George Orwells 1984 and Scientology - a comparison

Discussion in 'Evaluating and Criticising Scientology' started by Ex_SaintHill, Aug 1, 2010.

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  1. Ex_SaintHill

    Ex_SaintHill Patron with Honors

    I am currently reading the book 1984 from George Orwell, am halfway through and already have some things I found very interesting. I knew about the book for some time and don't know why I haven't read it before. There are some striking similarities between the story of the book and the Sea Org how I have experienced my time in it:

    1.Big Brother:

    This is like LRH. There is a picture of him on every wall in an Org, and in many homes of Scientologists. Often with many quotes beneath it. In the book you have Telescreens with a picture of big brother in every room and the quote „big brother is watching you“.

    Also everything good that happens is credited to big brother, just like in Scientology it is credited to LRH.

    They are both revered nearly godlike, and everything they utter is taken as an absolute truth and can't be doubted.

    2.The Party INGSOC

    This for me can be compared to Scientology ,and the Sea org in some parts in particular. Everybody who is not a Scientologist is a Wog or an SP. Just in the book, everybody who is not a member of „the Party“ is a prole or is an enemy and needs to be destroyed. In the book there is no religion anymore as it has been supplanted by INGSOC. In Scientology there is no other real religion as itself.

    3.The Inner Party Members

    This I compare with RTC and the Sea Org. In the book 1984 the inner party members had everything: Wine, real coffy, sugar, servants, expensive and beautiful housing etc. All this while the normal party member has his ration of barely eatable food, little money, bad and run down little appartments in need of desperate repair. They are not allowed to do anything in live exept work and sleep. If they do something else they are suspiscous. They have their rations of 20gr of chocalote a week and their few cigarettes.

    When I was in the Sea Org the RTC reps had the biggest rooms (nearly suitelike), had the CMO EPFers playing servants and doing their ironing, their driving their cooking etc. They had the newest and most expensive clothing, the best food, new cars. Look at David Miscavige, he even is said to have private jets, helicopter, a suite on every base (In Saint Hill he stays at SH Manor). He has a lot of money, he drinks expensive whisky, he goes to partys and so on.

    The normal Sea Org members get hardly any pay, and what they get is very little, which mostly gets spent on soap, new shoes, dry cleaning etc, that nearly nothing gets left over for themself. All they are allowed to do ist to work and sleep. Getting time off is so rare and difficult to get, that it becomes negligible. The food he gets is barely edible and the sleeping quaters are a joke. I saw rooms with 40 people sleeping in it and bunks 3 beds high. The beds where dangerously wobbly as they were so old and rusty. I am surprised no accident had occured. This was at stonelands. In Walsh manor this improved slightly. There were rooms of average 6 people. However there were still dorms with about 20 beds. The building got into a bad state after a few years. And it is still no comparison to what the guys in RTC have for a standard.


    In the book 1984 there is a sort of new language being developed called newspeak. It creates new combined words and the actual ammount of normal words are deminishing. Party member use these words without hardly noticing it.

    I compare that to the Scientology nomenclature. It becomes so ingrained to a Scientologist that he rarely notices that he is using it. Even I, after I left Scientology continued to use these terms sometimes.

    I saw some TV programms about Scientology where parents lost their children to Scientology, and one of the first thing they noticed about them was the funny way they started to express themselves.


    In the book there is thought crime. You were not allowed to have independent thought or any doubts or disagreement in regards to the party. People would report you to the thought police if they suspect you. Even children reported their parents. Mail would be read during transit, you could not read a book that was not approved by INGSOC or watch anything different on TV. Everything is being monitored through the telescreens with sound and picture.

    In Scientology if you said something negative about Scientology you would get reported to ethics. Even if you said something to a friend in confidence you could get reported. Everything Ron says is the absolute truth.

    You are not allowed to visit the internet as you could get „entheta“ (look at that newspeak term) from there. You were discouraged to read the newspaper and having a TV was forbidden. Even my laptop and mobile phone was taken away by security. Every letter you receive is opened and looked through. Looking at RTC they had TV and Internet and mobile phones. On the RPF you can't even read anything but LRH material.


    In „1984“ a person accused of thoughtcrime simply dissapears. His name just vanishes and no one talks about him. Sometimes people are being made an example by being publicly executed and discredited. Emmanuel Goldstein is the „counterfigure“ in the book. He is being seen as something like the devil, and represents everything opposite the Party.

    Sometimes people would dissapear for a long while. During this time they would be „conditioned“ and brainwashed , and then appear again confessing their sins and appologise publicly.

