Hi

Discussion in 'New Member Introductions' started by PleaseHelp, Apr 20, 2018.

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  1. PleaseHelp

    PleaseHelp Patron

    I apologise if my post is emotional or a little jumbled because of the emotions.
    Unlike all of you I was never a Scientologist but my family have been in Scientology since 1950 as my Dad proudly boasts. I'm told when my father had a family he left for a while to focus on raising us and he did so alone which in the 80s is no small achievement and of course I'm very grateful.
    My first memory of any of the Scientology books was when I was around six and the name L.Ron Hubbard and I knew my father didn't like us touching the books they were very precious to him.
    I don't recall until I was maybe 13 my parents arguing about him returning to Scientology. The cost of these courses I kept hearing them fight about and I couldn't figure out how someone who wrote science fiction novels could be considered a credible religious leader much less creator and I guess I never really took it too seriously.
    I don't claim to know nearly as much as you all and as I've never lived it my knowledge of Scientology was what I could read online and overhearing arguments. I remember being horrified reading a story online about a woman in America who died because she was essentially imprisoned and starved and she was taken to get medical assistance too late. I remember thinking my Dad MUST see this he must know that these people are bad and that they're killing others. I won't ever forget his response to me "People hate what is different and they lie about Scientology to sell stories".
    We didn't speak of Scientology for years until these people "friends of my Dad" came to visit one Saturday afternoon and when I realised they were Scientologists I seized the opportunity to ask them all I could about their religion to which I received a lot of blank stares and disdain and one who looked another and whispered "Suppressive". I didn't know then what it meant and I still I guess don't in the way it would probably hurt all of you to be called it but I knew by how they looked at me that it wasn't a compliment on my curiosity.
    As a young adult I was quite feisty and to my detriment at times I questioned anything and everything. The more I learned about Scientology the more ridiculous it seemed to me and I couldn't fathom how my Dad who is smart and educated and logical could buy into any of this.
    I don't necessarily feel proud of every conversation I ever had with him regarding his choice of religion because I definitely don't feel it's ok to mock or belittle someone's beliefs and for that I will always regret but I had gone from I guess debating back and forth about different teachings or contradictions to probably at times outright mocking him and making fun of him for being so naive.
    I always felt one day soon enough he would have an awakening and realise this stuff was stupid and he would walk away. But it seems he was just biding time for everyone to leave home and he could have his time and expenses freed up.
    Growing up in my household with one parent a Christian and the other a Scientologist makes for some very different parenting. I try to laugh about it but some of the things my father told me so sincerely and genuinely meant I look back on now and shake my head. Like the time I had gotten sick and he had shared that a person is only sick if they choose to be. Imagine trying to wrap your head around cancer patients CHOOSING such a thing for instance. Or more serious things like when I was diagnosed with a mental illness and he told me that psychiatrists were liars and that the medicines they were giving were poison. He was my Dad and I believed him wholeheartedly and spent the better part of being a young adult wanting to die and suffering in a way I would wish on no living soul.
    My Dad slowly, slowly became more and more involved again with his church and we all gave up trying to talk about it and just let him do his own thing. Who was I to say he couldn't choose any religion he wished? It was easier to have peace than to be right.
    Yesterday my father returned from a three week absence. He was "studying a course" a gift from his brother (a member named within this website) and after weeks of trying to get hold of him and no one being able to tell me what was going on I finally spoke to him. The first conversation short and sweet and just checking if he was ok and then a second call that he initiated. I wish I had recorded it because it was possibly the most surreal horrific moment. This man I had known and had loved my whole life is yelling down the phone at me about How dare I question him, his life is whatever he chooses to do with it, he was allowed to do things for himself that he felt he needed without being attacked. The whole time I'm just trying to work out what the hell is going on and how in five or ten minutes between calls he went from nice and calm to enraged and yelling at me. Have you ever seen a crazy, homeless man raving nonsensical things in a park? THAT is how this felt and he was mad at me for stuff I'd not even said or done. I sat in my car on the side of the road and cried. I couldn't and still can't understand where this had all come from. But then I got mad and whether warranted or not my blame lay at the feet of this thing he was calling a church. I've never heard my Dad heated, angered or in a raised voice my whole life until you mention Scientology and I was mad. These people spent three weeks with my father and I don't know what they did with him or what "course" he took but I know what they returned to our family isn't my Dad. So I dialled his number and waited and told my Dad I would call a lawyer and have him evaluated and he made his enduring power of attorney if this erratic behaviour continued and call me crazy I don't care... I really never expected people to believe all this but I had to try... the phone went quiet he had stopped talking a moment and it's almost like someone was having a conversation with him and his whole demeanour switched to apologising and reassuring me he was fine and everything was ok and he loves us etc. My Dad is a good and honest man and there's never been a time that I didn't be take him at his word... until yesterday. I didn't believe a damn thing he said.
    I love my Dad and I wish I could blindly ignore all the negative about Scientology just so I could ensure my family wouldn't be broken up but I can't and the more I discover about it the more afraid I am about losing him to something I know in comparison to you all so little about.
    My Aunty shared with me today her experiences with Scientology. I told her about all the negatives I had read and her reply being "It's all true" took my breath away. She hasn't spoken to her brother (my Uncle) in years because she no longer believes as he does and he's distanced himself from her. How is this happening? I know by far I'm not nearly the first to go through this stuff so please help me understand how this is so appealing to good, smart, decent men and women. Please help me understand what happens next. I don't want to lose my Dad. I'm torn between respecting his desire to have whatever religion he chooses and a crushing fear that he will end up the way so many other family members seem to become within this group and they're just lost to their families forever. :(
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  2. Jim Dandy

