Jerry Brown to decide whether Davis walks out of the Men’s Colony in San Luis Obispo. He has 120 days to review the case.

    Two years ago, then Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger blocked Davis’s release, saying he ‘would pose an unreasonable risk of danger to society.’"

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...0-years-jail-double-murder.html#ixzz2DySUd6qK
  4. So does he fit the picture for being the Zodiac killer?

    From: http://www.thezodiacmansonconnection.com/davis.html

    I can't select quotes from it, but it's a very interesting article showing the possibility of his being in proximity of Cheri Jo Bates, killed on the Riverside City College Campus, and considered to be the first known victim of "the Zodiac Killer". Lots of links with lots of data on the theory that he could be The Zodiac and about the crimes.

    It says he studied "The Process", which sounds like an awful lot like squirreled Scientology to me...

    From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Process_Church_of_The_Final_Judgment

    "The Process, or in full, The Process Church of the Final Judgment, commonly known by non-members as the Process Church, was a religious group that flourished in the 1960s and 1970s, founded by the English couple Mary Anne and Robert DeGrimston (originally Robert Moor and Mary Anne MacLean). Originally headquartered in London it had developed as a splinter group from Scientology, so that they were declared "suppressive persons" by L. Ron Hubbard in December 1965. In 1966 the members of the group underwent a social implosion and moved to Xtul on Mexico's Yucatan peninsula, where they developed "processean" theology (which differs from, and is unrelated to process theology). They later established a base of operations in the United States..."

    I'm researching this more, but didn't the old GO send infiltrators to spy on and disrupt or damage Squirrel Groups which were on their enemies list as SOP? Isn't this exactly the kind of assignment Mary Sue Hubbard might have given him?
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  5. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    Re: How I came to meet Joe Lisa

    How I came to meet Joe Lisa.

    for the tl:dr crowd, I did a radio show in 1995, and was talking about Quentin's death (See OP link), a man called in said he was hired by Mary Sue Hubbard to investigate the death of Quentin. He said he went to the scene and read the police reports and that a rolled up carpet runner was in the trunk of the car Quentin was found in, and that the area around his car had been swept clean of footprints in the sand. (with hose going from the exhaust wedged in the side window).

    We talked to each other during the radio show, his voice evidenced no stress at all, he was not lying, IMO then.

    I stumbled upon his comment on that youtube channel tonight because I recalled a post on a pathologist's website LINK(search page for scientology) His page links to Lermanet, an article in the news about Lisa McPherson.

    Scientology -- the death of Lisa McPherson. A few hours after this article was published, I received a phone call from St. Petersberg, by a man who stated that he was NOT officially representing the Church of Scientology, but was friendly to them. His exact words were, "You can name your price." I told him, as politely as I could, to go to hell. I heard no more, and wondered whether this was actually a church representative who wanted me to switch sides, somebody trying to trap me, a loose cannon, or an elaborate prank."

    The phrase "NOT officially representing the Church of Scientology, but was friendly to them" twigged my mind.. and it reminded me of the conversation with Joe Lisa 20 years ago. So I searched for Joe Lisa and found this comment on YOUTUBE about the video posted in the OP.

    Joe Lisa:
    "It wasnt his mother or his sister or Manson who told him to surrender. It was Mary Sue Hubbard and Jane Kember - the GO - who ordered him to turn himself in. They knew the investigation would eventually reveal that Scientology was connected to the Zodiac killings, so when he went back to London after he killed Gaul and Sharp, Mary Sue & Jane told him to surrender. Anybody who tries to downplay Scientology's involvement in Manson & Zodiac killings is part of misinformation campaign."

    And Smurf, I know you have worked both sides of the street and flip-flopped over the years, I was the one that talked you into signing that recant of the testimony you gave to OSA to destroy Graham for a brown envelope. That Graham called me up about in a panic so long ago...further I have no use for skip press, who has slimed ME for years, and also, quite frankly, considering my 20 years experieince fighting scientology, I consider a comment on a youtube video by an ex USGO Member that I have talked with in the past, who was personally hired by Mary Sue Hubbard to investigate the death of her son, to have a hell of lot more credibility than both you and skip press together.

    At this point I will STAND with Joe Lisa, Mary Sue's Private Investigator when he says:

    "Anybody who tries to downplay Scientology's involvement in Manson & Zodiac killings is part of misinformation campaign.""


    Arnie Lerma
  6. Here is the "surprise" surrender that Joe Lisa was referring to:


    What about his attorney? Any known ties to COS? That's him on the right of the prisoner:



    From: http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2...s-was-he-the-zodiac-killer-on-mansons-orders/
    "1974…According to an Assistant DA for LADA’s Office word had it that a male member of the Charles Manson Family was the Zodiac Killer, he was Bruce Davis second in command in the Manson family. Bruce Davis has an FBI file and a secret report done by the State Dept in 1970 about his activities in Great Britain, It was requested by the LAPD. he also has a file in CA CII, it is “sealed.”

    California’s Bureau of Criminal Identification and Information (CA CII) provides criminal data and identification services to the law enforcement community, applicant regulatory agencies and the public; maintains state summary criminal history information. Manson Family member Bruce Mcgregor Davis a white male in 1967 he is 5′ 6″ tall and about 150 lbs he has brown hair, the Wanted Poster above for the ZODIAC was looking for a white male about 5′ 8″ tall and 150 lbs with brown hair.

    In psychiatric reports, brought out in Bruce Davis’ parole hearings, Davis claimed his father was verbally abusive to him “almost daily” and he received “several beatings, several times a month” from his father. Bruce Davis also claimed that at the age of 12 he was molested by an “adult friend” but did not tell anyone, and at the age of 13 Bruce Davis was raped by an English teacher, and again told no one, this is the beginning life of a serial killer."

    Just the kind of childhood that might make someone turn to Scientology "Processing" for help, isn't it?
  7. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    Re: How I came to meet Joe Lisa

    I find it interesting that you respond to a different perspective with a personal attack on me that has nothing to do with the topic... who's acting like OSA now, Arnie? Amazing.

