How people get "cemented in" to Scientology

[JustSheila]

I'd like to add, too, that what George Layton wrote may explain why die-hard scns who come to this Board often use generalities, ad homs, misdirectors and personal insults rather than engage in actual, rational, logical discussion. Some actively seek to undermine, criticize and hurt those who have left COS. The words written can be excessively cruel in their attempts to undermine and try to deny the crimes committed by their church, Founder, followers and even themselves. Some even devoting entire websites to try to discredit and demean individuals.

Personally, I don't have much of a problem with Freezoners, beyond false claims and advertising. The zealots are another story altogether. There is of course, the child that died in an SO style daycare facility run by Helen Chen, there are the comments and complete lack of compassion demonstrated by Helen Chen's staff who refused to help Alice Wu without charging high rates when she was suffering and in urgent need as a horrible casualty of the ruthlessness of the Church of Scientology and gave the cold rationale that Alice Wu's suffering was because, "life is a game."

Cruel words and selfish acts by those who have completely lost their sense of compassion, humanity and moral compass.

Alice Wu story: http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthre...n-Sea-Org-Headquarter-Dundas-Australia/page13

 

[Free Being Me]

The first thing a cult does is tell you everyone else is lying. - James Randi
(That's Elcon and Slappy and $cientology in a nutshell)

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Goodbye has reminded me of what it felt like to be a "PC" in a scientology session ... I was always aware that I must word things "carefully and appropriately" (to keep the auditor "winning"). I knew I was in the hands of people who were more concerned with their own agendas than with anything I ever had to say or with how I was really feeling ... I never felt safe or relaxed, not even once.

Enjoy being a faux therapist Goodbye ... but (if you have any decency left in you) go and enjoy it as far away from here as possible ... and take your insults with you. A professional would never say (or possibly even think) the things you came here to say.

 

[Goodbye]

Pray tell how and when you came into possession of your limited infos.

I can't recall where and when I got that info. Someone may just have suggested it. As I stated, it's the infos I have, I'm not ascertaining anything.

According to whom? You know this for a fact? For example, the "Hubbard/Heinlein Correspondence" was compiled and published long after 1990.

As above. I have, or perhaps have had limited infos as I have answered earlier and above.

The data in respect to "Hubbard/Heinlein Correspondence" was the post of someone else.

Pat Broeker (whom I personally knew and interacted with) was not "Source", was subsequently eviscerated by the Cof$, was not "Tech" trained and was "covering the bases" for whatever would come next from the Cabal of CMO Children of the Corn.[/B]

I have not claimed he was source, I've stated what he said during a videotaped event about the tech.

Did you personally know and interact with El Ron or Pat Broeker?

Again, I reiterate I have limited infos. I have not claimed any veracity of these infos either. Limited infos is what I had stated.

Obviously--at least to me--you're "hanging your hat" on a rudimentary study/experience with "The Materials"

I've never claimed otherwise. I always appreciate any new infos. Don't read any strawmen into my post anything I haven't stated or have supposedly stated such "clever PR Hyping" which was never on my mind. You should reread it, there is no hype of any sort in it, cold cut dry infos I was in possession of. A very simple post, and I always appreciate new infos if you have them.

 

[WildKat]

Just this morning I went back to Feral's thread, started in 2008, and actually read through all the rest of the pages (all 28 of them!) I am a fast reader and I read ONLY what Feral wrote, not all the comments back-and-forth, so it only took part of a morning.

If I had one wish, it would be for all those people still trapped in the cult on endless OT VII, or endless retreads, or even those aspiring to get to OT VII and VIII....that they could ALL read Feral's story. I think they would all identify fairly closely with his experiences. And it could be a lifeline and hope for some.

Oh, and thank you Goodbye, for bumping Feral's thread originally, and bringing many more people to take a look at it. I'm not going to engage you anymore, I just wish you well in your Indy endeavors. If someone wants to audit in the Freezone, minus abuses of the official "church" then have at it.

I really wish you well.

Oh, and here's the link again to Feral's story.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?7524-My-bridge-to-OTVII

 

[Gib]

snip......
I've never claimed otherwise. I always appreciate any new infos. Don't read any strawmen into my post anything I haven't stated or have supposedly stated such "clever PR Hyping" which was never on my mind. You should reread it, there is no hype of any sort in it, cold cut dry infos I was in possession of. A very simple post, and I always appreciate new infos if you have them.

What Face means is you have fallen for the PR hype of the COS/Hubbard. We all did as well, well, at least I did, can't speak for everybody.

 

[I told you I was trouble]

Snipped.

I'm always extremely critical of the accuracy of any story about Scientology since most people who have left the CO$ have axes to grind, agendas to belabor, which often lend themselves to exaggeration, falsehood and altered perspective.

Are you also extremely critical of the accuracy, exaggeration, falsehoods, altered perspective and delusions that your "PC's" disclose while in session?

