Friendly Greetings

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by Tamlin, Sep 14, 2013.

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  1. Churchill

    Churchill Gold Meritorious Patron

    Tamlin,

    As one "newbie" to another, welcome to ESMB. I have to tell you that, in my brief time here, I've found this "place" to be welcoming, thoughtful,
    and rather stimulating due to the diversity of views being freely expressed.

    Might I suggest you google Religious Cloaking in Scientology. I think it will provide context with regard to recent events, and afford you the
    opportunity to "peek behind the curtain" of the worlds fastest shrinking "religion."

    Again, WELCOME!
     
  2. xemnu

    xemnu Patron with Honors

    It's not just that human rights are abused under cover of religion but that religion is a cover.

    In the current hearings there are these funny moments where CoS states that CSI is only administrative and then the judge says "so that's not a church" and the lawyer answers "they call it the mother church". It may have become obvious to the judge that the whole setup is to escape the law. I've seen with my own eyes Miscavige go around and give orders to organizations even below CSI level. All his briefings at the quarterly events are to be interpreted as orders.

    The fact is CSI, CST, RTC (even Bridge and New Era) are not churches in any sense that people understand (a place of worship), they're business corporations which use the church cover to underpay their staff and avoid taxes.

    The only thing "worshiped" in Scn is Hubbard. He's worshiped the way dictators are worshiped. His word is the law and having bad thoughts about him is a blaspheme of sorts. As for Miscavige he's called Dept 21 by high execs of the Sea Org. (Dept 21 is Source, the Office of L. Ron Hubbard)

    You present the situation as if there are two sides : members and ex-members.
    Certainly it is necessary to have compassion toward the members, if only because they are abused and defrauded.

    But both members and ex-members are abused and defrauded by the "church". The two actual sides are a cult on one side and the people who have fallen prey to their practices on the other. The members just happen to be used like robots and as a shield. Divide and Conquer.
     
  3. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Well now, since you mention it . . . . :)

    Lots of free procedures in my signature; procedures you can DO personally, not just read about. Reading about processes isn't really worth shit in terms of developing a visceral understanding. Most of them aren't exactly Scientology, but if you blow off some charge you'll get an idea of why Scientology can be so addictive despite all the attendant hardships. For best results follow the instructions.

    Paul
     
  4. Alle G

    Alle G Patron with Honors

    Ha! ‘Rather mysterious’ is an understatement. It is THE biggest Mystery. I am a relative newbie and a ‘never-in’ too. So I explain it to myself as something irrational, like I fell in love with my ex-husband, there is no explanation. :duh: (Unless I am totally mistaken)
     
  5. Alle G

    Alle G Patron with Honors


    I find yawning fascinating. Gurdjieff thought that yawning is pumping energy from some partially external source, similar to laughing. I don’t know. Animals yawn, but can they laugh? Gurdjieff also said Jesus never laughs in the Bible, I don’t know if he yawns, mayby he does not need to.

    Paul, do you have an explanation why yawning works? Just a short one?
    I know you yawn when you blow charge, so is it releasing energy or pumping energy?
     
  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    A summary of my ideas about how it seems to work is here: http://paulsrobot3.com/1st/rub-and-yawn.htm. Any physical activity (sports, digging the garden etc) can help blow charge too and thus be therapeutic (as in the idiom "blowing off steam"). Yawning is mostly involuntary, and kicking a ball is mostly voluntary, so the distinction between releasing energy and pumping energy is blurred.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  7. hpm1999

    hpm1999 Patron with Honors

    RIGHT= this was truth became apparent about 18 months ago (I left just more than four years ago) when I did happen to open the "famous" Mark Bunker Video whereby he had a hand held cam corder and was attempting to gain entrance into a CO$ "public" event celebrating the American Independence Day. Mark treated the people (who did confront him with hatred bordering on insanity or silliness) with kindness and understanding-being firmed in his stance against CO$. Later I either read or did hear him say "Look I see these people as the VERY PEOPLE I AM TRYING TO REACH- they are the VICTIMS" and thus his kindness and understanding.

