Just exactly how OT was Ron the OT?

Discussion in 'L Ron Hubbard' started by HelluvaHoax!, Dec 10, 2009.

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  1. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Operating Thetan is defined as: "knowing and willing cause over life, thought, matter, energy, space and time". So how OT was L. Ron Hubbard, the universe's #1 OT?

    First things first. Did Ron actually evidence to anyone in a reliable scientific way that HE himself was an Operating Thetan? Did he demonstrate that he could operate exterior from the body with perception? Did he show anyone his presser and tractor beams? Did he heal bodies, his own or others, with turning black energy white or any other ways? Did he manifest whole track recall that enabled him to find billions of buried treasure? Did he use his whole track recall to patent life-saving medical technology? Did he use past-life intergalactic knowledge to eliminate disease, environmental problems, automobile pollution, poverty or world hunger? Did he show engineers how to build faster and more fuel-efficient passenger vehicles, public transportation or airplanes?Did he show his mind technology healing the sick or curing the insane? Did he ever have one OT tested by an impartial fact-finding study (i.e. scientific authentication)? Did he use his why-finding, debug, correction, qual or recovery technology to recover the vast majority of Scientologists who had left Scientology?

    It is clear that he did not do any of these things. Yet, one might still conclude that Ron did in fact possess these OT capabilities yet CHOSE to not reveal them directly. Assuming that could (in theory) be true, there is another way to observe OT phenomena and behavior and that is by simply looking at Ron's personal & professional life....

    So, how OT was his personal & professional existence?

    Reader's Warning: This is a cold-blooded and factual account of Ron's less-than-OT life....at least a few key points to give you the idea that besides not SHOWING his OT abilities, neither did he USE his OT abilities in his own life to be cause on his Dynamics, because.....

    *** His own wife and #2 OT on the planet, Mary Sue Hubbard, went to prison.
    *** He spent much of his last two decades on earth hiding from authorities.
    *** He failed to cure his own body many times and died as an ordinary mortal.
    *** He used force, threats, cruelty and violence to gain obedience from Scientologists.
    *** He regularly declared or fair gamed moral, honest people who exposed his lies or crimes.
    *** His own OT sons turned against him. One even met tragic death by suicide/murder.
    *** He lied about his "doctor & nuclear physicist" credentials and healing his war injuries and never admitted it.
    *** He played shell games with parishioner millions, taking it personally and lying to them about it.
    *** He failed to Clear any world, continent, country, city, town, street or even block.
    *** He failed to provide his own elite Sea Organization members with even poverty levels of food, sleep, medical care, vacations, retirement benefits and pay.
    *** He was unable to bring all of the worldwide Scientology org staff members up to even minimum wage or to advance them to his upper OT levels.
    *** He failed to create broad acceptance of Scientology in any one culture, government or country.
    *** He failed to prove that Scientology worked or even attempt to do so under scientific conditions.
    *** He failed to make his salvation technology affordable to more than 99% of the world's population.
    *** He was not able to appear publicly despite his wish to clear his legal problems and do so.
    *** He was not able to have his screenplays or books become successful movies although he tried.
    *** He was not able to reach "best seller" status on his fiction books without cheating and having wealthy scientologists help him trick the system by buying large volumes.
    *** He was unable to maintain a healthy body weight, stop smoking or get proper dental care for rotting teeth.
    *** He was not able to conduct his operations transparently and honestly but instead resorted to secret illegal tactics, intimidation, fair game and other criminal means to get what he wanted.
    *** He was unable to keep industrious, energetic people, honest people as his friends and staff; the vast majority of which were wrong-targeted as the "why" for a problem which Hubbard himself created; they then blew, were declared, fair-gamed or otherwise turned into enemies.
    *** He was unable to prevent himself or his own organization from committing felonies for which it's facilities were raided by the FBI with his top management indicted and imprisoned.
    *** He was unable to admit that he was in charge of Scientology, instead lying and using "advices" and other covert methods to avoid adding to his already overwhelming liabilities.
    *** He was not able to recognize, acknowledge & compensate when others created technology that advanced Scientology.
    *** He was unable to receive or benefit by any personal, technical advice or other constructive criticisms.
    *** He was unable to speak truthfully about his case and human condition, instead opting to pretend to be OT.

    So, what does it all mean? It means nothing...except this: OT's have the ability to consider they are OT at which moment they become OT. Thus you can BE an OT. But that's all. Be.