How many "past life Napoleon's" have you had this week?

 

[Goodbye]

If someone wants to audit in the Freezone, minus abuses of the official "church" then have at it.

It seems based on this statement you are not aware why people come into the FZ, or what they do there -- they've had enough of the CO$, want auditing and training. I'm not aware Independent SCN offers anything else. No staff, no SO, no IAS, no hype events, no regging, no stats to collect.

That's the key problem for Scientologists with the CO$ ... too many distractions from auditing and training. Furthermore, no agenda exists (at least that I have seen) to FSM anyone out here, no arms to twist. They may promote their services on the web, but you shouldn't get any harassment to sign up for anything. They don't care what you want to do with your life. SCN has a bad rap in the public domain and these folks just get on doing their own thing. They don't attack you, pointless to attack them back.

 

[phenomanon]

Pray tell how and when you came into possession of your limited infos.

Not according to El Ron. Throughout the written and audio taped materials, El Ron states repetitively that the "research" began in the 1920's and the "Tech" was first "applied" to others--and Hisself--at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital during the months (1945-46) following the end of WWII.

According to whom? You know this for a fact? For example, the "Hubbard/Heinlein Correspondence" was compiled and published long after 1990.

Pat Broeker (whom I personally knew and interacted with) was not "Source", was subsequently eviscerated by the Cof$, was not "Tech" trained and was "covering the bases" for whatever would come next from the Cabal of CMO Children of the Corn.

I personally knew and interacted with El Ron. I was on the Apollo and Privy to the Genus of the "Archives Project" that the Cof$ has, is and will use to continually come up with something "New" via "Recovered/Discovered 'Lost Tech'" to sell...Per the Original El Ron "Archives Project" Orders.

Goodbye...

Did you personally know and interact with El Ron or Pat Broeker?

Were you on the Apollo?

Obviously--at least to me--you're "hanging your hat" on a rudimentary study/experience with "The Materials" and fallacious (albeit very clever) PR Hype of Scn, coupled with a far less than cursory reading/digesting of the factual (supported by Docs) First Hand Accounts on ESMB from Folks that were everything from "original" (LRH Trained) Class XII , FEBC & DSEC (Apollo), SHSBC & OEC (St. Hill) to Public OT VIII's (various iterations), Mission Holders, "Old Timers" ('50's-'60's) to SO/Staff (Apollo, Int, AOSH, Org, Mission, etc) and thousands of practicing--from 4 days to 4+ decades--Scns.

Face

 

[phenomanon]

Aren't you Bookem Danno too? Or are you Bookem Danno 2?

No. It isn't Bookem.

 

[Hypatia]

I've yet to come across one ...

I have. In the Freezone. I've seen a couple of them make what seemed to me to be an appalling number of excuses for da cherch. Fortunately, it wasn't a majority.

 

[Hypatia]

Yes, the hypocracy runs deep.

Based on that line of reasoning I guess I could safely assume your CO$-exit story consists of accusing the CO$ of those things you have done yourself. So much for victimhood.


Whatever you consider "Inflamatory" also happens to be true.

Yet someone who practices SCN is freely denigrated and attacked around here? That's not something that would come to your attention would it? Would ruin the one-way street narrative.

A post above even stated J & D'd for practicing SCN in Independent Scientology.

Not insensitive? But you don't see that?

Apples and oranges. Two different issues.

This msg board is mostly exes-with a few exceptions. Many of them have suffered or their friends and family had. They're not going to be really happy with any statement or implication that any ex whose told his story is lying. I remember talking about my experiences years ago elsewhere and some cherch dipshit was trying to dismiss what I said. I thought he was an asshole.

As far as indies go - I'm perhaps a little more open to their rights and interests than a few of my friends here. It would be nice if everyone got along but it's just not going to happen. And, like it or not, we all have the right to talk about all things Scientological and how we feel. It's bound to eventually upset someone but that's just the way it is.

 

[Goodbye]

What Face means is you have fallen for the PR hype of the COS/Hubbard. We all did as well, well, at least I did, can't speak for everybody.

Really of little importance to me whether it's 1947, the 20s or some other date. I just idly mentioned it in passing in response to your query. If my post merely had a date wrong, not the end of the world, I still conveyed to you what you asked for, and whatever data I had on it. I wouldn't consider this as 'fallen for anything", it's just way too insignificant to me.

 

[Veda]

From several years ago. Proudly posted in the, then, "Tech outside the CofS" section of ESMB, a Success Story from a person who thinks he's going to "go to OT XV with Pierre" Ethier.

"On the 19th of February, 2010 I attested to OTVII. When Pierre asked if I would like to attest, I felt the burden of millions of years of enslavement finally lift from my shoulders...

