How is it possible to remember Past Lives? A Reply to the Sceptics

Discussion in 'Human Potential, Self Discovery' started by Teanntás, Sep 6, 2011.

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  1. Teanntás

    Teanntás Patron Meritorious

    We had quite a discuusion on Michael Newton. Let's take a look at Roger J. Woolger. Lots of material available online.

    Roger J. Woolger, PhD, is a British-born Jungian analyst, past-lives therapist and creator of Integral Regression Therapy. Roger is internationally known as a pioneer in the area of transpersonal psychology. He holds degrees from Oxford and London Universities and the C.G. Jung Institute in Zurich, Switzerland. His book on past life therapy, Other Lives, Other Selves, is considered a definitive work in the field............

    http://www.rogerwoolger.com/pages/septics.html (yes, it does read 'septics' :biggrin:)

    http://www.rogerwoolger.com/pastlife.html

    http://www.deepmemoryprocess.com/page26aa.html
     
  2. smartone

    smartone My Own Boss

    What I can't understand is this preoccupation with past lives. What benefits are there in finding out who we WERE. So what.

    THIS present life is the one we need to live and enjoy to the fullest we can. Always bearing in mind that to show gratitude and kindness is the best way to live it.
     
  3. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    The lives themselves aren't of importance. What is of importance is the pattern of cause & effects which result from decisions made. Events from past lives & present lives both can illuminate patterns of thought & decision-making of which an individual may not be otherwise readily aware. Any endeavor which sheds light on such patterns is useful, past life techniques among them.


    Mark A. Baker
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2011
  4. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Crusader

    Well said.
     
  5. Teanntás

    Teanntás Patron Meritorious

    Agreed that we should live and enjoy the present life to the fullest. Having a broader view and walking up from amnesia might give us some more moments that would 'take our breath away':biggrin:
     
  6. JimJam

    JimJam Patron with Honors

    Speaking as a skeptic (we use the "k" in the U.S. rather than the "c"), none of those links would convince any skeptic.
    The reason being is they make reference to anecdotal stories, usually with very little info for a person to research further.

    There may be some clinical study that really tries to test the hypothesis that people claiming to recall past life memories is just that. But I am not currently aware of any.

    I know organisations like the IIG and James Randi Educational Foundation both offer money and publicity for any reproducible proof of paranormal abilities or similar...and proof of past life would qualify.

    It would change the world if it was ever proven.
     
  7. Reasonable

    Reasonable Silver Meritorious Patron

    There is too much gobuldy gook style information here. If you want to show me proof of past lives please just show me the proof.

    Find 100 people and have them recall past lives with specific things who exactly they were, where did they live family. Specifics then see if they are true.

    I am not a skeptic. I really hope past lives are real. I would love to know that I am coming back. But i am realistic enough to say I don't know and if there were real proof it would be out as this would be a big discovery.

    again when you have proof let us know
     
  8. Teanntás

    Teanntás Patron Meritorious

    There is a problem with 'proof', however. You cannot prove biology with physics, nor can you explain mind with biology. Attempting to do so has been called a 'category error' (Ken Wilber et al). I wonder if Randi has said anything about 'spooky action at a distance' (the apparent violation of the speed limit of the transmission of information). It would seem a more formidable challenge than any 'mind over matter' phenomena.
     
  9. Teanntás

    Teanntás Patron Meritorious

    There is a lot of information out there ( good bad and indifferent) but the research is in its infancy.
    Here's some

    http://www.mikepettigrew.com/afterlife/html/science_s_view1.html
     
  10. JimJam

    JimJam Patron with Honors


    One can certainly try to prove past lives
    tests would have to involve many subjects. It would be optimal if the subjects and the person who tries to facilitate the memories have never met ( to prevent even accidental data contamination), and viewers who can research the statements made by the people purporting to remember past lives in real time.

    If a person accepts statements made by people regarding past lives without any proof, it should not be surprising that people who require proof when extraordinary claims are made, scoff.