    Ron is in outer space right now working out the tech of how you can DO what an OT is supposed to be able to do and to have what an OT is supposed to be able to have. Just be happy that it only costs 1/3 of a million dollars to get 1/3 of the way to OT!
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  2. dontscamme

    dontscamme Patron Meritorious

    HH, your post should be required reading for all "OTs," but of course they wouldn't want to confront all this stuff, now, would they? :no:
  3. Kathy (ImOut)

    Kathy (ImOut) Gold Meritorious Patron

    Very true, Helluva!

    Even the "great" LRH didn't have OT abilities.

    And I never fully understood "you have to be OT to go OT". If that's the case, why spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars? Just so you can have a cert that says you're OT. I personally was far more OT before Scn than I was while in. My OTness was squashed by Scn.
  4. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  5. dchoiceisalwaysrs

    dchoiceisalwaysrs Gold Meritorious Patron

    Standards oh hidden standards.

    Who authorized you to have an opinion let alone a standard HH?

    The only standard allowed is fiction. Unless you are some kind of WOG, then truth is allowable.

    KFW issue one
  6. Moonchild

    Moonchild Patron with Honors

    Ron the OT's OT.

    Seems like this to me: I believe many on this board will have read about how the Hubster raved about BTs, demons, whatever in the closing chapter of his life. If these reports are accurate, they would seem to support the view that His Royal Ron-ness did, in fact, believe in the truth of BTs etc.

    That being so: the speculation reappears...was he a charlatan or a nut?

    Had he been simply the former, had the 'Upper level' material just been a bunch of cobblers designed to ensnare whoever would buy it, I wonder why he himself would remain so affected by it?

    To me, it seems more likely that the latter is closer to the truth. In his mind, BTs were, in fact, for real...unfortunately for him he seems to have been unable to deal with them, within his own perception.

    Therefore, the conclusion seems ineluctable that Ron, the master of Life and Knowledge had, in fact, feet of clay, to say the least...whatever way you look at it.
  7. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Hey Moonchild!

    I'd say it's a safe bet to say he was a...nutty charlatan. :D
  8. Moonchild

    Moonchild Patron with Honors

  9. Moonchild

    Moonchild Patron with Honors

    Yes, you've probably put the shell around the nut there...oh god, punning again :duh:
  10. BlackCatTango

    BlackCatTango Patron


    Your list reads like a partial list of why I left scientology. It's good to see it put out there in the form of a list.

    Hubbard really spun the myth of OT around those of us who wanted to believe in it. But we sure made a lot of excuses as to why people including Hubbard didn't demonstrate those abilities.

    I became more "OT" at the beginniing of my time in scn because scn really validated a lot of what I wanted to believe. But in retrospect I see that scn quashed much of the heightened awareness and ability by all the rules and the do's and don'ts that we were expected to follow as good pcs & members........ I expected that I would understand or have those abilities for real on the OT levels..... It was a subtle game of inval and eval that was played on those of us that weren't paying our way up the Bridge.

    Even those that were going up the Bridge, I think were invalidated enough to believe that they could only experience OT by getting the auditing to achieve it. As for what Hubbard had or didn't have, knew or didn't know and just played us, I am still trying to discern.....that is, if it's even relevant. I think that we all set our own standards as to what we believed OT was. We may not be able to achieve it in this lifetime but it doesn't hurt to work towards higher standards of awareness and ability. It's just a tough road to follow when you don't get the validation or support.

    I now think Hubbard worked against himself by running, hiding from his critics and perhaps the reason we can now see that he wasn't as OT as he wanted us to think....but just good at perpetuating the myths.
  11. liberated

    liberated Patron

    Helluva list from Helluvahoax! :yes:

    Though I've never been a Scientologist, I've connected with other faiths...Christianity, Quakerism and most recently Buddhism. All have had some merit for me, all have had some drawbacks. None provided all the 'answers'. None was 'perfect'.

    But none have touched me as deeply as the words spoken by the child of a friend of mine some years ago.
    I asked this child what he wanted for his birthday and he thought about it for a moment and replied with a big grin: "To be happy."

    Wise soul, this child.
    I glanced at the last line of Helluvahoax's list and the words jumped out at me " just be happy...". Taken out of context, but still resonated with me.

    I've tried to have faith in organized religion, tried to understand Scientology, tried to accept the loss of my (Sea Org) friend, tried and tried to make sense of everything...but maybe it really is that simple after all...just be happy.