I retired from my job in 2001 and I reevaluated my position in Scientology. I had about $150,000. in my savings. I could either leave that money for my kids to spend when I died or I could spend it on myself in Scientology. Even though I had made no attempt to get additional training or processing for 37 years, I chose the latter.

...It is now my intention to go to OT XV with Pierre. I look forward to what I know will be an exciting and very rewarding journey"...​

________​

Is there anyone who would like to recommend an Independent/FZ auditor from the list of publicly known and active Independent/Freezone auditors?

Does Goodbye have a recommendation?

On this MB, a few days ago, there was a hypothetical situation of helping someone leave the Organization by having him speak - on the phone - with a FZ auditor, but who?

 

[Goodbye]

As far as indies go - I'm perhaps a little more open to their rights and interests than a few of my friends here.

I'll take your sentiment on par for what it is, but no one in Indieland cares whether you are "open" to it or not, neither here nor there to anyone. They do their own thing, nothing to push or pawn off on anyone. The CO$ takes a different tack -- get on board with the THINK or get SP declared -- neither of which has any bearing on auditing and training in the FZ. I'm just stating this as general information to separate CO$ from Indieland because some people still think it's the same thing.

And, like it or not, we all have the right to talk about all things Scientological and how we feel. It's bound to eventually upset someone but that's just the way it is.

I suggest you not assume Indie SCNs deny your right to talk about things Scientological pros or cons. It's possible, just like you may agree or disagree with something, so will they, and discussion ensues. No need to denigrate into fights, insults, cutting anyone down, etc. Also keep in mind when you make disparaging comments about any given poster himself you are no longer discussing a topic, but are baiting someone to attack back.

 

[Hypatia]

I'll take your sentiment on par for what it is, but no one in Indieland cares whether you are "open" to it or not, neither here nor there to anyone. They do their own thing, nothing to push or pawn off on anyone. The CO$ takes a different tack -- get on board with the THINK or get SP declared -- neither of which has any bearing on auditing and training in the FZ. I'm just stating this as general information to separate CO$ from Indieland because some people still think it's the same thing.


I suggest you not assume Indie SCNs deny your right to talk about things Scientological pros or cons. It's possible, just like you may agree or disagree with something, so will they, and discussion ensues. No need to denigrate into fights, insults, cutting anyone down, etc. Also keep in mind when you make disparaging comments about any given poster himself you are no longer discussing a topic, but are baiting someone to attack back.

You asked me what I thought about people on ESMB denigrating Indie and FZ Scientology. So I responded.

I suggest you knock the chip off your shoulder and try to remember what you posted.

 

[George Layton]

Really of little importance to me whether it's 1947, the 20s or some other date. I just idly mentioned it in passing in response to your query. If my post merely had a date wrong, not the end of the world, I still conveyed to you what you asked for, and whatever data I had on it. I wouldn't consider this as 'fallen for anything", it's just way too insignificant to me.

You have brought to me a memory of a poem long time past:

This written with the law of response in mind,
In regard to the mountain of letters from friends.
Not justified saying, "My time's done being kind,"
None other shall suffice but MY acts of amends.
Oh I promised of writing and willingly admit,
That I've bragged at my fluency at such a task.
But proposals quite differ than sitting down to it,
For I crave instant answers to the questions I ask.
You see in writing those letters I find half way through,
And please pardon my arrogant airs.
I've adlibbed better answers than I could get from you,
And in closing I sign it, "Who Cares?"
So you see though I have sent a letter or three,
Lovingly in the care of U.S. Mail.
Compared to the outflow that I send to thee,
My intake will always prevail.

 

[Goodbye]

I have. In the Freezone. I've seen a couple of them make what seemed to me to be an appalling number of excuses for da cherch. Fortunately, it wasn't a majority.

Some are CO$ plants, but more so on these type of boards in the past than nowadays. Too many anti's, ex's and FZers out here these days rendering much of their sh*t disturbing a complete waste of their time. They were very effective infiltrating small start-up groups in the past, but they lost control -- it's grown way too large.

 

[Veda]

-snip-

but they lost control -- it's grown way too large.

Where? This? Are you kidding?

[video=youtube;9EMm_fOB5XU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EMm_fOB5XU[/video]

 

[Free Being Me]

I believe ESMB is a vital safe haven for Ex's. Particularly the Stories From Inside Scientology sub-forum. It takes guts sharing a story about an evil cult posted on the internet for all to read. And ESMB is enriched with those stories giving others the courage to do the same while deconstructing Elcon's mind control cult so people can recover and reassemble their lives sans the cult.

Taking into account Elcon wrote his cult mandated policies to Fair Game, Black P.R. and Dead Agent anyone and everyone daring to speak out against $cientology et al, I call bullshit on Goodbye's semantic shenanigan wordclown sliming of a very important freedom here at ESMB.

Don't let a $cientologist deter you from speaking out sharing what happened to you while in $cientology.