    As for your talking me into doing anything with regards to Graham, that's an outright lie, but feel free to make frivolous claims to feed your sense of self-importance. As to a "brown envelope"... I have no clue what you referring to.

    You're free to believe whatever you wish about Joe Lisa & his claims, even if he failed to produce an iota of proof to back them up. I never said Bruce Davis was not a Scientologist nor was he involved in the Zodiac killings.. I posted, based on what I read, that these claims were speculative and there was no evidence to prove the claims. If you have evidence to show otherwise, please post it.
  8. Lermanet_com

    Lermanet_com Banned

    see Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

    Re Process Church - The Process church had a magazine, which featured a picture of Charles Manson. The Process in the process church sounds like Processing, doesn't it? Or is it just 'nothingness'?

    without truth you have nothing
  9. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    "Vincent Bugliosi, the prosecutor of the Charles Manson family trial, comments in his book Helter Skelter that there may be evidence Manson borrowed philosophically from the Process Church, and that representatives of the Church visited him in jail after his arrest.

    According to one of these representatives, the purpose of the visit was to interview Manson about whether he had ever had any contact with Church members or ever received any literature about the Church."

  10. More on his background and Scientology involvement:

    From: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/jun/06/060610manson/

    This article if from his first parole being granted which was vetoed by then Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger

    "Bruce Davis went from clean-cut youth in Roane County to murderer, member of Manson clan From ET to notoriety By J.J. Stambaugh Posted June 6, 2010


    KINGSTON - When Bruce Davis graduated from Roane County High School in 1961, there was no reason to believe he would one day be serving a life sentence for killing two people as part of the most notorious series of mass murders in American history.

    As a member of the infamous "Manson Family," which left a trail of butchered bodies in Southern California in 1969, the former Midtown resident and University of Tennessee student was ultimately sentenced to spend the rest of his life behind bars for his role in killing two of the Family's victims.

    Officials in California, however, recently surprised many of the victims' families by granting Davis parole after more than two decades of rejecting his bids for an early release.

    It remains uncertain whether Davis, who is now 67, will actually be allowed to leave prison; California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger can overturn the parole board's decision.

    But the possibility that Davis might someday return to his former home has his classmates talking.

    Not for the first time, they are wondering: How did the neatly groomed, studious teenager they went to school with end up immersed in the cult headed by Charles Manson?

    "It's disconcerting to know that you knew somebody who could do something like that," Pat Browder of Kingston said recently as she sat in her living room, thumbing through pictures in the 1961 yearbook that Davis edited. "How did he go from immaculate and clean to where he ended up? It just doesn't fit."

    Terrorized at home

    Sunday: From an abusive home life to Manson Family murders

    Monday: Does Davis deserve parole? Could he be freed before his 50th class reunion?

    The Davis family - composed of Bruce Davis, his older sister Judith, and their parents - moved around a lot when the children were growing up. They lived at times in Louisiana, Alabama and Michigan before finally settling in the small Roane County community of Midtown when Bruce was about 10 years old.

    According to Judy Orin Prater, who grew up next door to the Davis house, Bruce Davis was "a very nice, very polite person to me" but was in most other ways unremarkable. Prater, in fact, said she can remember no specific anecdotes about his childhood or teen years despite living in such close proximity.

    "He kind of ran in different circles, I guess," she said. "He was a young boy, doing whatever young boys do."

    Despite the wholesome, quiet appearance of the Davis home, what went on behind the walls was an often terrifying experience for the children who lived there, according to Davis' sister. In fact, if her account is accurate, her brother had become intimately familiar with violence at an early age.

    "Daddy had a short temper that quickly turned to violence," Judith Davis recounted in a written statement given to California authorities last year for her younger brother's parole hearing. "He was mean sober and meaner drunk."

    Judith Davis said their father, a welder at the Kingston Fossil Plant named Bert Davis, "kicked us across the room with his engineer boots, slapped us in the face and whipped us with his belt. As we got older, he pinched us with pliers as we passed him in a room at home."
    This 1969 file photo shows Charles Manson being escorted to his arraignment on conspiracy-murder charges in connection with the Sharon Tate murder case. Forty years ago, Manson 'family' members were kids. Vulnerable, alienated, running away from a world wracked by war and rebellion. They turned to a cult leader for love and wound up tied to a web of unimaginable evil, and now, on the brink of old age, they are the haunted.


    This 1969 file photo shows Charles Manson being escorted to his arraignment on conspiracy-murder charges in connection with the Sharon Tate murder case. Forty years ago, Manson "family" members were kids. Vulnerable, alienated, running away from a world wracked by war and rebellion. They turned to a cult leader for love and wound up tied to a web of unimaginable evil, and now, on the brink of old age, they are the haunted.

    As the children reached adolescence, Bert Davis focused most of his abuse on his son and even discouraged the boy's dream of going to college, she wrote.

    "I recall Mama's voice saying, 'As long as I have a job and one dollar to my name, Bruce will go to school as long as he wants to. And you won't have one (expletive) thing to say about it,' " Judith Davis wrote.

    'Angry young man'

    In high school, none of Bruce Davis' friends suspected anything was amiss in his household. To all appearances, Davis was a serious-minded teen who seemed somewhat older than his peers, excelled in social sciences and edited his class yearbook.

    The only outward indication that all wasn't well in the life of the young man who "acted like a preacher" may have been in the 1961 yearbook, when Davis chose the surprising phrase "Angry young man" to describe himself in a caption by his class picture, according to former classmates.

    Frank Huggins, who also worked on the yearbook and who later went on to become a captain at a sheriff's department in northern Georgia, said that Davis was intensely interested in social and political issues.

    That set him apart from other boys.

    "For lack of a better word, Bruce was probably a little bit ahead of his time intellectually," Huggins said. "Because he was intellectually different, Bruce did not have a wide social network. I'm not saying he didn't have a lot of friends, but he did not have a wide social network like others have in high school."

    After graduation, Davis enrolled at the University of Tennessee to study political science, a choice that came as no surprise to many of his friends. Despite what appeared to be a great deal of academic potential, Davis remained at best an indifferent student - he had ranked 89th out of his graduating class of 133 at Roane County High School and dropped out of college after only six quarters at UT, according to reports.

