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Discussion in 'MartyWorld' started by Boson Wog Stark, Jun 28, 2017.
Yer killin me!
If Alanzo could ever lay down his grudges against what he calls Anti Scientology Leaders, he would have a smidgen of credulity, to me. But he hasn't to date, and I perceive that as envy. Sour grapes. Same with Rathbun, but at least he's got a new car and a fakery.
I also think talking about yourself in third person is a little dissociative. I noticed he vehemently objected to the emotional episodes of Aftermath.
Another thought I have had is this- what will he do when/if COS goes away? I mean, there won't be critics to criticize, other people's original stories to paste on his notablog. Will he go to cat lover forums and scare everyone with hoot owl pictures? Smh.
Thanks for confirming. Who's the woman who Tony Ortega supposedly repeatedly went after? Was it Carmen Lewellyn?
Did her daughter commit suicide?
An ack for Alanzo. Sure here we go!
Shortly after Alanzo has left ESMB, he has written an article on his former blog which I found extraordinary.
Contrary to what LRH wrote on the subject, Alanzo concluded in essence "the main source of criticism is not overts and withholds. It is unmet expectations".
By extension, I also found that every upset in life (arc break) is caused by an unfulfilled expectation. Knowing this fact can be very helpful. For example, one would get upset. Certainly one expected something which didn't materialise. Just lower your expectancies and you be happier
It is also useful in conducting business. Just make very clear what the other party would get. Or equally important, what they would NOT get. I use that daily since years with very good results.
Below in blue is the remarkable writing as originally posted by Alanzo. Three thumbs up for Alanzo!!!
Criticism and Overts
I was talking to an ex-Scientologist, one who has undergone extensive security checking in L Ron Hubbard’s Scientology, as I have. He said something to me that was quite profound. He said it in the context of a discussion about Buddhism’s First Noble Truth, widely translated in English as “All life is suffering.”
We had been discussing this for a while. My take on this is that I do not agree with it. While there certainly is suffering in life, there is also a tremendous amount of pleasure. I simply do not agree that “All Life is Suffering”. We were discussing the different translations of “suffering” and the many related concepts that Buddhists have used to explain this principle for 2500 years and over so many different languages and cultures.
That’s when he said it.
He said, “Suffering comes from expectations.”
That hit me like a stroke of lightening. He went on, “For example, you expect your father to be a certain way, and when he is not that way, it causes all kinds of conflicts, arguing, criticism, hostility and general suffering in life.” I sat and thought about that.
Here’s the definition from The Free Online Dictionary
ex·pect ( k-sp kt )
1.a. To look forward to the probable occurrence or appearance of: expecting a telephone call; b. To consider likely or certain: expect to see them soon.
2.To consider reasonable or due: We expect an apology.
3. To consider obligatory; require: The school expects its pupils to be on time.
4. Informal To presume; suppose
1. the act or state of expecting or the state of being expected
2. (usually plural) something looked forward to, whether feared or hoped for
3. an attitude of expectancy or hope; anticipation to regard something with expectation
I see expectations now as the silent causal genesis of so much human perception. An expectation will sit there in the mind as an unspoken premise from which we view what we experience. When we look at things, we expect to see it. Often a person is not even aware that he has an expectation for what he is viewing, and whether what he is viewing is meeting that expectation. I think that unmet expectations most often express themselves as frustration, hostility, and criticism.
This is when I started thinking about Scientology and Hubbard’s “technology” for the “true” cause of criticism.
…”In view of these mechanisms, when the burden became too great man was driven to another mechanism—the effort to lessen the size and pressure of the overt. He or she could only do this by attempting to reduce the size and repute of the terminal. Hence, not-isness. Hence when a man or a woman has done an overt act there usually follows an effort to reduce the goodness or importance of the target of the overt. Hence the husband who betrays his wife must then state that the wife was no good in some way. Thus the wife who betrayed her husband had to reduce the husband to reduce the overt. This works on all dynamics. In this light most criticism is justification of having done an overt.’