    Jim Dandy Patron with Honors

    Well, the best advice I can give you right now since you used your real name is to delete your post and this thread while you still can. You have 24 hours to delete the post, but I would do it now.

    Then tomorrow post again but do not use anything close to your actual name. First...middle...or last.

    To delete the thread look at the top and you'll find 'Thread Tools. Click on the down arrow and there should be something that says "Delete Thread".
     
  3. PleaseHelp

    PleaseHelp Patron

  4. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    You have already lost your Dad..... to the insane believe in "imaginary-space-cooties" called "Body Thetan"s or short: BT's. Exorcizing these imaginary-space-cooties is all what is done on the secret OT-Levels.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_thetan

    Here is what happpened to his guru El Con Hubbard in the end, who came up with this nonsense:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~snefru/deathoflrh/prince-death.html
     
  5. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    If your name is really ********, my advice would be to redact your message and use a fake name, while avoiding personnal infos of you.

    The reason for it is that if people , connected to your dad's or his org, get who you are, it will be reported and your dad is likely to be handled to totally disconnect from you. In other words, your chances to remain connected (or emotionally involved) to him will be lesser than now. This board is monitored by Scientoloty OSA, which is their police who do not want $cientologists to know the truth of their scam and damamging cult.

    Although, in remaining anonymous, you can get here as much help as you need , with people experienced with the situations you are encountering, emotions, struggling, for as long as you wish without compromising your chances to succed in protecting your relationship with him.

    I wish I am clear to you!

    Welcome on the board and hopefuly you'll get in comm with people who are willing and able to help you.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  6. PleaseHelp

    PleaseHelp Patron

    It's been edited ty lol
     
  7. PleaseHelp

    PleaseHelp Patron

    I also want to explain IM NOT LIKE ALL OF YOU I wasn't raised in it, I wasn't taught it, I didn't join it so to you your terms may seem perfectly understandable but I don't know things like BTs or what they do etc. Imagine being in Spanish class and you're dumbest kid THATS ME right now!
     
  8. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    What do you think the posted link about Body Thetans (BT's) is for ?:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_thetan

    Exactly.... it was placed there for the reason that you click on the link and will get more information about this scientology-insanity called BT's. If you don't do it....
     
  9. PleaseHelp

    PleaseHelp Patron

    Ok relax I didn't notice the link sorry just assumed it was advertising or something.
     
  10. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    The problem is that the church's Intelligence wing, the Office of Special Affairs (OSA), monitor this and other message boards that are critical of Scientology. If they figure out who you are, they will eventually force your dad to choose between you and them (and it perhaps would happen very quickly). You could be declared a "Suppressive Person" for criticising Scientology on this board. This will mean that your dad will no longer be able to talk to you, unless he leaves the church himself and also gets declared suppressive. If that happens, any of your other family members who are in the church will also face the same situation. So you risk losing contact with your family by posting your identity, or by posting enough information for OSA to figure out who you are.

    Some people don't care about that, and prefer to maintain their integrity and speak it as they see it and show their identity. If that's you, fine. I think Jim Dandy just wanted you to realise what will happen, and give you a heads up so you could take your identity down if you don't want to reap the family consequences of that. There's probably nothing that the church will do against you personally, apart from attempting to disconnect your Scientology connections from you - if you are employed by a Scientologist, or have Scientology clients, you will lose them. But your dad will be threatened with losing his 'Bridge to Total Freedom'. If he is a true believer, and it sounds like he is, he will probably put his spiritual salvation before you. To a Scientologist, you are just a homo sapiens. Their goal is to achieve spiritual liberation, which saves them from endless re-incarnated lifetimes of ever-increasing spiritual misery - what they call the 'dwindling spiral' of existence. They are taught that family, children, money, life are all far less important than that spiritual goal. They will tell him that you are a suppressive, and that you are standing in the way of his route to spiritual freedom. He must sacrifice his relationship with you for the greater good. And he can save you later, perhaps in a future lifetime, when you come to your senses and stop being suppressive.