    After leaving college, Davis apparently tried to put as much distance between himself and his old life - especially his estranged father - as possible. He ended up shuffling back and forth from California to Tennessee, working odd jobs and experimenting with drugs. He entered the hippie subculture.

    "He was a drifter at that point," said Davis' attorney, Michael Beckman. "He left in search of a father, and he dropped out and drifted around."

    Huggins said it was no surprise that Davis was drawn to the 1960s counterculture.

    "Bruce was an early hippie," Huggins said. "With everything going on in Haight-Ashbury (San Francisco), I think Bruce just migrated toward that. ... I don't think anyone except Bruce will ever know how he ended up like he did. If I had to classify Bruce, even in the early 1960s, he was a forerunner of the hippie movement."

    'Helter Skelter'

    On March 21, 1967, however, an event took place that would radically alter Davis' path and ultimately cost the lives of at least nine other people: Charles Manson, a 32-year-old felon with a history of pimping, attempted rape and theft, was paroled from a federal prison in Los Angeles.

    Manson headed north to the Haight-Ashbury section of San Francisco, where he began to assemble his Family from the hordes of dropouts and spiritual seekers who were drawn to the epicenter of the hippie movement.

    A self-styled guru and aspiring musician with tremendous charisma, Manson strove to break into the music business but was never able to secure a recording contract.

    One of Manson's earliest recruits was Davis, who soon traveled to England on Manson's behalf to study Scientology, according to former L.A. County prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi, who co-wrote the bestselling book "Helter Skelter."

    Davis was soon expelled from the Scientologists' ranks for drug use, however, and was back with the rest of the Family by the time they moved into the Spahn Ranch, an old movie set near Topanga Canyon, in 1969.

    At that point, Davis' father had died from natural causes in Roane County and the Manson Family had grown to more than 30 people, mostly young women seduced by Manson's charm and psychologically manipulated to the point they would do anything he asked of them.

    For a select few, their devotion to Manson would soon prove lethal.

    In addition to a taste for hallucinogenic drugs, orgies and the Beatles' "White Album," Manson had by this time developed his own personal vision of a pending Armageddon and was plotting a string of slayings to bring it about.

    In July and August of 1969, the group butchered at least nine people in the L.A. area as part of a bizarre master plan to ignite a race war that would leave Manson and his Family ruling over civilization's wreckage, a plot they dubbed "Helter Skelter" after the Beatles' song of the same name.

    Using messages painted in their victims' blood, they castigated their victims as "piggies" and left evidence they hoped would lead police to conclude the murders were committed by black militants.

    On the run in Roane....

    Once authorities tied the killings to Manson's clan, Davis fled California when it became obvious he was a suspect in two of the slayings. He spent the next year on the lam, traveling across the country and even dropping by Roane County at one point to visit loved ones.

    Gary Humphrey, a former classmate who still lives near Kingston, recalls a day in late 1969 when Davis showed up at a grocery store run by Humphrey's father for a visit that lasted about half an hour.

    "He was probably on the run then," Humphrey said. "He was different. He had a big X cut in his forehead, and he had long hair. He was not the neat Bruce he was in high school. ... I had no idea of anything. We just had a conversation, talked about what he'd been doing and where I was working."

    Davis finally surrendered in 1970 during a staged media event outside the Los Angeles courthouse where Manson and several co-defendants were standing trial for the murders of actress Sharon Tate, businessman Leno LaBianca and five others.

    Davis had already been indicted for his role in two other killings and had been the subject of an intense manhunt by state police and the FBI.

    For several weeks, a group of female Family members had stood vigil on a street corner near the courthouse, recalls Sandi Gibbons, a former reporter who covered the trial and now works as a spokeswoman for the L.A. County District Attorney's Office.

    They had tipped off one of the reporters covering the trial that Davis would be turning himself in, and by the time Davis was due to surrender on Dec. 2, a crowd of nearly 100 people had gathered to watch.

    "The Manson girls stayed out on the corner every day and told people that Charlie was innocent," Gibbons said. "None of us had really seen Bruce other than his picture, so we didn't recognize him when he came across the street.

    "The girls said, 'That's Bruce!' and he had a little news conference. ... Bruce was talking about 'hiding with your children' and 'hiding in your backyards' - it was typical Family gobbledygook. He was relaxed - he had long hair, he was pretty scruffy-looking, but he was articulate."

    According to Gibbons, Davis' native intelligence and studious background made him stand out from the rest of Manson's followers, especially the handful of men who clustered around the cult leader.

    "Some of them were so zonked out on drugs they couldn't string two words together," she said. "He was educated."....

    Davis' improvised news conference marked his last day as a free man. Along with Manson and other co-defendants, Davis was convicted in March 1972 of two counts of murder and ordered to spend the rest of his life in prison.

    'Sorry for who I was'

    Just under six months ago, the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation's Board of Parole Hearings granted Davis parole after turning him down 25 consecutive times.

    Prosecutors are opposing the parole board's decision and have asked Schwarzenegger - who has until June 27 to make a decision - to reverse the parole.

    Davis couldn't be reached for an interview. Beckman said he has advised his client not to give any interviews until after the parole issue is decided.

    Davis is now a born-again Christian, he's had no disciplinary infractions since 1980 and he has earned two college degrees while incarcerated at the California Men's Colony in San Luis Obispo, Beckman said.

    He is also married to a former airline stewardess named Beth Davis, and - due to a now-defunct California prison rule that once allowed him conjugal visits - he has a teenage daughter named Taylor Davis, according to Beckman.

    In a recent letter to the parole board, Davis promised to atone for his role in the slayings.

    "I am sorry for who I was and what I did," he wrote. "I am now focused on compensating for the lives I destroyed by promoting life-enriching and violence-preventing lifestyles at every opportunity."
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  11. From: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2010/jun/06/no-headline---060610mansonsidetwo/

    "Davis’ ties to Manson include his role in two murders
    He wrote that killings still haunt him in statement to parole board
    By J.J. Stambaugh Posted June 6, 2010

    Bruce Davis, left, and Steve “Clem “ Grogan, seen here in 1970, were convicted of murdering Donald “Shorty” Shea despite the lack of a body at the time of trial. Davis, along with Charles Manson, was also convicted of the murder of music teacher Gary Hinman in Los Angeles County.

