Is the Sun Conscious?

Discussion in 'Human Potential, Self Discovery' started by Mimsey Borogrove, Nov 28, 2018.

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  1. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Oh, stop rolling your eyes. That's what I did when I ran across the below video. But as I listened to it, it was rather different than I expected. It starts out with the history of the belief of the sun being conscious for many, many centuries until rather recently, a couple hundred years ago, as the mechanistic view of the universe took hold. This shift in view was the death knell of spirituality etc., but has run afoul of this one important unsolvable problem: Science can not explain consciousness.

    It can't and hasn't. No part of the brain has come forth from behind the curtain, like the great and powerful Oz. Quantum mechanics and the effect of the observer on the result only makes things worse.

    He launches into the aspect of living things as "self organizing systems" While plants, animals fish, bacteria etc. are all self organizing, are other things also self organizing? Crystals are, for instance. But so are planets, suns, galaxies.

    While he wonders if the sun is conscious, what would it think about, which is an interesting question - our bodies have electrical field, as does the sun. It puts out heat, and so do we. It reacts to external stimuli and so do we. There are many parallels between the things we acknowledge as conscious and the sun.

    How does the sun know what is going on in the solar system? How does it react to the changes in orbits of it's planets? There is an electrical connection between the sun and the planets, Cassini proved the existence of one between the Sun and Saturn. Is it conscious of these changes or merely reacting to them?

    Lately, science has been finding big changes in the weather on other planets - Venus is slowing it's rotation - there are changes in Jupiter, Saturn and Uranus's weather patterns that have been stable for as long as we could observe them. The red spot is fading and another being born. These changes have not been caused SUVs, and if they are happening throughout the planetary system, perhaps ours is likewise caused by this impending solar minimum?

    Another question - if the sun is conscious, where is it's memories? If it has any. This begs an another mega failure of science - were are memories stored? For hundreds of years they have been trying to prove they are in the brain, yet.... no cigar. The brain is more like a TV receiver or radio. Are there collective memories? Memories that we all share? Shades of the Archetypes.

    In the holographic universe, which he doesn't discuss, we are perceiving a portion of a holographic whole, and as we age we are less able to tune in, connect as it were as the brain withers, and we lose touch with reality.

    My big question is this: Why does it have to be conscious to be self organizing? The ocean is self organizing system - it has currents, waves, gyres, etc. The water flows around the planet in long complicated snake like currents, etc. which I suppose could all stem from the basic properties of water, temperature, gravity.

    The sea has long been alive in a sense, at times a cruel mistress, the stuff of poetry and gods from Neptune to Poseidon, so perhaps it is alive? It changes colors like a chameleon, it's moody... You see? Perhaps we grant it life when it has none? Perhaps it is sly, and really alien in how it lives, thinks, acts, it's awareness hidden to most of to us.

    My friend, Fred, said there are alien beings that live amongst us. I said "WhAAAt??" "Yes," he replied. "Take dust bunnies. Where do they come from? Extension chords - they constantly tangle themselves up like snakes. They are alien life forms." In a sense, it is the animistic viewpoint of life.

    There is more to this than meets the eye - why do things take a certain form? DNA is really a protein map, but perhaps there is more - a field perhaps, that is the organizing force that the body fills out in a sense. For all this worship of genes, we don't really know how the DNA combining in a sperm and egg result in you, dear reader, do we? We might know gene X gave Hubbard red hair, but how does it make an eye? Or any of the other complex parts of the body. Perhaps there is more...

    There is a certain amount of hubris to think this is an impossibility. If you consider that God has created everything we know, why would you believe he remotely cares about what we think? Do? Our sins? How do you know he thinks on any concepts we can understand? If you look at life as an extension of his thought process, we know very little indeed of how he views life, or the material universe which he created.

    The universe is estimated to consist of 200 billion to 2 trillion galaxies. If God created that, and some of us struggle parking a car? Then God truly thinks on other terms than we do. Who is to say the sun and stars aren't his children? Aren't conscious and controlling this planets in a dance he created? To a large extent we know / understand about as much about consciousness as a dog knows about the internet.

    Our lives are anything but a breeze. Yes, some few of us live in luxury, but the rest - misery. Does that indicate a caring god? Or is and indication his/her/it's thought processes are truly alien?

    Anyway, scoff away, as you are wont to do, those who wish to, but those interested in an illuminating look at how life may not be the simply material/mechanistic universe we have been lead to believe, this is an interesting tangent of speculation.

    Mimsey

     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  2. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Music to read the above post with:









     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
  3. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    If the Sun has bipolar disorder or schizophrenia then what should we do for the Sun?

    Also, I have been worried about the rocks in my front yard and the street pavement in front of my house.
    :D

    Should we be trying to do mental treatment for planet Saturn? (one example)

    And, my drought tolerant plants (new landscape) are not talking to me!

    The Moon will not communicate with me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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  4. strativarius

    strativarius Comfortably Numb

    "Is the sun conscious?" asks Mimsey. "Do some people have too much free time on their hands?" asks Stratty. :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2018
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  5. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    Saturn is definitely suffering from NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). I mean, those rings ...
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  6. Dulloldfart

    Dulloldfart Squirrel Extraordinaire

    I'm not answering your primary question, but articles like this from Miles Mathis on charge flux cycling through the planets and the sun is fascinating: The Cause of the Solar Cycle

    I'll comment on your question. What would it mean for the sun -- or in fact any traditionally inanimate object -- to be conscious? In my opinion, if the "thing" can do at will nothing to change anything beyond its own "thoughts" the concept of consciousness or self-awareness etc is meaningless.