“This does not say that all things are right and that no criticism anywhere is ever merited. Man is not happy. He is faced with total destruction unless we toughen up our postulates. And the overt act mechanism is simply a sordid game condition man has slipped into without knowing where he was going. So there are rightnesses and wrongnesses in conduct and society and life at large, but random, carping 1.1 criticism when not borne out in fact is only an effort to reduce the size of the target of the overt so that one can live (he hopes) with the overt. Of course to criticise unjustly and lower repute is itself an overt act and so this mechanism is not in fact workable.“… –L Ron Hubbard Justification” HCO BULLETIN OF 21 JANUARY AD10
“Show me any person who is critical of us and I’ll show you crimes and intended crimes that would stand a magistrate’s hair on end.” – L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 4 April 1965
“Now, get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology, we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts.“– L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Bulletin, 5 November 1967, “Critics of Scientology”
While there may be one or two instances when a criticism stems from having committed overts to something, and the person feels he has to reduce the target of the overt to feel better about what he has done, I believe that this is an extremely rare occurrence in human behavior. Even when overts are relevant, discussing what the critic expected to experience is much more productive than continually asking the critic, “What are your crimes?” or ignoring the criticism and proceeding as if the person is a criminal, as Hubbard tells Scientologists to do. This Hubbard “tech” demonizes all criticism, and the critics who express it, and leaves the unmet expectation completely unaddressed.
While there can be many sources, or causes, to any one thing, and NOT just a “single source”, I now see very clearly that the main source of criticism is not overts and withholds. It is unmet expectations. Look at the newly energized Independent Scientologist movement and their continual target of criticism: David Miscavige. Is that river of criticism caused by their own overts on David Miscavige? Or is it based upon the expectations Independent Scientologists have for a leader of the Church of Scientology that Miscavige so dismally and continually violates?
A better question to ask the Scientology critic, or an independent Scientologist, is “When it comes to the criticism of _________, what expectations did you have that ________ did not live up to?” And then, of course, asking “Where did you get those expectations?” would also be very revelatory to one and all.
Ask those questions, and you will finally get somewhere. Leave the critic’s expectations ignored and unaddressed, while accusing these people of being low-toned criminals instead, and you will get what the Church has today – a world full of critics and decades of escalating and unchecked brutality and criminality on the part of the Church of Scientology.
As Hubbard taught, operating on a wrong why will make things worse. Even though Hubbard’s view of the causes of criticism permeates the mindset of Scientologists, it is important to question this fundamental principle that Hubbard built into the technology and philosophy of Scientology.
Was he manipulating Scientologists for his own ends, or was he just wrong?
I don't know. I try not to get involved in that since it is not exposing scientology scam. Interesting that Alanzo's first sentence is " a lot of exscientologists", what is a lot, one, or two or hundreds, LOL
This new ESMB system does not allow me to quote things properly since I'm on Windows 7, what a pain in the butt.
You mentioned this statement:
"Contrary to what LRH wrote on the subject, Alanzo concluded in essence "the main source of criticism is not overts and withholds. It is unmet expectations"."
What Alanzo wrote is actually another way of saying what Hubbard wrote in KSW which is "the only thing thing you can be upbraided for is no results".
And he said further let them quit fast!
In the immortal words of Jason Beghe, show me a muther fucking clear?
In the recent you tube interview with Chris Shelton and Leah Farrow
Never once did Chris or Leah discuss Clear or OT. Only saving the planet.
Major flunk Chris Shelton. The whole purpose of saving the planet is to go clear and then OT, why didn't you ask those questions of Leah?
How many staff on the Freewinds were Clear, how many OT? Did they have qualities and abilities of being Clear and/or OT? Was there proof of people being clear and/or OT or was it just something you believed they were?
The whole concept of clear and then OT and clearing the planet are but abstract, existing in the mind but not concrete.
Speaking of the gag orders - what ever happened to Ray Jeffrey, the attorney Monique Rathbun hired and fired through the alleged I/C of her husband - Mark "Marty" Rathbun?
He never got paid and just dropped the whole thing?????? Somehow that makes no sense.
I was following this because I was very curious how he would handle it.
I wonder if Attorney Ray Jeffrey got paid on the side by the cult and then quietly faded away hoping no one would notice.
I mean - it IS Scientology....and nothing is impossible.
This would make the most sense to me.
Scientology attorney's have to figure out ways to SCARE and deter other Attorney's from taking Scientology cases on a contingencies and this would be the way to do it.
GAG the attorney after a "smoke and mirrors" show of pretending to not pay them after dropping the case after pretending not to pay off and gag a high ranking official - Marty Rathbun - who mysteriously turned on his friends and is "Friends with COB" again...
is making high quality videos of other Scientology critics....