    When it comes to the Manson Family, most people remember the 1969 Tate-LaBianca murders but not the other killings the group committed.

    Bruce Davis, a former Roane County resident who became a Family member in 1967, wasn't involved in the Tate-LaBianca killings but was convicted of murdering two other people: musician Gary Hinman and a ranch hand named Donald "Shorty" Shea.

    Hinman, 34, was an acquaintance of the Family who was targeted because Manson believed he had recently inherited several thousand dollars.

    On July 25, 1969, Davis drove a group of Family members to Hinman's home in Malibu and later also drove Manson to the scene. Over the following days, Hinman was tortured while his captors demanded he turn over cash and property to them.

    At one point, Manson partially severed one of Hinman's ears with a sword. Hinman was finally killed, and his body wasn't discovered until July 31.

    The seven Tate-LaBianca murders took place Aug. 9-10, triggering massive publicity while Manson and his followers plotted their next moves at the Spahn Ranch, an old movie set the Family had turned into a compound with the approval of the property's elderly owner.

    On Aug. 25 or 26, a ranch hand named Donald "Shorty" Shea was beaten, hacked and stabbed to death. His body was dumped in a remote location where it was undiscovered for years. Davis, Manson and fellow Family member Steve "Clem" Grogan were convicted of his murder despite the lack of a body at the time of trial.

    "There were at least two motives we could prove," said Stephen Kay, the retired L.A. County prosecutor who handled the Hinman and Shea cases against Davis. "One was that Manson was an extreme racist and Shea was married to a black woman. It just angered him that this white man would be married to a black woman."

    Another motive was that Shea was conspiring with a neighboring rancher to have the Family thrown off the property, Kay said. A third possible motive - that Shea had overheard a female Family member talking about the Tate-LaBianca murders - couldn't be proven.

    In a written statement given to the parole board in January, Davis said he is haunted by the knowledge that he helped snuff out two human lives. In previous hearings, Davis had maintained that he didn't actually kill anyone but now concedes that his role as "a willing and equal participant" means he's as guilty as the people who physically took the victims' lives.

    "My role was as destructive as any of the others," he wrote. "That admission gave me a different, more personal sense of responsibility for the murders, and brought me to terms with the personal influence for evil I had been, and the senseless murders I committed.

    "I struggled with fear of condemnation, and pride, as I came to terms with the truth about myself: I had not only done dreadful things but I also influenced others to participate in horrible crimes."
  12. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    Ironically, the guy that helped Davis torture & kill Shorty Shea.. Steve "Clem" Grogan, was initially sentenced to death (whereas, Davis was sentenced to life imprisonment), but a judge later amended Grogan's sentence to life.

    Grogan was paroled in 1985. He was given credit for leading authorities to the body of Shea.


    According to this link, there were 2 "Joe Lisa"s....

  13. From: http://tatefamilylegacy.com/brucedavis.html#garyhinman

    "Bruce McGregor Davis
    (CDC # B-41079)

    Convicted of the murder of Gary Hinman and Donald Shea.
    Convicted of Conspiracy to commit murder.
    Sentenced to Life in Prison.


    Bruce Davis was born on October 5th, 1942 in Monroe LA. The youngest of two children. He was reared in Mobile AL. By most reports he had an estranged relationship with his father who he says was an alcoholic. Davis would say that "in my life with my relationship with my dad, I had been...I had been rejected by him as being good enough for him. I was always looking for acceptance from him and I never...I never felt I got (it)"

    In psychiatric reports, brought out in Davis' parole hearings, Davis claimed his father was verbally abusive to him "almost daily" and he received "several beatings, several times a month" from his father. Davis also claimed that at the age of 12 he was molested by an "adult friend" but did not tell anyone, and at the age of 13 he was raped by an English teacher, and again told no one.

    In the seventh grade Davis was expelled from school for stealing money. Davis says he was an average student and participated in some extracurricular activities but never really felt close to anyone.

    Davis graduated high school and then attended college at the University of TN for approximately three years accumulating a year and a half of credits. Davis says that he was about a D average student at the time.

    In 1962 Davis traveled to CA for the first time. For the next few years he traveled back and forth between CA and TN, moving from job to job...

    Bruce Davis' involvement with the Charles Manson Family reportedly dates back to 1967.

    Davis claimed in his 1978 parole hearing that he had only been with the Manson Family for a year at the time of the murders, and altogether just a few consecutive months:

    "I first had met Charlie and the other members of the Family in the year before that. (Summer, 1969) We were together for a period of time. I left. I went to Europe and back home to TN and different places for, I guess about a year. I came back to LA. Then I was in Spahn Ranch for a period of time in the Summer."

    From November 1968 to April 1969, Davis worked in the London Headquarters of the Church of Scientology.

    He was reportedly kicked out for drug use.

    He then returned to the US and to the Manson Family fold just In time for the murders of the Summer of 1969.

    Davis has said that he looked at Manson as a father figure. Davis' father died when Bruce was 25.

    By most accounts, Manson considered Davis his chief lieutenant and enforcer.
    Davis denies this.

    We do know that on the night of the Labianca murders Davis gave Manson money before they left the ranch. Manson obviously trusted Davis with the Family's money, stolen credit cards and I.D.s.

    Gary Hinman [​IMG]

    On Friday July 25th, 1969 Davis drove Bobby Beausoleil, Susan Atkins, and Mary Brunner to Gary Hinman's home. Hinman was a friend of the Manson Family. Davis says he dropped the three off and left. Beausoleil, Atkins, and Brunner were there to convince Hinman to sign over his property and give them money. It is believed that the Family mistakenly thought Hinman had come into a large inheritance.

    Beausoleil, Atkins and Brunner held Hinman captive in his home during the weekend, trying to force him to sign over his cars and to give them the cash they believed he had. Hinman tried to reason with his captors and convince them that he did not have any money to give them.

    Sometime between the night of July 25th, and July 27th the three Family members at Hinman's house contacted Manson at Spahn Ranch and advised him that Hinman was not cooperating. Manson and Davis went to Hinman's to help Bobby Beausolei strong arm Hinman into giving up his money and property to the family.