    Easier said than done, but a worthwhile goal.

  12. GoNuclear

    GoNuclear Gold Meritorious Patron

    Ron's oatee abilities

    Ron's particular OT powerz were on the order of pill popping, rum swigging, wife beating, friend cheating, check bouncing, ass wobbling, race hating, goat bombing ... not to mention being a homophobic coke sniffing, chain smoking, salad quizing, warrant dodging no good con man ... as that song "Make Money, Make More Money" goes by the El Queso Allstars goes.

    Let's face it, you WISH you could lie as well as Ron and have people hypnotically believe your bullshit, so you, too, could start your own cult and make a few zillion bucks at it, with the fringe benefit of having a bunch of teenaged girls tend to your every need including constantly following you around with an ashtray. Personally, I don't think I could ever do what Ron did ... once I aquired a following of groupies I think I would spend too much time taking advantage of them to keep banging out asshole policy letters like KSW.

  13. Mystic

    Mystic Banned

    1. No such thing as an "OT".
    2. Lips Hubbard wasn't even a spiritual being like thee and me.
    3. Lips Hubbard was a "tulpa", an apparition machination from the lower-psychic darkness (purgatory, between lives, etc.)
    4. Lips Hubbard was an abject coward.
    5. Read Madman or Messiah.
  14. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    Hey liberated! I liked the sweet simplicity of your post very much!

    So many things to be happy about with beauty surrounding us everywhere--some hidden in front of our eyes waiting to be discovered. Even tiny things, brief moments....

    Hmmmmm, you can be happy that you didn't spend a half million dollars and half your life in Scientology! lol

    Just so you don't feel like you missed anything, let me see if I can sum up the scientology experience for you. Here ya go, my friend....

    Let's imagine for a moment that you are allergic to certain kinds of dust or dirt. You somehow find and get an appointment with a legendary doctor who has cured other allergy sufferers like yourself. You wait a very long time to see him and pay a vast fortune for one visit. At that visit he fits you with a patented pair of eyeglasses that allows you to see dirt or dust EVERYWHERE you look.

    The special lenses cut out all the color but it is worth it because you have hope that your suffering will end. The first few weeks it changes your life because you can keep your home and possessions free of the irritants that plagued you. But one day you try to take the glasses off and they don't come off. You are stuck with them for the rest of your life. And now you can only see the world in black and white. You are forced to look at dirt and dust everywhere and can no longer see the colorful beauty of autumn leaves, flowers or the brilliant hues in an impressionist masterpiece. Peoples' faces look drained and lifeless. And.....and there is DUST everywhere you look. You can only see dust. You become obsessed with dust and cleaning it up. YOu are no longer searching life for beauty and fun and happiness---you are on an eternal DustQuest!

    Welcome to Scientology, where you only look for things to handle and try to handle them using the tech. Everything in life needs to be handled or moved up to the next condition. All production needs to be fixed and improved. Your case is endlessly in need of "cleaning up". You are trying to CLEAN THE PLANET. :D But the planet does not clean--it is comprised of dust and dirt so that idea is quite impossibly silly! No happiness to see here, folks, move along.

    There are just too many things in life that bring happiness. Maybe it's another thread....

    Thanks for your cool post! HH
  15. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    Cleaning a clean!!!

  16. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor


    i wish i still had one of my meters so I could smash it again in celebration of your post! lol
  17. I told you I was trouble

    I told you I was trouble Suspended animation

    I shall mail mine to you immediately.

  18. HelluvaHoax!

    HelluvaHoax! Gold Meritorious Sponsor

    hey dontscamme!

    yeah, that's the strange thing about OT powers...they only work when the OT uses tone 40 postulates, aka "positive postulates".

    and tone 40 postulates do not admit any possibility of not working.

    it used to be called "blind faith".
  19. Wisened One

    Wisened One Crusader

    THIS! WHAT HE SAID!! YESSSS!!! :goodposting: :clap: :clap: :clap:

    And I think I am in love with Zinji's and Hellufahoax's posts..:yes: :love8: :biglove:
  20. Moonchild

    Moonchild Patron with Honors

    Plus ca change....

    Overall it seems like a reworking of the old 'original sin' ploy. You're 'wrong' to start with and therefore must make amends. Step right in and sign up my dear.

    With the wisdom of hindsight, age and experience, it's as transparent as a glass of water; but when you're young and without the benefit of times around the block you're easy meat, no? Sometimes, easy meat even in your salad days....:duh:

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