Illness and Scientology

Discussion in 'General Scientology Discussion' started by Sharone Stainforth, Feb 12, 2008.

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  1. Sharone Stainforth

    Sharone Stainforth Silver Meritorious Patron

    I have been reading on OCMB about Scientologists getting ill and not receiving proper medical care due to belief that auditing will cure the problem.

    Cancer patients dying, who otherwise might have had a chance at survival had their cancer been diagnosed earlier.
    Scientology practicing medicine without a license.


    This is terrible.There are so many things wrong with the CoS.

    One thing i wonder about;
    Do women who are pregnant get audited whilst they are pregnant and what possible side effects might that have on the baby?

  2. ozzie

    ozzie Patron with Honors

    There is a pregnancy rundown. Don't know much about the tech side of it, but I have myself received this rundown while pregnant.

  3. Sharone Stainforth

    Sharone Stainforth Silver Meritorious Patron

    There is a pregnancy rundown. Don't know much about the tech side of it, but I have myself received this rundown while pregnant.

    I should like to know more about this,if and when you have the time.
  4. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    You may have old data about illness in Scn. When I was still in back in 2005 they wouldn't take me in session - I had to see a doctor. So, with the death of Lisa and all the fall-out from that, I believe you must seek medical treatment. If you have high blood pressure, I believe you can't even be in session at Flag. You must get it under control before. I think you can still train, but no sessions.

    There is a pregnancy assist (auditing). Never had it. But you can't audit a woman passed 6 months of pregnancy. I don't know if that's the entire bridge or just specific actions - such as dianetics. Maybe a tech trained person can clear up all of our confusions on this matter.
  5. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I remember an HCOB forbidding "upper level actions" (Power and up, I think) after 6 months (I think). I guess the theory was that a thetan connected with the baby might get treated as a "body thetan" and blown. Normal assists were OK, but not Dianetic ones. After the birth, Dianetics was OK again.

  6. Lovesnightsky

    Lovesnightsky Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes, there is a pregnancy rundown thing, but I don't know the actual name. And auditing does stop at 6 months. I saw a public getting the auditing. There is also assists. I was pregnant while on staff for 2 months (miscarried) and I have to say that I was treated very well. People were told not to shout or create any upsets in my vicinity and I was given assists to help with the morning sickness.

    With regard other illnesses, there is a Class V auditor at Plymouth Org called David Hutt. This auditor used to get epileptic fits. He had tons of them while auditing me, I would just wait for them to pass and then he would read up on where he was and continue the session.
    After he had a fit while auditing a public, and she screamed out loud in such a terrified manner that we all ran out to see what had happened... Susie (Senior C/S) and Vicky (OED) tried to get him to take regular meds, but he refused.
  7. Leon

    Leon Gold Meritorious Patron

    I don't know that the pregnancy rundown is a published set of formal steps - it's more an approach to a situation. much like Life Repair was always tailored to the individual person.

    But it would deal with any charge the person had regarding the preganacy, past births cleaned up and then generally get in comm with the new baby that is growing. An action well worth doing, it is easy auditing and mothers-to-be generally love it.
  8. ozzie

    ozzie Patron with Honors

    Well all I remember is it was called a "Rundown" I had one during and after a major miscarriage and one during pregnancy. It was a prepared set of actions, whether it was tailored to me I don't know. But it definately was called a rundown.

    As far as sickness and auditing goes - I remember a man at saint hill in the late sixties dying of cancer. He was allowed auditing. He was terminal and he was dying but he was given auditing to help him "drop his body". He died shortly after starting his auditing. He also had a scn funeral and much was said by his widow about how he had an easier time of letting go because of the auditing. In that case I think it helped the guy.

    In other cases I have seen people with epilepsy (myself included)be audited to try and "cure" it. Didn't work.

    I've also seen cancer cases be audited to try and "cure" it - didn't work!

    In these cases the normal medical help was refused or denied.

    To use Scn as a cure is wrong - but as above I saw it be used to alleviate suffering and it worked for that guy. Maybe it won't or didn't for others.

  9. Bea Kiddo

    Bea Kiddo Crusader

    A pregnancy RD is basically a set of processes programmed out by the C/S. Its rudiments and prepchecking and such on past births, anticipation of giving birth. Stuff like that.

    Upper level material cant be audited past 6 months of pregnancy. Same with KTL Clay Table auditing. Maybe others too. I forget.

    Any question, feel free to post and I will be happy to respond.
  10. Mark A. Baker

    Mark A. Baker Sponsor

    Seems to me that when the "tech" is used to help an individual in addressing the mental & spiritual aspects of his physical health problems, that is an appropriate use.

    Contrarily, when it is used as a means of "curing" a physical ailment, that is an abuse, both of the tech & of the pc's trust.

    If a physical condition is alleviated as a result of auditing that is great, but the proper use of the tech appears to me to be in handling the person's "upset" in experiencing the physical ailment.

    This is a distinction which a lot of spiritual traditions recognize & respect. It is particularly noticeable among Native American & shamanistic cultures, and even is recognized by "modern medical practice" (ref. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross) .

    Your examples I think illustrate this distinction.

    Mark A. Baker
  11. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    I've just had some disturbing news tonight. I trust the source of the info.

    One of the kids from Sydney, who joined CMO some years ago, is now back here in Sydney (after some years of being in the States), getting a "program" for a physical condition that sounds potentially deadly.