    This may all seem ridiculous to you. But your dad will take it very seriously. That's why you should think about whether you want to reveal details that can expose your identity to them.
     
  11. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    Hi Lotus. Your post is really helpful, BUT I just want to point out that, by including ***'s name in YOUR post, you have immortalised his name, so that even if he deletes it now, it will be visible in your post. He doesn't seem bothered about that, so probably no big deal. But I thought it worth pointing that out for future would-be-anonymous posters and their commenters....
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  12. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I really don't want to upset you any further but you may as well accept that you have already lost you Dad ... and until/unless he decides to leave scientology you will never have a genuine relationship with him ... scientology will always be more important than you or anyone else, they are in control (of him).

    Many of us have experienced what you are enduring (or similar) and really do feel for you but there is no point in trying to pretty up the reality and I doubt you would appreciate it if we did that.

    The best thing you could do is perhaps write to your Dad saying you understand he is doing what he wants to do and you hope that one day he will return to you ... and then leave him to it and get on with your own life. He may respond eventually (to losing you) but I wouldn't hold your breath.


    :rose:
     
  13. PleaseHelp

    PleaseHelp Patron

    After reading just the BT link that was posted I'm sorry to make fun of what you all obviously once believed in but HOW did you find that teaching credible?! I'm at a total loss to understand how you can learn that and be like "ok that seems legit". I understand wanting to be an amazing person spiritually etc but how does a sane and smart person not question any of that? I guess I'm wondering what he sees in all this that's believable. I'm in two minds about disconnection and perhaps foolishly so... on one hand it angers me a great deal that a "church" can't accept criticism and that even ex members of it feel they still need to hide their identity and I'm feeling somewhat defiant to it believing my father loves me enough but I've also seen enough stories to know entire families disconnect from a single person when they go against them. I don't know how any of you survived all this. One day of talking to you all and I'm exhausted. You're all amazing
     
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  14. Jim Dandy

    Jim Dandy Patron with Honors

    I disagree that she has already lost her Dad. As long as he doesn't join the SO she can have a relationship with him even though he's going to an Org, doing courses, getting auditing, going to events, etc...

    When I was in at one point my step-Mom and Dad started giving me some shit about being in Scientology. The Ethics Officer and the CS both encouraged me to work things out with them and to ONLY disconnect as a last resort. They even gave me advice and help in working things out with them. It worked. I did not end up disconnecting. But within a year or so I ended up coming to my senses and leaving Scientology anyway.

    Right now I have friends who are still in. They know I'm an ex and that I'm not "down with Scientology". But I don't bother them about it and they don't try to re-recruit me. We all get along just fine.
     
  15. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    How clever that YOU quoted lotus's post including the full name.....
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    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
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  16. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Many of us left after finding out about "BT's" ... but by the time we found out (and that can take many years because nobody is allowed to talk about it) a whole complicated mess is usually in place that makes it VERY hard to openly leave.

    You immediately lose every friend and family member that is involved in the cult (unless they leave with you, which is rare) and until the last few years risk being harrassed badly by the "office of special affairs'' was an issue for many.

    OSA has lost a lot of it's bite due to the exposure of the cult in the last decade or so but they will still try to harm you if they think they can get away with it.
     
  17. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I meant a genuine and meaningful relationship where the scientologist isn't just being a condescending tosser, but I'm glad it worked out OK for you.
     
  18. uncover

    uncover Gold Meritorious Patron

    Are you talking about Maaaaaty or Don Alonzo ? :cool:
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  19. Wilbur

    Wilbur Patron with Honors

    If you took a child and told them "your descendents way back were apes", then without any context, they might find that ridiculous. The reason many people accept evolution is that there is a back story of theory and evidence. When you're taught the back story, it makes sense, and it's not difficult to believe.

    You've just been told there are body thetans attached to your body that need to be audited off. Without context, it sounds ridiculous. But most Scientologists will spend maybe a decade in the church, absorbing the back story and context, before they encounter BTs. By then, it makes perfect sense (to many, anyway).
     
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  20. lotus

    lotus autonomous rebellous

    I get it.

    May I suggest you put a small note in your signature, like I did (for my poor english) telling your dad is in, but, you were never in, so don't know about $cientology lingo.

    Thus people will pay attention to speak normal to you instead of $cientologese.

    Glad you edited your post to redact though! ;)