I need real answers in real English! Please!

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Michele_B, Feb 12, 2012.

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  1. Michele_B

    Michele_B Patron

    For more information about me, see "Thank you everyone" in the intro threads.T
    Scientology is a constant argument in my home. My boyfriend is a Scientologist, not practicing right now but has all the damn books and reads them constantly. Whenever there is an arguement, he reaches for the all knowing memos. Here's the thing, he doesn't have any real answers for anything.
    I hear the term, "The Tech Works." but cannot get a real answer on what the Hell this means. He told me, "it makes the able more able." Really? What does that mean???? I'm a single mom with a stable job and a Buddhist, which is not really a religion but a set of principles that I live by, so how is it exactly that I'm not able? I have yet to get a real answer. He says that it shows you why you behave the way you do by auditing and recalling past lives and discovering who you are. I say, who the hell cares who I was. I have past lives but that that doesn't help me NOW! If you make the same bad choices, over and over, it doesn't matter why. What matters is how you live NOW and how you treat others and how much you give back. His attitude is, "its just how I am." Now doesn't matter. Life is a blink of an eye and this life means nothing. I can now understand why the suicide rate in Scientology is so high with that attitude!
    The other thing that bugs me is why all of you ex scientologists never discuss the details of these past lives. Maybe its because details might get you recognized and therefore, harrassed? Well, I think its important. What we are talking about are hallucinations and delusions right? Isn't that grounds for discussion? What are some of these recalls so similar? Is it suggested? Some of his recalls include being in a doll body on Mars, or remembering the first time that he "died" and was told that he couldn't "play" anymore. He remembers coming to Earth and being tricked into staying. He remembers being at an implant station and talking to someone who felt guilty about bringing him there. He remembers the first time he was made to have a body and was at an implant station and someone asked how to get out of this so he slit his own throat and caused a chain reaction and got in very bad trouble for it. Seriously, these are things he actually BELIEVES! Is it true? Did someone suggest this to him? Why does no one talk about this? And then there is this Nancy chick. Nancy was this magical OTIII at the Mission in Houston. He insists that he was married to her for millions of years and killed her several times. He is completely in love with her, even though there was never a sexual or close relationship between the two of them. I need to find this woman. She may be the only one that can snap him out of this shit. And because she is his "group", I will never see a marriage or a commitment from this man, over all of these delusions. The scariest stuff is when he was diagnosed with an illness last year that is not curable, but not life threatening either. He started talking about getting a new body and not wanting to play anymore. I swear, this stuff is absolutely NUTS! Please, I've got to know what the hell happened to him. What was done to him? Where does this shit come from? Please help me.
     
  2. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    I suggest (as painful as it may be) to DUMP that boyfriend and go totally into the WOG world and leave all that is Scientology related behind you (including this boyfriend).

    I think that you owe this to yourself and your future happiness.

    You will get over it... just give it time.
     
  3. Type4_PTS

    Type4_PTS Diamond Invictus SP

    I would have to concur.


    It sounds like he's accepting ideas from a bat-shit crazy cult that I was involved with myself for 10 years.

    If he is someone who you intend to have a serious relationship with it could have a seriously negative effect on your own life. (that's putting it mildly)

    I'd recommend reading some Steve Hassan for starters. It will answer your questions I quoted.
    http://freedomofmind.com/Media/books.php
     
  4. Div6

    Div6 Crusader

    Being of a Buddhist persuasion, you have some understanding of siddhis, I assume.
    The reason Scngsts don't talk about the past life stuff openly is along the same lines.
    Further to that, in the last 30+ years the Scn group has vectored away from enlightenment and embraced the "destructive, controlling" nature. They would rather take some one and "stick" them into a past incident and leave them there....and then demand $$$ to "fix" it.

    Bad JuJu. Stay away.

    As for his fixation on the other person...this is another Very Bad Indicator. Low responsibility, and manifests responsibility as "blame", not "what have I caused".