    So I do maintain those links would do nothing to actually affect how a skeptic views past life memories.
     
  11. Teanntás

    Teanntás Patron Meritorious

    I think if you were to read some of the books available you will find that the researchers (or at least some of them) proceed on the lines that you mention. Of couse there is always room for improvement - it is the nature of science.

    http://www.rogerwoolger.com/pages/booklist.html

    Here is Woolger speaking and like in his books he is not at all dogmatic. He doesn't assert any 'proof' of past lives eg

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwbLLRCpEVg
     
  12. Voltaire's Child

    Voltaire's Child Fool on the Hill

    Even if a person were to undergo tests that showed he recalled places he'd never been to, I think there could be arguments made that he read, forgot and subconsciously internalized books or newspaper articles or conversations about those places.

    or that he was making it up, say, if it were about a person who lived a long time ago.

    Or even that he psychically picked someone else's brain who'd been to that place, without realizing it.

    One can always explain things or explain them away. So in the end, all we have re esoteric thingies is what's in our hearts.
     
  13. LongTimeGone

    LongTimeGone Silver Meritorious Patron

    I thought Hubbard DID show his amazing ability to remember past lives in his book "Mission into Time".

    Look at the vast wealth he was able to recover from his previous life hidden caches.

    Oh...wait.

    LTG
     
  14. JimJam

    JimJam Patron with Honors

    A protocol could be devised to take these issues into account. It would be harder the farther back the "memory" goes, but if the recalled memory involved a person more recently where people who knew them occurred...that could be interesting.
    Or if the person recovers a memory from a culture they should reasonably know nothing about. If the memories are false, they are more likely to reflect what this person thinks another culture is like based on movies or books written by those not of that culture...thus being easier to spot.
    These are just off the top of my head.
    The first step would be for a person to contact a group willing to test to see if an initial demonstration leads anywhere.
     
  15. Freeminds

    Freeminds Bitter defrocked apostate

    Simple mathematics provided me with a satisfactory proof that past lives were impossible.

    There are more homo sapiens now living, than have lived and died in all of history.

    This means there aren't enough past lives for each person to have had even one... and why do believers always 'remember' times and places from Hollywood movies? (Few people ever claim to have lived an unremarkable life as a fisherman on a small island. Instead, they always remember vikings with horned helmets, the court of King Arthur, and other historical fallacies.)

    Wishful thinking.
     
  16. JimJam

    JimJam Patron with Honors

    All true.

    Which might be why Hubbard added the past lives of aliens to the mix.
     
  17. You guys obviously don't remember between lives waiting in long lines for several centuries.

    I actually have a theory that the Body Thetans are the good guys and we're infecting them.

    The Anabaptist Jacques
     
  18. Operating DB

    Operating DB Truman Show Dropout

    How bizarre. I was just thinking of the validity of past lives last night upon going to bed. Being a hardcore skeptic I thought that if someone could actually remember their last life, what their name was, where they lived and when and where they died then one could go to the city clerks office and look up their death certificate and actually find their grave and also interview their living progeny and prove once and for all the validity of past lives (unless someone created an elaborate hoax). To date on one has done this as far as I know.

    (And from the spelling nazi the correct spelling is "gobbledygook')
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2011
  19. ClamSource

    ClamSource Patron with Honors

    Past lives have already been thoroughly debunked by Professor Alan Sokal of New York University, in his famous paper "Transgressing the Boundaries: Towards a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity".
     
  20. FoTi

    FoTi Crusader

    I don't think there will ever be any way to "prove", to someone else, that a person has past lives. Even if they got all the facts correct, what if they are just tuning into someone else's life in history, whether they think it's their own or not. How could one possibly "prove" who's memory it is or where the information is coming from? There is no way to measure that or "prove" it, one way or the other, no matter how many case studies are done.....is there?

    Seems to me past lives are in the realm of personal experience or personal opinion.....the mental or spiritual realm.....not in the realm of science where people try to "prove" their theories in some sort of concrete, measurable form.
     

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