    That Video had a terrific affect on me- MARK was demonstrating Video had a terrific affect on me with Mark Demonstrating THE PROMISE of SCIO whilst these guys were demonstrating SP behavior!:nervous:

    Maybe MARK should start a cult!:yes:
     
  8. aegerprimo

    aegerprimo Summa Cum Laude

    Hello Tamlin!
    :wave:
    Great to have you here! :hattip: I am a noob to ESMB and have been warmly welcomed here by the "old-timers" and other noobs. The stories I have posted of my time in Scientology have been appreciated. Better late than never to speak out about the dangerous cult of scientology. :scnsucks: I am grateful for the compassionate insight, intelligent opinions and experience of the people here - both ex-scientologists and never-ins alike. :bow:

    The objectivity you can bring to this place is valuable! :thankyou::flowers2:
     
  9. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    I suppose my deal was that I'd heard a lot of bad stuff about the cult being money hungry. But I also thought that there was maybe some good to be gotten out of the "Tech" with auditing. I also thought it was possible to maybe not take everything literally, but I didn't realize that was an "acceptable truth" and that people really did take stuff literally. But I found that out after I blew, so back to my blow cog...

    I belong to a Pentacostal denomination that believes people can get communication directly from God. I've not experienced it very much in my life, but I did experience direct communication from God when I had my blow cog. God told me to leave.
     
  10. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    When I was a kid, we had some Pentecostals visit our (Baptist) church pretty regularly, relatives of some of our members from down in New Orleans. They weren't snake handlers (most if not all of those guys in WVA are white), but they practiced glossolalia, and that left a really weird taste in my mouth - even back then I was something of a linguist, and I could pick out recurring patterns that corresponded more to a baby's babble than to meaningful speech. Later I saw the linguistic and neurological analyses that bore out my obeservations from back then.

    Does your church practice glossolalia? When I was in the USSR, I took some messages and packages to relatives of people I knew in the US in Pinsk. The ones in the US told me that though they were Pentecostals, that Pentacostals in the USSR were more like Baptists here. I was a bit skeptical, but they were correct about the Byelorussian Pentacostals - no speaking in tongues, no rolling in the aisles. You mentioned you had Korean roots, and I know a few Korean Christians, and it seems the same there - what one denomination is known for in the US is not what is practiced in the same denomination outside the US, so I was just curious.
     
  11. NoName

    NoName A Girl Has No Name

    My family went to the Yoido Assemblies of God in Korea. I still read their website a lot, but that's not the church I go to now. I don't recall speaking in tongues from when I was younger, but I was really young the last time I went to one of their services live. Still, that's the sort of thing that I probably would have remembered.

    Now I go to Foursquare church and it happens from time to time. That's been the one aspect of it that I find strange, so I'm glad they place less emphasis on it. When I went to the local (American) Assembly of God, they seemed to do it more. That's why I ended up at the Foursquare - smaller group, more diverse, younger, and less obsessed with the tongues.

    I speak from my experience with the congregations near me in Maryland, though - my observation may or may not apply to the respective movements as a whole.

    I recently read that the American Pentacostal movement is getting away from speaking in tongues, which is a relief, because when I compared notes with my Aunt who lives in Seoul (talking about religion following my cult shock), my opinion became that American Pentacostal denominations focused on speaking in tongues to the exclusion of other gifts of the spirit. I think they're all important (obviously) since that's what got me away from the cult and made me more religious. I didn't used to go too regularly until that experience with Scn - ironically (or not) that turned me very religious.
     
  12. Purple Rain

    Purple Rain Crusader

    I used to do it. I have no idea what I was doing though. It's not quite the same as just making something up - like if you're trying to think up a word. I also wouldn't fall down when people prayed for me, because I refused to fake it, although one time I was thrown back across the room like electricity and lay there twitching for ages afterwards. It's the only time the quaker thing ever happened to me and it felt, well, awful.
     
  13. Tamlin

    Tamlin Patron

    Oh wow, so many replies! How nice! :) The computer is running a bit slow, so I don't dare try to reply with quotes. I'll just say a big thanks to everyone for all the information and the very kind welcome.
    :grouphug:

    Probably I should explain a little further why I've been using the term "religion" and why it seems I'm looking at it as something that has two sides.

    First, I say religion simply because Scientology is considered a religion in the U.S. and it's easier to say than "a system of beliefs and practices which may or may not be spiritual in nature"...which is more my personal idea of it. Also, I don't know how many practicing Scientologists consider it to be their religious belief, but if they do, I at least want to be respectful of that. (as I said before - as a Buddhist in Texas, I know how frustrating it can be when one's beliefs are misunderstood).