    It was reported that Davis held a gun on Hinman while Manson cut Hinman's ear with the sword he and Davis brought to the home. During his 1978 parole hearing Davis was asked if he took a gun to Gary Hinman's home. He answered "No, I didn't." When pressed further Davis replied:

    "Here's what happened. I did buy the gun. Bobby took the gun when he left initially from the ranch. When I got to the house Bobby still had the gun. I may have had the gun in my hand. He might have handed me the gun. I know I didn't put it on the man while Charlie did whatever he was supposed to have done. I wasn't even...when that happened, I wasn't present. I was there but I didn't have a gun on me."

    During that same parole hearing, while describing the scenario at Hinman's house, Davis said that he did not see Manson cut Hinman. That it happened while he was in the kitchen:

    "I was in the kitchen looking at...there was other people in the house. And they had a scuffle. Something was going on. I didn't see it. But when I got back Gary had like a towel or something like this on his head. I don't know. But there was...you know, like he had been cut or something."

    In his June 1993 parole hearing Davis claimed that he had not been present when Hinman was being tortured but did acknowledge seeing Manson cut his ear:

    "I wasn't there; I didn't see it. I...I didn't see him being assaulted. Except when Manson cut him with a knife."

    Hinman's ear was practically severed by the sword that Manson and Davis brought to his home. By most standards having your ear slashed would constitute torture.

    In his 2006 parole hearing Davis went a little further. When asked "Did you point the gun at Mr. Hinman?" Davis responded:

    "Well, you know that's been a big question. I don't remember exactly. I tell you, I never thought I would shoot Gary so I don't believe I would ever point a gun at a person that I would...I was always taught better than that. So, I never had any idea of shooting Gary, I doubt if I pointed the gun. Now, if somebody testified 'I saw you pointing the gun' I would not...I wouldn't fuss with them, it might have happened. But it wasn't like me to point a gun at somebody, especially somebody I wasn't...I didn't have a reason to."

    Three different parole hearings and three different answers to the same questions.

    He contradicts himself by first saying he wasn't present during the slashing of Hinman's ear. Then at a later time he says he wasn't present for the torture of Hinman except for the slashing of his ear by Manson. When asked about holding a gun on Hinman he first says it was his gun but Bobby Beausoleil had possession of it. He says Bobby may have handed him the gun at some point while he was at Hinman's but he knows he didn't point the gun at Gary Hinman. Still later he says he doesn't remember "exactly" but that if someone said he pointed the gun at Hinman he wouldn't argue.

    After slashing Hinman's ear, Manson and Davis left, Davis taking one of Hinman's cars back to the Ranch.

    On Sunday, July 27th, after obtaining the pink slips for Hinman's two cars and deciding that either Hinman really didn't have any money or was not going to give it to them, the remaining Family members decided to murder Gary Hinman.

    Today, Davis says he did not touch Hinman, that he was simply at the Hinman house with Manson and that the full extent of his culpability is that he didn't do anything to aide Himan.

    However, Ella Jo Bailey testified that right after the murder of Hinman, Davis told her that he had "russeled" with Hinman and that Hinman had been struck over the head with the gun. Presumably the gun Davis says he just held."
  14. From: http://tatefamilylegacy.com/brucedavis.html#garyhinman

    "Bruce McGregor Davis (CDC # B-41079)

    Convicted of the murder of Gary Hinman and Donald Shea.
    Convicted of Conspiracy to commit murder.
    Sentenced to Life in Prison.


    After the Tate-Labianca murders the Manson Family decided to kill Donald "Shorty" Shea, a ranch hand at the Spahn Ranch where the Family lived. They believed that he had turned them in to police resulting in an August 16th, 1969 raid on the ranch where the Family was taken into custody on suspicion of car theft.

    Davis claims that the decision to kill Shea came from Manson. In his parole hearings Davis has described the murder of Shea and the events that led up to it:

    "..we were at the ranch early in the morning. Manson came down, said 'We're going to kill Shorty.' I said 'What for?', 'Well, he's a snitch.' Charlie is there, Bill Bass is there. He says 'You guys take him. Ask him to take you down the hill to get some car parts and..and kill him on the way down the hill'.

    "I was in the car when Steve Grogan hit Shorty with the pipe wrench. Charles Watson stabbed him. I was in the backseat with...with Grogan. They took Shorty out. They had to go down the hill to a place. I stayed in the car for quite a while but what...then I went down the hill later on and that's when I cut Shorty on the shoulder with the knife, after he was...well, I don't know...I...I don't know if he was dead or not. He didn't bleed when I cut him on the shoulder."

    "When I showed up, you know, he was...he was incapacitated. I don't know if...you asked if he was unconscious, I don't know. He may or may not have been. He didn't seem conscious. He wasn't moving or saying anything. And it started off Manson handed me a machete as if I was supposed to...I mean I know what he wanted. But you know I couldn't do that. And I...in fact I did touch Shorty Shea with a machete on the back of his neck, didn't break the skin. I mean I just couldn't do it. And then I threw the knife..and he handed me a bayonet and it...I just reached over and...I don't know which side it was on but I cut him right about here on the shoulder just with the tip of the blade. Sort of like saying 'Are you satisfied, Charlie?'.

    "And I turned around and walked away. And I...I was sick for about two or three days. I mean I couldn't even think about what I...what I had done."

    Davis claims he did not participate in the disposal of Shea's body and had no knowledge of the location of the body. Steve Grogan claims that he alone buried the body of Donald Shea. (Years later Grogan would lead authorities to the body. He was subsequently paroled.)

    However, on December 9th, 1969 Shea's 1962 Mercury was found with a footlocker of Shea's possessions and a pair of Shea's blood stained cowboy boots. A palm print belonging to Davis was found on the footlocker. Danny Decarlo says that Davis gave him a pawn ticket for a pair of guns that belonged to Shea. So it appears that Davis was involved in disposing of Shea's possessions if not his body.