    In Scientology people just vanish. Look at Heber Jentsch, Gilliome Lesevre, Ray Mirthoff and others. They don't appear anymore at events, and you don't know about them anymore. No one even mentions their names. They are just being forgotten. If you wrote to ED Int in the past and got an answer it was always signed by Gilliome Lesevre, now it is just ED INT.

    People who get SP declared are being publicly discredited by having all their crimes openly displayed and the Scientologists begin to seperate from you, are afraid of you and hate you. If you do your A-E steps you would be „Conditioned“ and then appear again and confessing their sins and appologise publicly.

    Similar things occur to these poor fellos who dissappear to the RPF for sometimes decades. They are thoroughly beeing brainwashed and conditioned, and return again only to say that they have been wrong all along and Scientology has always been right.

    7.Two minutes hate

    In the book by George Orwell, there are regular 2 Minuted hate shows and hate days, where there are broadcasts being made by the party are being shown. These are about other countries which war is being made with, and about Goldstein.Then there are glorious reports about the party and Big Brother, and everybody nearly prostrates themselves in front of the picture of Big Brother in gratitute when it appears. The description of the main Character in the book of the uncontrolled emotions which come up during during theses 2 Minutes hates is well discribed.

    This reminds me strongly about the Scientology events. There are rantings against Psychology and Psychiatry and all the Sps that exists. Everyone attending these events develope an immense hate against them. Then comes the ranting about the goodness and wins Scientology and Ron caused and everybody gives standing ovation up to 50 times during one event.

    There is more coming. I have a few more notes and the book is not yet through.
  2. Gottabrain

    Gottabrain Guest


    You knew Sea Org Members with enough money to pay for DRY CLEANING?

  3. Barbz

    Barbz Patron with Honors

    This oughta curl your hair:

    "Did you ever read poor old George Orwell's uh... 1984? Yes, yes, that's wonderful. That would be, could be, the palest imagined shadow of what a world would be like under the rule of the secret use of Scientology with no remedy in existence."
    -L. Ron Hubbard PDC Lecture #20
  4. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    He accidentally managed to tell the truth there. No wonder DM chopped it out.

  5. Markus

    Markus Silver Meritorious Patron

    You are so very right...

    :thumbsup:Great post and so very true:yes:

  6. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

  7. Miscavige changing the Second Dynamic from “sex and family” to “creativity”, fits in perfectly with the Orwellian model of 1984 too.
  8. Andrew Moore

    Andrew Moore Patron

    The similarities are startling. (I suppose that would be true of any tyranny.)

    "Wog" and "prole" definitely correlate.

    The party is very anti-sex. Very similar to the SO (CSWing to start a relationship, etc. That actually happens in non-SO orgs as well, come to think of it.)

    The ongoing, unwinnable war used to justify the sponging of resources (i.e. the IAS.)

    And of course, the Ministry of Plenty announcing a raft of upstatistics with no basis in fact (i.e. International Events.)
  9. Ex_SaintHill

    Ex_SaintHill Patron with Honors

    This is scary. I didnt know of this, but it makes sense. Sure someone like miscavige would take this as advice from Hubbard and use it to his advantage.

    Also the part about abolishing sex is what I wanted to compare, but you beat me to it :eyeroll:

    I am not sure if this has any truth to it, but iheard from someone who recently left the Sea Org that now it is being planned that getting married should be forbidden in the Sea Org. It was already hard having a relationship in the Sea org, or just being friendly with a female fellow staff would get you pulled into ethics with a metered interrogation if you were having an out 2D.

    In 1984 they are planning to abolish all emotions, including love, exept for love to INGSOC. and hate for the enemy and happiness for victories of the party. maybe RTC has the same plans.
  10. Ex_SaintHill

    Ex_SaintHill Patron with Honors

    Here some more comparisons which I found:

    8. 2+2 = 5

    Now this was interesting: In the Book 1984 there is this example of mindcontrol where towards the end of the story the main Character gets caught by the thoughtpolice and then conditioned to the point that he starts to believe everything they say, even that 2 +2 = 5.

    This reminds me of several things. First off there is the wordclearing. Often there were things I read from LRH that absolutely made no sense to me at all. Per their doctrine on integrity only the thing that is true for you is true for you. But wait! If there is something you don't agree with, you get worked on with wordclearing up to a point where you could see how it could be and then accept the stuff. Sometimes I had spent days on days on wordclearing as I adamantly refused to believe something. At the end of all that I couls even agree to that.

    The other thing is ethics. Now I had already been indoctrinated in the believe of Scientology and the dynamics and ethics. Lets have a look at this example:
    Iwanted to leave the Sea Org and of course had to do the condition of doubt. There as you probably know you have to look through the dynamics and deceide if staying or leaving would be the most survival on the most dynamics. If you believe in Scientology and that it does good, there is NO WAY that you can have your doubt formula done and think it is the best to leave. On the first and second Dynamic, you could decide that it would be the best to leave, but after that, on all the other dynamics it would be the best to stay.