    If its a soul mate you are looking for, I would take this one back as "damaged goods" and get a new one....
     
  5. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    How did you meet this person to begin with?

    What was the VERY beginning?
    Is that a fair question to ask?

    (Most SCN don't talk about the doll bodies or cat bodies nor know about what LRH said about it.
    But I don't want to get off on a tangent about this.)
     
  6. solo

    solo Patron with Honors

    Hi Michele B

    The official Scientology line on talking about past lives is that you're not supposed to discuss anything to do with your "case" or anything revealed during auditing. I think that exes don't talk about it because they are either embarrassed they ever believed in it, don't know whether to believe in it any more, or find it irrelevant.

    Anyway, your boyfriend obviously still believes in it and yes, I would say he has been encouraged to believe in the space opera stuff, because Ron Hubbard talks about it in his lectures and Scientologists find that exciting.

    I think your attitude to past lives is healthy and practical. I am also of a Buddhist persuasion, so I do believe I've lived before and that belief predates my involvement with Scientology. However, I am no longer convinced that the past lives I "recalled" in auditing were real.

    It's true that Scientology somehow brings a person into a mindset that this life doesn't matter, he can just "get a new body" and people "pull in" the bad things that happen to them. It does make its believers rather callous and separate from others.

    I don't think finding the OTIII woman will be particularly helpful at this time. I also don't think you will be able to get your boyfriend to give up Scientology by arguing with him, but it's a good idea to try and understand what's going on with him.

    I hope we can help.

    Solo
     
  7. Michele_B

    Michele_B Patron

    I have made one good stride and that was agreeing that the church is against my belief in not causing the suffering of others and the church hurts people, He does not deny that and he knows about what I have learned on this board and from other sources. There will be no involvement.
     
  8. solo

    solo Patron with Honors

    That's really good news. How does he rationalise the fact that the church hurts people,if it's supposed to be "the most ethical group on the planet"?

    One thing you should be aware of, if you are not already, and that is the subject of disconnection. If he tries to take services in the church, the subject of your relationship is bound to arise. If you are thought to be "antagonistic" to his involvement in Scientology, he will be ordered to "handle" you or to disconnect from you before he can continue. This often ends up in disconnection. You may well be labelled as a "suppressive person" and he will be labelled as a "potential trouble source" for being associated with you. This isn't easy to resolve. However, good on you for saying you won't get involved, that has put the ball in his court.

    Solo
     
  9. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    Past life recalls are very iffy. There's very rarely any way to check their truth. Most of them are indeed suggested: Hubbard said it was like so-and-so and hundreds of people dutifully see and recount such incidents in their sessions. Do they believe such things really happened? Depends on the individual. Some of mine I thought a bit far-fetched, but some I believed in thoroughly. A few I still do (but not the famous people ones any more, and not the Hubbard-suggested ones).

    Someone on ESMB said that normal people have opinions, but Scientologists have references (citations of what Hubbard said). It is so true.

    Personally I discount any stories I see on ESMB of someone's past lives. I rarely even bother to read the details. What's the point? It's about as useful as dream analysis.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  10. Student of Trinity

    Student of Trinity Silver Meritorious Patron

    How could one check up on a past life memory? I'm guessing the memories are always either free of language, or presumed to have been somehow translated into modern language by the recall process itself. So linguistic checking seems hard.

    But aren't there memories of basic practices of daily life? "When I lived in ancient Rome I used to shave with olive oil and this piece of sharp glass I kept." That sort of thing? A lot of that kind of thing can be checked, at least to some degree. Of course, that also means it's hard to rule out the possibility that such a memory is an unconscious fabrication based on a forgotten glance into a history book.

    I'm afraid I personally doubt all past life memories, just from the negative evidence that I've never heard of anyone recalling anything useful, or even testable, except in cases where the testing promptly led to debunking. If the memories were real, I would think that we'd have gotten some big news from some of them by now.
     