    In his parole hearings Davis has made a point of saying that the murder of Shorty Shea took place during the day. Barbara Hoyt who lived with the Family during the Summer of 1969 but did not participate in any of the murders, has testified that she fed Donald Shea dinner the night before the Family made their move to the dessert. Shortly after turning in for the night she heard a scream which was followed by a brief silence after which it began again and lasted for a long time. Hoyt believed the screams to belong to Shea. She did not see Shea after that night.

    Ruby Pearl, who ran the riding stable at Spahn Ranch, testified that she had spoken with Shea one night at approximately midnight, and he had told her that he felt nervous being at the ranch. He had asked if he might stay at her home that night but at some point decided to stay at Spahn in his car. As she was leaving Spahn Ranch she saw a car come up and park. She saw Manson, Watson, Grogan and Davis get out of the car and rush toward the boardwalk where Shea was. Pearl continued to drive away and eventually lost site of Manson, Watson, Grogan, Davis and Shea.

    Returning to the ranch the next day Pearl did not see Shea's car. She testified that she never saw Shea again after that night.

    Bruce Davis convictedTHE TRIAL

    In December 1969 the Tate-Labianca case was solved (for lack of a better word) resulting in charges being brought against Charles Manson, Charles "Tex" Watson, Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten. Davis, who had not participated directly in the Tate-Labianca murders, remained free.

    In 1970, the Grand Jury brought indictments against Davis for the Hinman murder. Davis subsequently dropped out of site.

    On December 2nd, 1970, after several months as a fugitive, he turned himself in.

    Charges were also brought against Davis for the Donald Shea murder. (At the time the Shea murder trial was only one of a handful of trials where a body had not been recovered.)

    Bobby Beausoleil, in his second trial for the Hinman murder, was the first Manson Family member to be convicted of murder on April 21st, 1970. (His first trial resulted in a hung jury) He was given the death sentence.

    Susan Atkins pled guilty in the Hinman murder and received a life sentence.

    Mary Brunner received immunity for her testimony at Beausoleil's trial.

    In November, 1971 Charles Manson was found guilty of the Hinman-Shea murder.

    On November 8th, 1971 the Jury in the trial of Steve Grogan for the Hinman murder, recommended the death penalty. However, on December 23rd, 1971 Judge Kolts, noting that Grogan was "of limited intelligence.", ruled that Grogan should receive life in prison instead.

    On March 14th, 1972 Bruce Davis was convicted for the murder of Gary Hinman and Donald Shea by a jury comprised of eight men and four women. On April 17th, 1972 Judge Choate sentenced Davis to Life saying:

    "These were vicious murders indicating a depraved state of mind on the part of the defendant…I don't want to give the impression that he was at all a dupe or the foil of Charles Manson. Davis is older than most of the youngsters who were led by Manson. He is more intelligent and educated and capable of independent reasoning. For reasons known only to him he did not exercise this capability."

    It's worth noting that even though Davis did not get the Death sentence that most of the other Manson Family Murderers received, his life sentence was imposed after the CA Supreme Court had temporarily abolished the Death Penalty in that state. (Which resulted in Life sentences for all the Manson Family members on death row at the time.)

    It wasn't until a November, 1977 psychiatric report that Davis took any responsibility for the murder of Gary Hinman and Donald Shea. Prior to that report he said:

    "I didn't kill them. I'm not sure Shea is dead."

    That, of course, is a lie. His own statements at subsequent parole hearings bear out the fact that he participated in the torture of Gary Hinman, by taking Beausoleil, Atkins and Brunner to Hinman's home, by going back to the Hinman home with Charles Manson-sword in tow and-depending on which version of events you believe-holding a gun on Hinman while there. He also was participant in the murder of Donald Shea, and in fact helped dispose of his belongings afterward.

    Davis has said that he was afraid of Manson and of Watson. He has said that the reason he stabbed Shea was because he feared for his life, that he felt if he did not do it then he could have been killed the same as Shea.

    However, he contradicts that by saying he was asked to go along on the Tate "caper" but said no. He says he did the same the next night before the Labianca murder.

    This statement is also contradictory of Davis' assertion that Manson did not trust him enough to take him along on the Tate-Labianca murders:

    "Well, I guess he trusted everybody to some degree and I guess he trusted me. But when it came down to the business they got into, the murders and stuff, he didn't trust me in that because he took other people."

    And when asked in his 2006 parole hearing if he embraced Charlie Manson's Helter Skelter theory he said:

    "I laughed at Charlie, I said 'That's stupid. How can you even...where's your head at?'

    So, Davis would like the parole board to believe that he stabbed Shea only because he feared for his life. Yet, he was able to refuse participation in the Tate-Labianca murders, and laughed at Charlie's philosophy of Helter Skelter.

    He says that he refused to participate in the Tate-Labianca murders when asked, but then says that he wasn't trusted by Manson, and that is why he didn't go along on the nights of August 9th and 10th.

    Even when dealing with the parole board, who controls his future, Bruce Davis cannot hide his true nature. He often appears sullen and argumentative in front of/with the board.

    In his 2006 parole hearing he had the following exchange with Deputy District Attorney Sequeira in front of the parole board:

    Deputy District Attorney Sequeira: "It's been written to letters to the board, specifically by Steve Kay, that you were Charles Manson's right hand man. Is that correct or not?"

    Bruce Davis: "No."

    Deputy District Attorney Sequeira: "In fact, Barbara Hoyt, also wrote a letter to the board for a previous hearing that also indicated you were Charles' right hand man. Is that also incorrect?"

    Bruce Davis: "The answer is not different."

    Presiding Commissioner Davis: "Is the answer no?"

    Bruce Davis: "I thought I just said no."

    Presiding Commissioner Davis: "It's two different questions."

    Bruce Davis: "Oh, I'm sorry. How is the first question different than the second one?"

    Presiding Commissioner Davis: "Two different letters. Would you like to re ask the second question?"

    Attorney Beckman: "Why don't you just ask him if he was Charlie Manson's right hand man?"

    Deputy District Attorney Sequeira: "Barbara Hoyt also wrote that you were Charles Manson's right hand man."

    Bruce Davis: "She's incorrect."

    In this exchange instead of just answering the question put forth, Davis sounds sullen and sarcastic. Even with his possible parole on the line he just can't seem to answer the question.