    That said, I am familiar with the corporate web and the religious cloaking issue, as well as Mr. Lerma's well-informed writing on the subject. :yes: I do understand that calling it a religion allows fair wages to be kept out of Sea Org worker's pockets, among many other vile things. I don't understand why it can't be a religion that doesn't do any harm. (I know there are strong opinions about that here, too - this is another thing I'm hoping to learn.)

    Secondly, my aim isn't to say Scientologists are bad people or anything like that. Not at all. It's really what HPM1999 said. I have a great deal of compassion for those inside. However, if they are inside, then I assume that they stand with the official church position. Even if they were offered a way out, they might feel unable or unwilling to go. Hence there are two sides - even if both sides may ultimately end up suffering the same.

    The official church position, though, is one that gives me some real trouble. :no:


    Hopefully, that makes some sense. Now I must get some sleep or I'll be useless in the morning!

    PS Paul, thanks for the advice, and NoName, I'm really glad your Deity spoke to you when you needed it.
     
  14. aegerprimo

    aegerprimo Summa Cum Laude

    It would be outstanding for you to share your knowledge in this area! Even though I was in the Sea Org (a long time ago) the structure and complexity of the religious cloaking was hidden from those who were (are) in. Only recently, because of LOTS of reading, I am barely starting to understand how the Co$ corporate structure works, and how it is legally under the guise of a religion.
    :dizzy:
     
  15. Free Being Me

    Free Being Me Crusader

    Here's a link:
    http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/nytimes/nyt-irs-030997.htm
     
  16. hpm1999

    hpm1999 Patron with Honors

    I do remember as a child visiting my mum's family in the States-and taking a trip to the West. Aside from the overwhelming scale of the States which did make such an impression on me- was the sheer number and types of churches. I remember being in Phoenix (this in late 1980s) and driving down one of these six lane local roads- large signs every few feet advertising everything from Groceries to Petrol (Actually GAs which my siblings and I viewed with hilarity), to Pawning, to strip clubs to one church after another all of some (to me anyway) obscure sect (but also including Catholic). Now I just read in this posts of two I have not heard of Assemblies of God and Four Square (there is a Baptist church near my town in England but it is very small).

    I think the States are a freewheeling marketplace of churches and religion. This probably explains why so many strange sociological cults are able to take root- and stay off they radar (at least until the explode or create a giant scandal).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  17. Udarnik

    Udarnik Gold Meritorious Patron

    You lot exported your worst religious nutcases over here.

    But you kept enough of them to run Joseph Priestly out on a rail for expressing doubts about the whole business...

    And if you have not heard of the Church of God, the Assemblies of God, and other Pentecostal denominations, they are not all nutcases. But if you dig deep enough, you have a lotta lulz ahead of you...

    [video=youtube;cwBVcsWYJd8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwBVcsWYJd8[/video]
     
  18. hpm1999

    hpm1999 Patron with Honors

    Holy Christ- this is as batshit crazy (A Yank Term I have grown to love) as anything in CO$.

    BTW even though I do poke fun at my "unsophisticated Yank cousins" I think Americans have the best cursing vocabulary on the planet. These swear words and expletives simply roll off your tongues in the most interesting manner. One of my American co-workers (expatting here) has a saying when surprised "Fuck me upside down" and when offended will say (Transliteration)-"The dumb sunufabeetch". It took me a moment to understand that dumb- means stupid and "sunufabeetch" was son of a bitch. But a most effective insult I must say. Just does not seem to have the same affect when I say "Oh you dumb son of a bitch" with a Yorkshire accent...:)
     
  19. Mick Wenlock

    Mick Wenlock Admin Emeritus (retired)

    interesting few episodes of Justified in last season dealt with a preacher who handled snakes ... he did not make it through the whole series
     
  20. xemnu

    xemnu Patron with Honors

    You say, "Also, I don't know how many practicing Scientologists consider it to be their religious belief"

    I'll give you my opinion on this: None consider it their religious belief. Every Scientologist, if he has read KSW (and every Scnist has read KSW) considers it as a technology. They also consider it as a practical philosophy.

    Any thought that it might be a religion comes after these two ideas. Thinking otherwise would be a high crime as it would violate KSW. I think any Scnist who has read HCO PL Religion knows that the religious angle is used for protection.

    Ironically, the only Scnists who really think of it as a "religion" are the ex-Scnists who see it as a cult, not a technology nor a practical philosophy.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013

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