    Paul
     
  7. Helena Handbasket

    Helena Handbasket Gold Meritorious Patron

    We'll never find out what part of the brain is responsible for consciousness because NO part of the brain is responsible for consciousness -- nor is any other organ.

    Long before there was a (solid) physical universe as we know it, there was consciousness. It was consciousness that built the physical universe (and everything in it such as bodies and brains).


    In theory, the sun CAN be conscious, but it's probably a low-level consciousness such as you might find in an elephant. Because if a conscious something were looking to occupy something, there are a lot more interesting things than being a sun, which does the same thing day after day, and cannot change any part of that.

    Helena
     
  8. George Layton

    George Layton Silver Meritorious Patron

    Yes the Sun is Conscious because Humans are the center of the universe.
     
  9. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Ummm.... It's probably not meaningless to the "thing."

    Also there could be influences that were not detectable, or traceable, by whomever it is that was passing judgement.

    In any event, we're still left with the question of how consciousness comes from mindless matter.

    Would that not suggest that some primordial form of consciousness - a seed of consciousness at least - exists in elementary quanta?
     
  10. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Just curious. I watched this video. How many who have responded have also watched it?
     
  11. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    .

    The sun is a SJW (Sun Justice Warrior) that is resisting evil white people by turning them into people of color.

    I am voting for the sun in the 2020 election. Its the sun's time, I'm with her him it.

    People, be sure to stop by the gift store and pick up your MASA hat!! (make american sunny again).


    ps: Are people actually seriously discussing if the sun has consciousness? This is actually a subject people are confused about? LOL
     
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  12. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Unless someone is torturing the English language and RE-DEFINING the word "conscious" why would anyone need to watch a video to know the answer?

    What if there was a video that puzzled over whether rocks are really animals. Do we need to see a video about that before knowing the answer? LOL

    Let's ask you a question now. Do you think that the sun is conscious? If so, define conscious.
     
  13. DagwoodGum

    DagwoodGum Scientology - A Living Quicksand of Souls

    There is no answer to such a question.
    How would anyone sane pretend to know the answer to such a question unless they were just making a joke of it.
    Only someone like LRH would pretend to know the real truth but would only tell you that you need to spend $500,000 on bullshit auditing in order to find out.
    Or was it a trick question to expose the self deluded and see if they claimed certainty on such a matter?
     
  14. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Curiosity?
     
  15. Veda

    Veda Sponsor

    Not arguing about it.
     
  16. pineapple

    pineapple Patron Meritorious

    Yes, MASA!
     
  17. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    It's not a trick question - the video skims over part of his research into morphic fields. See, there is this odd phenonium that makes one wonder if there is shared memory. In testing rats with certain mazes, they find the offspring of the rats tend to do the mazes quicker that the original rat. But more than that, other rats in different laboratories also tend to do the same maze quicker. How is that possible? Is it a memory that is shared collectively by all rats? Or are the rats formed by the same morphic field, and when you affect the field in one, it affects them all?

    In the Sketchup drawing program, there is a component. If you make copies of the component, lets say fence posts for example, when you modify one, the others are also modified. The computer has the original in memory, and in altering it, it alters the others similarly. The shared memory Sheldrake discusses is a similar order concept. This is also similar to Jung's collective unconsciousness theory. If one accepts Jung's hypothesis, then there must be a collective memory for the collective unconsciousness theory to function.

    "Morphic resonance is a process whereby self-organising systems inherit a memory from previous similar systems. In its most general formulation, morphic resonance means that the so-called laws of nature are more like habits. The hypothesis of morphic resonance also leads to a radically new interpretation of memory storage in the brain and of biological inheritance. Memory need not be stored in material traces inside brains, which are more like TV receivers than video recorders, tuning into influences from the past. And biological inheritance need not all be coded in the genes, or in epigenetic modifications of the genes; much of it depends on morphic resonance from previous members of the species. Thus each individual inherits a collective memory from past members of the species, and also contributes to the collective memory, affecting other members of the species in the future." https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance

    So, if we infer that to the sun, HH's Solar Justice Warrior, it could be possible all suns operating in a similar basis. Possibly there are various sun morphic fields, say one for brown dwarfs, another for red giants, etc. for the 7 star types on the main sequence.

    So this boils down to the possibility, that because the sun a self organizing system, following the collective memory concept as above, it could have some order of consciousness.

    Or something like that.

    Mimsey

    EDIT - Memo to HH. Re: your solar justice warrior - perhaps when we piss off the sun, he/she/it sends a Coronal Mass ejection our way which messes with the Magnetosphere, affecting the weather, I.E. raining on our parade. :duck:
     
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  18. programmer_guy

    programmer_guy True Ex-Scientologist

    Last edited: Nov 29, 2018
  19. Mimsey Borogrove

    Mimsey Borogrove Crusader

    Seriously - you need to get out of the house more, and look up. It's still there waiting to see your smiling face. Just look up and pray to it like Jeff Sessions is doing - I'm sure it will answer you …:yay: Poor Wilbur Ross - he is having a senior moment with the solar eclipse goggles.:redface:

    [​IMG]
     
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  20. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Sure, curiosity is a beautiful thing. That is assuredly why Descartes ranked it as the FIRST of all the passions. . .

    French philosopher, mathematician, scientist, and writer René Descartes (1596–1650) described wonder as one of the primary emotions because he claimed that emotions, in general, are reactions to unexpected phenomena. He noted that when people first encounter a surprising or new object, "... this makes us wonder and be astonished at it". Descartes, therefore, propounded that "Wonder is the first of all the passions." (Descartes The Passions of the Soul Article 53.)

    There is much more Descartes explained about "the passions" which is "wonderful". .
     
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