    In the 2007 parole hearing of Leslie Van Houten Sequeira asked Van Houten:

    "What role did Bruce Davis play in the hierarchy of the Family?"

    Van Houten responded: "Bruce Davis had been gone when I got to the ranch and then he came back and...I think that he was one of the stronger men in the group because there were some boys in there also. And Bruce I didn't have that much contact but I know that Manson relied on him."

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  15. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    Re: How I came to meet Joe Lisa

    :clap: :clap: :clap:

    I knew Joe Lisa as well. And his wife, Val.

    Joe coming forward and making a statement is/was a VERY big deal. He knew. He was stable. He was a reliable witness - and he was in a position to know.

    Val was the FP Chairman of the USGO. They were both in the GO for ages. Very highly trusted and privy to heaps of dirty secrets all the way to the top.

    I stand with his statement here too.

    What a shocker - I never read or heard this before. Makes me wonder how many more testimonies and media interviews have been tucked away and hidden from us all these years.
  16. From: http://tatefamilylegacy.com/brucedavis.html#unsolved


    Bruce Davis was convicted of the murder of Donald Shea and Gary Hinman. It's worth noting that there have been many unusual deaths and unsolved murders that many in law enforcement felt the Manson Family might have been involved in.

    If you'd like to read about some of them... here:


    On Wednesday November 5th, 1969 Venice police responded to a call at 28 Clubhouse Avenue. There they found a young man called "Zero" (His true name was John Philip Haught, but that was unknown at the time) who was dead. He was lying on a mattress in the bedroom of the home. He had an entrance wound to the right temple. There was a leather gun case and a revolver lying beside the body.

    Alive in the home were Bruce Davis, Madaline Joan Cottage, Sue Bartell and Catherine Gillies. They told the police that Haught had shot himself playing Russian roulette.

    Cottage said that she had been lying in bed next to Haught when he noticed the gun in the leather case on a stand next to the bed. She said he remarked "Oh, here's a gun." picked it up and removed the gun from the case and said it only has "one bullet in it." Holding the gun in his right hand Cottage said that Haught had spun the cylinder and placed the gun muzzle to his right temple and fired.

    The others said they heard the gun fire and raced into the bedroom whereupon Cottage exclaimed that "Zero" had shot himself, "just like in the movies." They indicated they then called the police, and indeed the body was warm to the touch when the police officers arrived. Davis told the officers that he had picked up the gun. When the gun was dusted later for prints neither Haught or Davis' prints were found. The leather case was also devoid of prints. (Later a Manson case researcher would state that he was told that Davis' prints were found on the gun. I have seen no proof of that statement to date.)

    The gun was found to have been fully loaded. The officers were not aware that Davis and the girls were members of the Manson family. They questioned Davis, Cottage, Bartell and Gillies separately and they all told basically the same story. The police department then ruled the death a suicide.

    November 26th, 1969 Sgt. Mike McGann was interviewing Leslie Van Houten at Sybil Brand and advised her of the death of Haught. Van Houten was upset upon learning of her friend's death. When told that Haught had been playing Russian roulette and that Bruce Davis had been present she asked McGann:

    "Was Bruce playing it too?"
    McGann advised her that he wasn't.
    Leslie Van Houten: "Zero was playing Russian roulette all by himself?"
    Mike McGann: "Kind of odd isn't it?"
    Leslie Van Houten: "Yeah, it's odd."

    It seems obvious that neither McGann or Van Houten believed the Russian roulette story. As of the date of this writing no charges have ever been brought in the death of John Philip Haught and his death is officially listed as a suicide.


    On November 21st, 1969 the bodies of James Sharp, 15 and Doreen Gaul, 19 were found in an alley between Arapahoe Street and Magnolia Avenue in Los Angeles. Both had been stabbed over 50 times and beaten about the face and head.

    They had been killed elsewhere and dumped in the alley.

    Both were Scientologists. In a newspaper interview Gaul's father said that she had recently become disenchanted with Scientology.

    In a report from April 24th, 1973 by the Department of Corrections Special Service Unit, requested by the Los Angeles Police Department, it was stated that investigators believed Davis knew Gaul and was either involved in her murder or knew the identity of the murderer/murderers.

    The SSU was to interview Davis and solicit his cooperation with a promise of immunity.

    According to the report Davis denied knowing Gaul, and said he did not know anything about the crime. It was believed that Gaul had been a girlfriend of Bruce Davis. Davis denied this but did admit to having dated several women that lived at the same rooming house as Gaul.

    Davis also indicated that a promise of immunity meant little to him as he was already serving two life sentences for two counts of murder.


    On December 2nd, 1969 Family member Sandra Good's husband Joel Dean Pugh 29, was found dead in a hotel room at the Talgarth Hotel in West Kensington. He was lying on the floor, nude except for a sheet wrapped around the lower part of his body. His throat was slit twice. His forehead was bruised. There were slash marks on both wrists. Two bloody razor blades were lying near the body.

    It was reported that on the mirror were some writings in reverse and drawings. No notes or photographs were taken to document the writing and drawings. The hotel manager, Joseph Falk, would later say that he recalled the words "Jack and Jill".

    Pugh had checked into the hotel on October 27th, 1969 with a woman described as a "hippie". The woman left after three weeks. Falk would say that after the woman left Pugh became more withdrawn and stopped eating, eventually only drinking coffee.

    Falk said he found it unusual on the morning of December 2nd, when the maid found Pugh's door locked. Falk's seven year old son would often visit Pugh and they would read comics together. Pugh never locked his door.

    Later that afternoon Falk unlocked Pugh's door with his passkey but could not fully open the door feeling a weight on the other side. (Later identified as Pugh's body.) Falk saw blood on the walls and immediately called the police.

    Upon arriving the police found Pugh's body, a pipe with cannabis resin in it and several notes. Prior reports stated that the writing was in reverse on the mirror in the room. However, the notes the police found were apparently written on paper, many of them were written in reverse. They were not suicide notes and a Psychiatrist who saw them at the time said that little could be obtained from them except they were suggestive of "depressive withdrawal"

    According to the Pathologist Dr. Richard Pearce, there were no wounds that could not have been self inflicted and no sign of struggle or violence. The Coroner John Burton therefore concluded that Pugh had taken his own life "while the balance of his mind was disturbed."