One after the other....
Of ex Scientology critics and friends who helped him get out and stay out ....
and then throwing them under the proverbial bus and running over them....
This is a product of Scientology Media Productions too....in my opinion.
This has been discussed here: http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/...ray-jeffrey-attorney-for-marty-rathbun.44489/
That did not look like much of a discussion. Why all the HE&R?? I don't get it. It is perfectly logical and I would not blame Ray Jeffrey to take the money and not say anything. The guy has to eat.
That is the game of Scientology - gag orders to silence those that can do the most harm to the scam exposing Scientology for what it really is - a criminal organization that will stop at nothing to hurt others so the leader can live a nice life and play his sick little game of controlling people.
It seems he doesn’t “do” guest posters so one would logically assume he’s the originator of everything on the site. Just seems a bit hypocritical since many in that “tribe” slam Tony Ortega for doing the same, albeit usually tongue-in-cheek!
It is interesting to me that with all the allegations against Paul Haggis, other things that've since been discussed at the various blogs & sites plus even Mike Rinder’s recent interview with the JW Critic (where they discussed Marty & Mike’s willingness to talk to him...) there’s been absolute radio silence at Marty’s blog. He’s even stopped publishing comments (& you KNOW his queue has at least 20-30 more coming from Oracle!)!
Curious... very curious, indeed!
Maybe David Miscavige has figured out bringing Scientologists to Marty's blog is too dangerous... the truth about Scientology lurks everywhere on that blog. It helped me get out of Scientology and I am grateful to Marty Rathbun for helping me.
I will use his blog to get others out now.
Until the hush money is given to Marty in exchange for removing it for eternity
But then again L Ron Hubbard has no "tech" on how to stop mirroring blogs on the internet.
So I am set.
. . .
Marty posted 21 new videos on YouTube a day ago.
His insights, if you can call 'em that, about season two.
Been a busy boy.
But where do you go to get out of Marty's cult?
I listened to a few of his vids. For me, I don't care if scientology is a religion or not and I don't think that is the battle to be won. For the truth is that scientology is supposed to produce a clear and then OT, and there are none and never will be any. In the few vids I watched of Marty's new vids, he never mentioned what scientologists truely believe which is that they can go clear and then OT.
If there is a Aftermath 3, I'd wish they would really examine what scientologists believe which is going clear and then OT, and point out the founder even said he failed and wasn't coming back.
Is Marty ever going to talk about that, the state of clear and OT? Or is he going to continue to character assassinate?
Attack never defend?
Scn/Co$/OSA - the MO IS character assassination. SOP. That is a dead give-a-way that scn/co$ has nothing of value to offer. Deflection. Deception. Magicians tricks. Always attack, never defend. That lrh knew, and dm figured it out - there is a fool born every minute. Separate the fools from their money, that is the end game. When the experience wisens them up, attack - character assassination, intimidate into silence and fear.
I love it when an ex starts roaring like a lion. Good Kitty Big Teeth. Bite 'em back, only harder.
So here's my armchair 25¢ analysis of what I think is happening...
Marty's rapidly devolving as a result of his having been unable to pull free of the gravitational field of Scientology.
It is destroying him, as evidenced by his increasingly unhinged, fictional videos.
For one of the few times in his life that he experienced feeling important; commanding both fear and respect, was as "Inspector General" - Miscavige's henchman, and the videos give him the opportunity to re-visit, if only briefly, his former altitudinous persona.
Within the orbit of Scientology Marty once had something Scientologists hold very precious, called "altitude."
A big step in the onion peeling - the deconstruction of Scientology, is recognizing that "altitude" is a key piece of the bullshit we bought into.
But I suspect that all along, Marty has longed for the adulation of those heady days, yet is deeply conflicted; he understands all too well what Mike and Leah have achieved...without him. Impotence gives way to rage.
Unable to reconcile his failure to achieve escape velocity from Scientology combined with the public knowledge Marty's dependence upon the financial largesse of former friends like Karen De La Carriere, whom he now despises precisely because of the kindness, generosity and compassion she exhibited towards him.
Marty is now surrounded by a special subset of Scientology; an insane clown posse who stroke his ego and cheer him on to...God only knows...
Why do Scientologists think they're on the edge of glory when in reality they're re-entering Scientology's toxic atmosphere at terminal velocity?
But, really... how the hell should I know what this schmuck is doing?