  11. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    When I recall even this-lifetime events the actual words rarely come to mind, although the feelings do.

    I've found the things that come to mind from past lives (true or not) tend to be extreme, like getting your throat cut unexpectedly, not going shopping for the day's groceries. In a random-access database you can find mundane records, but life's banal stuff isn't so accessible. It's much easier to remember the first time you had sex (maybe 40 years ago) than lunch last Tuesday.

    Paul
     
  12. TheRealNoUser

    TheRealNoUser Patron with Honors

    Michele_B, he sounds psychotic even by Scientology standards, and that's saying something. He is a dangerous liability to have in your life and will only drag you in and down with him.

    I realize that you may have a serious emotional investment with this person, but you owe it to yourself and your friends and family to ditch this nutcase. You will not be able to reason with him - his mind is shot, and his critical thinking capabilities are zero. He is a complete cult-bot, and will only try to infect more of your friends and family with his Scieno-psychobabble nonsense.

    If he has not done so already (which I suspect he already has) he will soon be "borrowing" money from you, and never pay you back. He will later justify this to himself by telling himself that you are an S.P (suppressive person). This is a Scientology term that Scienos use for anyone who does not agree with Scientology or is critical in any way.

    All the terms and crap that he is spewing are just things that he has swallowed from Hubbard books - that's all. It's not even real. However, the "killing his previous wife" part sounds very, very dangerous. Get out of there fast. Do not give him any warning that's you are leaving, just get a friend or two to help you move .... preferably big guys.

    I sincerely hope that you can extricate yourself from this relationship. Best of luck, and please keep us informed.

    Best,

    TRNU.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  13. La La Lou Lou

    La La Lou Lou Crusader

    There are many nice guys out there, uncomplicated ones, ones that can answer a question without looking up the answer.

    It is possible for a 'scientologist' to disentangle his or herself from this dependence, but it's very much like alcohol addiction. It's not easy and he has to have a reason to put in the effort. It is a very strong habit.

    Also for him it's a way of avoiding the concept of death. Death is final. That whole package of being the person you are ends when the heart stops, the house is no longer yours, you no longer own anything, not even your body. So regardless of souls, that person you were is dead. That finality is hard to take, especially for a man who has been told of his mortality by a doctor. We will all die, it's the one thing we do know. Perhaps he is terrified of thinking about that.

    He certainly is holding on to the subject like a drowning man hanging on to a very small plank of wood.

    He really must have something you like about him, or do you just pity him?
     
  14. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Ain't that the truth? We are born, live, then die. It's the cycle of life on this planet.
    This is a very unpleasant thought for most people.

    For me, I'll just buy a big house this year (during this big housing price crash) and enjoy it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  15. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    And sweetnessandlight will say "thankyou" to anything, even on conflicting views.
     
  16. Panda Termint

    Panda Termint Cabal Of One

    You could actually save your boyfriend a whole lot of heartache by simply telling him you stumbled across the Ex Scientologist Message Board and was quite fascinated to find all kinds of interesting people here. People who have done the entire scientology Bridge, people who have spent decades as dedicated scientologists and done all or most of the scientology Auditor and Administration Training, people who have held Senior positions at all levels of Technical and Administrative posts in various scientology Organisations, people who have worked directly with L Ron Hubbard... then tell him that, whilst these people are quite varied and different as individuals, the one thing they have in common is that they have all left the Church Of Scientology. They are no longer scientologists.

    Ask him what he thinks about that and see how it goes. Good Luck. :)
     
  17. Oneflewover

    Oneflewover Patron with Honors

    He's still a Scientologist. He's still in the grip. What do you really think will be the result if she persuades him to come here and read? Do you think it will make anything easier for her to come to terms with what she wants to do with this relationship she's perplexed over?