    Pugh's room was on the first floor of the hotel and was accessible from the room's window. The constable did not try to find prints in the room or on the window.

    A letter from an unknown Family member, found in Sandra Good's vacated motel room in Independence CA read: "I would not want what happened to Joel to happen to me."

    Upon learning of the death of Pugh, Inyo County DA Frank Fowles made inquiries to Interpol to check visas to see if Bruce Davis had been in England at the time. Scotland Yard replied:

    "It has been established that Davis is recorded as embarking at London airport for the United States of America on 25th April 1969 while holding United States passport 612 2568. At this time he gave his address as Dormer Cottage, Felbridge, Surrey. This address is owned by the Scientology Movement and houses followers of this organization."

    "The local police are unable to give any information concerning Davis but they understand that he has visited our country more recently than April, 1969. However, this is not borne out by our official records."


    Ronald Hughes, attorney for Leslie Van Houten during the 1970 Tate-Labianca trial, failed to appear when court resumed on November 30th, 1970. Court had resumed after a recess called by the Judge prior to final arguments. Defense and Prosecution attorneys were to confer with Judge Older on instructions to be given to the Jury. Hughes absence prohibited any final actions being taken in the
    in-chambers sessions, however, Older and the attorneys, after waiting an hour for Hughes, did go ahead with informal discussions.

    This was not the first delay in the trial caused by Hughes, who was trying his first jury case.

    On October 18th, Hughes had been jailed on a traffic warrant. This resulted in a half day delay in the trial.

    On October 30th, court was delayed for an hour when Hughes was stopped by CHP officer and advised he could not drive his car any further until the brakes, turn signal, stop lights and horn were repaired.

    Hughes had gone on a camping trip near Sespe Hot Springs, CA during a recess called by the Judge prior to final arguments.

    During the trip a Volkswagen Hughes and two friends had taken on the trip became stuck in mud. The two friends said they hitchhiked out but Hughes decided to remain behind.

    Fellow defense attorney, Paul Fitzgerald, said that his answering service had received a call from someone identifying themselves as Hughes, who stated that until the police allowed them to go on the road he would have to stay where they were.

    Deputies said that there was no telephone service to Sespe Hot Springs. They speculated that perhaps Hughes had someone who hiked out call Fitzgerald on his behalf.

    On December 2nd, 1970 Bruce Davis, who had gone into hiding earlier in the year when the Grand Jury brought indictments against him for the Hinman murder, and Nancy Pittman, who had also been missing for several weeks and was wanted on a forgery charge, turned themselves in.

    When after several days Hughes failed to appear a search for him was launched.

    At Sespe Hot Springs the Volkswagen was found. It had some of Hughes' trial transcripts in it, but supposedly a psychiatric report on Leslie Van Houten was missing.

    Eventually the Judge appointed Maxwell Keith Co-Council for Leslie Van Houten and decided that the trial would continue without Hughes.

    On March 23rd, 1971 after an anonymous caller told Los Angeles County officers that Hughes' body was buried "behind the barn" at Barker Ranch, two Inyo County deputies, district attorney Frank Fowels and deputy district attorney L.H. Gibbons spent four hours searching the ranch to no avail.

    On March 29th, 1971 a body, suspected to be Hughes, was found in Ventura County. Paul Fitzgerald viewed the body in the Ventura County Morgue and said that he was "firmly of the opinion it was Hughes." The Ventura Country coroner, Merle Peters, withheld making an official identification until he was able to match Hughes' dental records to that of the corpse.

    The cause and nature of Ronald Hughes' death was ruled as 'Undetermined'.

    Later members of the Manson Family were reported to have said that Hughes had been murdered the "first of the retaliation murders."

    Years later Leslie Van Houten's conviction was reversed and she was given a new trial because her case had not been severed from that of her co-defendants when Hughes disappeared."

    PLUS, potentially the Zodiac killings? Was/is this guy really a sociopathic serial killer? Was he ever a hitter for the GO? Can we link him to any other mysterious Scientology deaths or disappearances?

    Well...all I can say is that if the Zodiac killer, California's most notorious unsolved serial killer case ever, turns out to be a Scientologist who was working undercover for the Guardian's Office, for at least part of his crimes...well, THAT would bust the Cult wide open and get the FEDS interested in investigating some of COS's "mysterious" deaths and disappearances, at long last.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2012
  17. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

  18. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest

    Thanks, Smurf.

    When you're bored and digging through news and police reports, can you search for something on the arrest of Michael Shea (Shay) at the complex? Aka, Mike O'Shea, Michael O'Shay - he had a number of similar aliases.

    He had murdered and dismembered his wife and apparently, one other (the 2nd is a rumor, the first is what he was arrested for). The murder was NOT in California, that's where he was arrested though. Not sure it ever got on the news. I am not sure of the state where he was wanted for murder, but would probably be Nevada, as his car had been borrowed by another SO member who drove out of state (probably Vegas) for the weekend and was stopped and held at gunpoint when they thought he was Shea. That's how they tracked him to AOLA/SO/Complex.

    Even the car was stolen. :lol: Total crim!

    It was in the early 80s, maybe 1982 or 1983. Not long before Ivan was C/O AOLA.

    Others have searched and not found the dox - it has to be somewhere, because it really happened. Maybe a project for the backburner when you have time.

    Also, the Coletto murder/suicide outside the complex - Joe and Diana, circa 1977-78 - I haven't ever seen the police report or media report on that, either.
  19. Smurf

    Smurf Gold Meritorious SP

    "In a lengthy news release handed to reporters, the Church of Scientology's first contact with 'The Process' came in 1967, when a member of the group went to the London Church of Scientology & started an introductory course. It was discovered, according to the Rev. Gordon Mustain, the person was taking drugs & when he refused to stop, he was expelled from the Church"

    I got a laugh out of this... Mustain claimed 15,000,000 Scientologists worldwide; 500,000 of them in California, and 250,000 in Southern California.


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