    This guy (he's maybe 25 now), is now at the base at Dundas, and is failing physically. He has been sent 'home' because he is ill. We have 'free' medical care here, but apparently he's not getting it (I don't know how long he was ill for, before he was sent back from the States). Apparently his dad went out to the base to pick him up and take him to a doctor, 'cause he's been back here for over two weeks now but hasn't yet seen a doctor about his condition. Reportedly, he refused to go with his dad, because the C/S has programmed him for a 'handling' and he's been told to get the program done first.

    Per the refs I know and knew too, one would always get medical treatment first, and then maybe have auditing as an assist to help in recovery. That's what we always did (or C/Sed for).

    Apparently the dad is very concerned, because he can't talk sense into the kid, and his life is at risk. By the same token though, I believe that the mum and the dad would be somewhat taking on board what the C/S says or has instructed. This scenario sounds too bizzare, but I have been told that this is what is occurring.

    Both parents are still 'in' and I'm on their black list, so I can't just call them up and speak to them directly. I last spoke with him when he called me from LA before Christmas, but I think he was calling for OSA - even if it were possible, it's not like I could just rock up to the base and say g'day. I have looked up the 'refs' that apply and I'll be forwarding them to someone who is still in contact with the dad, so the dad can then pass them on to him. Hopefully he will see some sense, see a doctor and get the tests and treatment he needs. I'm not sure what else to do at this point. This guy is no longer a minor, so it's not like we can get hold of some authority and report it.

    The trouble is, we are not talking about a young man who has lived life. He's a 3rd generation scn'ist. He joined Class V org staff when he was very young, then joined the SO while still very young, and has been without any familial support for some years now. Knowing his mother and the group think within the SO, he probably has the view that the medical profession is only good for fixing broken bones or something to succumb to in the case of a life and death emergency.

    For the record, a certain C/S from AOSH ANZO is playing with fire here (as he has many times before). I hope that this post is seen by someone who can see the potential 'threat' here and who has the authority to send an order down to AOSH ANZO, to get this young SO member the medical care that he is currently being denied - care that could potentially save his life.
  12. Free to shine

    Free to shine Shiny & Free

    How terribly sad. A young life could be lost and it makes me wonder how any parent could stand by and not start to see the truth of the matter. Good on you for trying Carmel, I hope something changes for this young man.
  13. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron

    God, this is sickening.

    Not taking any medication when he gets regular seizures is lunacy. Surely he must have realised by now that Scientology cannot cure his condition.

    Perhaps he will have read of what happened to Jett Travolta by now and seen some sense?

    I wouldn’t be surprised if he has been told to get medical treatment or even been thrown off staff now. The CoS don’t want any seriously ill people on their lines right now.

  14. Axiom142

    Axiom142 Gold Meritorious Patron


    I hope this guy gets some treatment very soon. Perhaps a anonymous letter to OSA mentioning that it wouldn’t be good PR if anything happened to him, might get some action?

    The idea that Scientologists don’t need medical treatment seems to be rather common.

    I had an argument with a long-term (ex-GO) Scientologist a couple of years ago about this. Well, I say argument, it was more a case of me politely asking a couple of questions and her getting rather angry and ranting at me, accusing me of being on the wrong side.

    Anyway, the gist of her ranting was that medical doctors were all as bad as Psychiatrists and in league with the pharmaceutical companies, acting with the sole aim of keeping mankind enslaved. And besides, why would Scientologists need to see a doctor when Scientology could handle any condition?

    This person is not just a fringe Scientologist, she is a well-known and very active member of the cult who runs one of the CoS front groups in the UK.

    The CoS has very publicly stated that they demand that all members get medical treatment when necessary, but it simply isn’t true. There are many who think that Scientology can handle all their problems. And continue thinking this until after it is too late.

    When I was in the Sea Org in ‘87, the HAS of St Hill Foundation had a pain in his lower abdomen. It just kept getting worse, but he refused to see a doctor (can’t interrupt the important business of saving a planet), just tried to ‘not-is’ the pain.

    Finally, he collapsed in agony and was rushed to hospital where he had his appendix removed. Apparently, it was so inflamed, it was about to burst. If they had delayed more than a few hours, he would have been dead.

  15. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    I remember this young man. I attended a wedding at his parents house in about '87 I nursed him as his folks were busy. I gave him his formula and burped him. He threw up a bit on my jacket. I kissed the top of his head.

    He is now 23.

    I will be very distressed to know that his well being is being compromised for financial, 'political' or production reasons.

    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  16. scooter

    scooter Gold Meritorious Patron

    If my surmising is correct. this is the same young man who was left to look after my daughter and another one-year-old in the old Interne room in the org.

    He's a nice guy and should be looked after.

    He's the only one involved in my daughter's death who ever expressed remorse, and he of all people didn't need to as he was placed in a position he should never have been.

    If the C/S is saying his program must be done before seing a doctor, perhaps the C/S should be reminded of HCOB "Physically Ill PCs and Pre-OTs" - this reference alone should be enough to get my young friend ordered to the doctors.

    I will be very pissed if something bad happens here.
  17. Carmel

    Carmel Crusader

    Yep, and the other ref being HCOB "Dianetics and Illness".
  18. Human Again

    Human Again Silver Meritorious Patron

    How about we call OSA now and make sure Vicki knows about this situation and gets this guy to a doctor. Even if her motivation is to avoid a potential Legal/PR situation who cares?

    I'll call if need be. I'll just need to find the phone number. I do not know who this guy is and perhaps it's better from someone who knows him but I am willing to do it if no one else does.

  19. Feral

    Feral Rogue male

    Tasch, this 'was' the call.:yes:
  20. Human Again

    Human Again Silver Meritorious Patron

    How closely do they watch the board, Feral?

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