    I even tried to submit my doubt to the ethics officer, somehow bending things around so that leaving would be the best. He did not accept it of course and worked on ma for weeks until I really believed that staying would be the best for Scientology, the world, the universe and everything else but me and my 2D, and so I would have to make a sacrifice on the two things and just stay to continue to help claering the planet. Even though I felt really sad about it as I wanted to live a life like any other teenager, and not just work like a slave. I still have nightmares about this even after having been out for about 5 years.

    9. doublethink

    This is in the book a Newspeak term which discribes the ability to tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them. There are several passages in the book where people told things they definately knew as a lie but really belived in it.

    I came across this in Scientology. Lest have a look at clearing the planet. I was in the Sea Org for 12 years and I have seen no progress towards that goal. There were things told during events that gave you the impression, but the statistics said the opposite. I am also sure that nearly everyone knew to some degree that there is no real progress in clearing the planet, however everyone firmly believed that he is doing it.

    Or look at the youth for human right action. Here they preach the human rights, but i personally know of no group which violates them more than Scientology.

    Here some examples:

    Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person?
    – In Scientology there is no liberty, there is only work and nothing else.

    No one shall be held in slavery or servitude; slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms?
    – What esle do you call 16 hours work a day for 7 days a week for 30 GBP maximum per week

    No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment?
    – What is the RPF if not cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment?

    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.
    --Try just leaving the Sea Org by just walking out the door. See if you can manage. Or in the
    case of exile, what else is an SP declare?

    (1) Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
    (2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.
    What about my mobile phone and Notebook which were taken away?

    I could go on and on giving violations to nearly each article of the human rights, and these are not just rare occasions. This is happening ALL THE TIME!

    I am sure that these guys know that this is happening, and that it is not OK I knew when I heard and saw things like this that it was not ok, it was wron, and this is not how to treat a human. Still they are preaching the human rights louder than anyone else currently.

    So this is what I got at the moment. It is scary, and there is a lot more to it on each of these points. I could write a whole book with examples and maybe even find more points to compare. Maybe I will do this bit by bit in my spare time, who knows.
  11. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    Freedom is the freedom to say 2 + 2 = 4.

    A very unScientological statement.

  12. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    sex will find a way

    Sex will find a way. I truely hope that they DO ban marriage in the Sea Org, that may very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. They have already clamped down heavily on sex outside of marriage. They stack people up like pieces of firewood in their bunking areas. Marriage is therefore incentivised as a way out of total shit-4-quarters. In the event that they ban marriage, they will have effectively banned sex completely. The result would be like alchohol prohibition ... people simply wanted to drink, and, in the case of the Sea Org with not much of anything else in the way of an outlet, people will simply want to fuck, and they will find a way.

    One way it could possibly backfire ... people might just start colaborating with each other, watching each other's backs so couples could grab a half hour of privacy here and there. Or those in security will start accepting bribes ... if not money, then an occaisional quick blowjob. Yeah, I truely hope that Slappy Dave bans marriage ... of course, he is setting the example already, considering Shelly. Of course, his relationship with Laurie Stuckupenuf is beyond reproach and totally professional, I'm sure.

  13. Zinjifar

    Zinjifar Banned

    OTIX EP - 'He Loved Big Hubbard'

  14. Smilla

    Smilla Ordinary Human

    Oldthinkers unbellyfeel Scientology.
  15. paradox

    paradox ab intra silentio vera

    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  16. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    I have many times marveled at Mr. Orwell's prescience. And he began writing it in the late 30s! The book's completion got a bit interrupted by WWII and when the time came to publish it was 1948 and the publisher had a bit of foresight too in renaming it 1984, reversing the 48. I think Mr. Orwell's title was "The Last Man in Europe". Scientology is but a minuscule pretender when it comes to The Mindfuck, but an excellent example.
  17. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

    DM took this out of the PDCs?
  18. Sindy

    Sindy Crusader

  19. paradox

    paradox ab intra silentio vera

    Not at all, Syn. Just a different one. More the merrier. :happydance:
  20. freet43

    freet43 Patron with Honors

    so true-

    the similarities were not lost on me...

    One could also do a similar analysis of Scn and the real-life soviet state...

    Gulag vs RPF

    Lenin vs LRH

    pictures and statues of Lenin vs pictures and statues of LRH

    Communist party elite vs RTC

    only "approved" books were allowed

    the collective is everything and the person nothing

    etc etc