    I don't think it'll work out well to take that approach.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  18. Oneflewover

    Oneflewover Patron with Honors

    Michelle, if you've been reading here, you must have some sense about what a difficult journey it is back out of the nightmarish altered reality experienced and embraced in the cult of Scientology. Many here have been out of the cult for years or even decades, and still haven't managed to rinse the residue away.

    It's a very insidious cult. It creeps into all the cracks and zips the human back up behind itself, so nothing contradictory can get in.

    I see your dilemma, in trying to determine whether you'll be able to find a happy medium with this guy, and have a life. It's not impossible, but almost so. It depends on his disposition to all of what you are trying to work out.

    You have doubts, but what you need to understand, is that he does not. He's not allowed to. And it just gets worse and worse the higher he goes.

    There will never be a happy medium of live and let live. You're disagreements with Scientology will show up in one of his sessions, and that will be the end of it. He will go to their ethics department and the eventual result will be an enforced split from you. They have no other way of dealing with such a situation, other than convincing you to become absorbed into the cult and getting yourself with their program.

    You already know what he'll never find out in Scientology. That today and right now is what matters and the only thing that matters. He's got that Scientological attitude that reverses that completely and insanely.

    If he continues inside the cult, and you continue outside, it can only end one way (99.99% of the time - The .001% are those who entered the cult with their eyes open, for reasons of their own, and had the experience of being "in" the cult without ever crossing the line over to "of" the cult.

    Your boyfriend will be seeing you as someone in "need of handling" which of course presumes there is something wrong with you, which of course there isn't.

    Do you see the unfoldment of all of this when you look at it in these terms?

    If you do, you really only need to ask yourself if this is how you want to live.

    You almost certainly will not change him, because he's not in doubt about what he's doing. He thinks you are the one with the problem. He may be concerned you won't make it up their bridge. (the bridge to the same place you started out, except now you're broke)

    Sorry if any of my assumptions are off the mark. But as a general expectation of how this will unfold, I'd be surprised if I was very far off the mark.
     
  19. Div6

    Div6 Crusader


    There is no question that a lot of what is run as past lives is "dub-in" early on in a "case". In my own experience, I ran "whole track recall" in my very first auditing session. But in places other than earth. So no way of verifying any of it. On OT III, there were a number of verifiable experiences that came in to view, on this planet. But they were buried under untold amounts of pain and grief, and were not anything to really "brag" about. If anything, it is humbling to realize the amount of pain and suffering and sacrifice we go through for our few moments of true pleasure...it's almost as if 'life in a body' is a bio-chemical addiction all of its own.

    Just to see if I can give you an idea of "how it rolls": one session on OT III I was registering a very high TA reading (indicating a large amount of resistive mental mass). I felt like crap, and didn't really want to have to deal with it (apathetic tone). But, the instructions said what they said, so I permeated the mental mass with my attention (confront, inner eye). Once I was willing to contact it, the "mass began to dissolve (as shown by the TA lowering dramatically on the meter) and the pictures became visible as it all began to dissipate).

    The essence of the incident was that I was involved with a guerrilla band, who had slept overnight in a barn on a farm near a river. In the early morning, opposing forces engaged in a raid on the farm, in which "I", in an effort to warn the guerrilla band, was shot and died. After session, in checking the date and location and group, I was able to verify that the incident did indeed occur, and the battle unfolded pretty much as I "saw", up until the point of bullet impact.

    Whoop-de-doo, as they say. Apart from the mental re-alignment that occurred for me, and the physical changes that occurred as a result (which is where the value lies with me), I'm now not going to run out and become a "re-enactor" or write a book about it or anything. It is an "upset in the past" I am free from, and do not have subconsciously clouding my "world view".

    Others Mileage may vary.
     
  20. GreyWolf

    GreyWolf Gold Meritorious Patron

    Actually, you can't argue with him because he is a believer. So just agree with him and tell him you know about Scientology making the "able more able". Then show him this list of http://outofscn.co.cc/viewforum.php?f=18 very able people.
     

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